Weber air cleaners

@bosswrench posted:

Doug, I'm sorry you aren't closer to Carson City, NV- we have some mutual interests. Yes- I did start with Corvair big-valve 140s and sawed the log intakes off. Then welded stubs on to accept Webers. Also pulled the exhaust tubes and slant-bored new holes for curved tubes without the notch in them for pushrod clearance. I built maybe 6 or 7 pairs of these things for friends in the SF Bay Area. before the supply of Weber 3-bbls dried up. We autocrossed and a few ran them at Sears Point raceway with some success.

Then I bought the Pantera for my wife and we both started autocrossing that against Corvettes,Tigers and Lotus Europas. Good times.

I saw the Weber modification as just a bolt on to the stock intake log. I had headers on mine. I thought it just lacked cubic inches and was thinking about a Corveight conversion.

I had a pair of Offe intake manifolds that you had to weld on. I never got up to welding aluminum well. I just sold those things a couple of years ago on ebay.

"Great minds think alike?"

It might cause a great risk of danger to the general public if you and I were closer together. Kind of like the "key master and the gate keeper" in Ghostbusters. You have to keep them separated.

Tom I think those bearings have two holes in the cover plates on them to use a puller on?

As far as Autocross goes, I tried it one year. Probably '75 or '76. At the time shopping centers were still closed here on Sundays and the "club" would "rent" the parking lots of some in remote areas.

The cars that would do well were Porsches and Lotus and other go-cart like vehicles.

You had to get there early on Sunday morning and walk the course where they had laid it out with chalk and plastic cones.

By the time my turn would come, the chalk was gone and I could NEVER follow the course and was ALWAYS  a DNF.

They were always 8,000 rpm first and second gear screamers and I lost interest in getting beat up and beating up the car.

At some point, "facilities" just disappeared.

I can understand why drag racing is so popular. It's kind of like a bobsled run and you just have to keep from hitting the walls to get good times.

The only place left where you can LEGALLY go fast is at high speed events at race tracks like Pocono or Lime Rock. There are no drag strips left.  Even English Town  in NJ is gone.

NYS is getting smart now. They are installing video cameras along EVERY "Parkway". They realized that they do not have the manpower to patrol as necessary any more. Even I get pissed at getting passed by "bikes" going flat out in top gear at 14 or 15,000 rpm. Makes me feel like I got stuck in a revolving door. And they are like jet fighter planes in that you can't hear them coming until they zoom you.

Of course, just because the high speed track events were a lot of fun, the lawyers had to get involved in it and ruin it for all. The Trial Lawyers Association is very powerful here. They aren't happy unless everyone is miserable and need to hire an attorney to explain the track waiver form for them an notarize it.

Ian Flemming saw that coming decades ago when he renamed the Trial Lawyers Association, Specter. Even the Russians followed the pattern with Smersh.

This has been a great thread, but now I  think that I now am starting to know how much I don't know. Allot actually. Most of it.

If you get me.

I have shut up until now as I previously had blissful ignorance and blind optimism firmly on my side and was forging ahead without the burden of any knowledge of any type. As is my preferred approach to life...!

Confession time - this is how far I am down the IDE road . Please don't laugh. Or if you must, please leave the room.

48ida's are blinkin hard to find here. ( Au)  ((Had to steal these four off a Porsche parked at the local pub. Still got the gravel rash from when he took off. ))

Holman Moody built DeTomaso Weber manifolds or similar multi manifolds - forget it. Have not been able to find one. Be careful where you park.

Solution to reversion was to graft a cluster of these guys onto a Strip dominator manifold. - heaps of room in there for the vapor to sort itself out ,,,,,reversion , what reversion???

What could possibly go wrong ?

Here is the rough in on throttle linkage. Adaptor is definitely a work in progress.

The entire assembly is very high. Measures in at 270mm  from the intake valley base without trumpets. May have to cut a hole in the roof to fit it. Not.

( And yes - I have previously worked on Massy Ferguson tractors....! )

Now if this ever sees use in anger may well depend on the fear factor instilled from Bosswrench's molten carburetor stories!!

I am almost scared to press the post reply button....

Looks like a IDF series as mentioned above as one of the original sand cast units.

Here is the code on the other one. Looks like they were made in Italy.

Percy. Thanks for posting. Don't be afraid. No one here bites.

Those IDF's likely will bring some bucks here in the US if you choose to separate yourself from them. They are from an era before the use of personal computers so it is unlikely that any states DMV's would have a cross reference to the Porsche that they were stolen from now.

There are lots of "custom" intake manifolds made to mount multiple Italian carburetors still in existence here. They are almost entirely made for custom street rods, heavily chromed and largely trailered around from show to show.

Some need winches on the trailers to pull them on and off since most won't even idle the engine.

I'm not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg? The point of using IDA's on V8 engines is a plan to use independent runner manifolds. I'm not sure if the concept understood that reversion was going to be an issue, that the extent of the issue was not known or if it was thought that it could just be managed to the point of non-existence initially?

Certainly the existence of the Boss 302 dual Holley Dominator manifold suggests that there was a thought that reversion was not going to be any kind of an issue on a race car? In reality, that was/is just not so. The inside of the Boss's hood gets soaked with atomized fuel and there have been attempts to channel that fuel to a location in the engine compartment where it would not be a fire hazard.

IF you start to look at intake manifold designs that were built and heavily used on '60s race cars, you will start to see that there was thought put to how can you have IR manifold benefits and retain a common plenum at the same time.

Certainly my C60A dual four Holley manifold CLEARLY shows that hybrid design characteristics.

The point of the IDA's was simply that they were small, compact and lend themselves well enough to an intake manifold design that would permit each cylinder to have it's own individual carburetor and that their throttles could be located at the optimum length to the intake valve. Thought to be right around 4.5".

So to the non-induction engineering inclined folks it absolutely looks like you can create any kind of an Alien device and IT WILL WORK! I think that saying in this case, "a little knowledge is dangerous" is more then appropriate?

My original air cleaner post exposed a lot of interesting information and the fact that we are having fun with this old technology. I wonder if our grandchildren will tinker with the new technology. Maybe some can, but it's totally over my head.

Recently one of my friends bought a new Ferrari Roma. The day after taking delivery we insisted that he bring it over for us all to see.  Naturally we wanted to see the engine. After a few minutes he conceded that he didn't know how to pop the hood. He didn't have the manual with him.

My original post asked about running Webers without air cleaners. Inversion etc. came into the discussion.

So.....how much damage can I cause the motor by not using any air cleaner? Weber air cleaners look terrible. I've been doing it on and off for years, sometimes I run a 4brl Holly to clean the carbs. It runs perfect and blows no smoke. The motor was rebuilt for less HP to make it less angry about 5000 miles ago. Now it has 27000 total miles on it.

It's interesting how different the motor sounds when using the Holly. The motor has a mild lope with Holly, but not with Webers.

I still  have a lot of work to do on the  adaptor piece between the Weber's and the intake.  If I had a super smart son, some super cool  3d printer could be printing  one for me in metallic fiber.....!

Hang on ........ watch this space......!

Can we have a picture of the C60A dual four Holley manifold ?

Thanks!

Funny you should mention it, but my son works for 3D Systems that builds 3D printers of all sizes and abilities. Metal is easy, but very pricy.

Hey Tom , thanks . My son has a printer that could do it , I have been the problem in getting the basic layout sorted. The new tech is not the issue , its the old tech thinking driving it ! But it is the way to go on these difficult transition pieces.

Percy,

I'm impressed that your son has a printer capable of printing metal. All you need then is to build a computer model that can be printed. That's easy! not!

Look up evankuester.com for my son's work in 3D printing, metal and all. Maybe our sons have something in common.

Thanks Tom - will do. They must have got it from their mums....

What brilliant work your Son does - simply life changing .

@Percy posted:

Can we have a picture of the C60A dual four Holley manifold ?

Thanks!

Sure thing.

@Percy posted:

I still  have a lot of work to do on the  adaptor piece between the Weber's and the intake.  If I had a super smart son, some super cool  3d printer could be printing  one for me in metallic fiber.....!

Hang on ........ watch this space......!

Go look at Jiminglese.com. He already has an adapter made for your set up.

The installed pic above of the C60A Trans Am intake ^ is on my 68GT350. It is the original 68 302 block stroked to a 347.

This is the setup I'd do in a Mangusta.

@Percy posted:

This has been a great thread, but now I  think that I now am starting to know how much I don't know. Allot actually. Most of it.

If you get me.

I have shut up until now as I previously had blissful ignorance and blind optimism firmly on my side and was forging ahead without the burden of any knowledge of any type. As is my preferred approach to life...!

Confession time - this is how far I am down the IDE road . Please don't laugh. Or if you must, please leave the room.

48ida's are blinkin hard to find here. ( Au)  ((Had to steal these four off a Porsche parked at the local pub. Still got the gravel rash from when he took off. ))

Holman Moody built DeTomaso Weber manifolds or similar multi manifolds - forget it. Have not been able to find one. Be careful where you park.

Solution to reversion was to graft a cluster of these guys onto a Strip dominator manifold. - heaps of room in there for the vapor to sort itself out ,,,,,reversion , what reversion???

What could possibly go wrong ?

Here is the rough in on throttle linkage. Adaptor is definitely a work in progress.

The entire assembly is very high. Measures in at 270mm  from the intake valley base without trumpets. May have to cut a hole in the roof to fit it. Not.

( And yes - I have previously worked on Massy Ferguson tractors....! )

Now if this ever sees use in anger may well depend on the fear factor instilled from Bosswrench's molten carburetor stories!!

I am almost scared to press the post reply button....

The early "Webers" are serial numbered. The code 1/100 and 2/100 are the serial numbers on those carbs. Translated that means that those two are #1 and #2 of 100 made.

They should be in a museum. I know someone who MIGHT  know what they may have originally be intended for and will ask.

A couple more variants-

There used to be a popular right-angle adapter that mounted two 48 DCOE side-draft Webers on a 351-C 4bbl intake. No engine screen interference and easier tune than a 4-carb stack intake. Any reversion drips on the rocker covers, I suppose. The CA car I'm thinking of had outstanding drivability. Owner now passed away & the car disappeared 15 yrs ago.

An owner in OH has a 48 IDA Weber stack setup that features "dried-up" Webers with hidden EFI. To dry up Webers, you remove the venturis, aux venturis and block off all fuel feeds with fake braided stainless lines. The Webers then become very expensive throttle bodies, but the owner wanted the classic look and can afford it.  Haven't heard how it runs.

There are a few companies that make Weber look-a-like EFI throttle bodies. Here’s a pic of Borla’s 351C EFI intake. The injectors are hidden inside the throttle bodies.