I checked out a car for a new owner today and it is need of new rear wheel bearings or could they be loose? How much of a job is it to replace them? Is there a special tool needed?
Will
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They aren't a deal breaker. A weekend would do it.
There are some other components there that you have to look at while you are there.
The axles, the lower pivot, the ball joint. An average mechanic can handle it with little problem.
You need to borrow a rear axle socket, I'm sure someone here will lend you one.
There are some other components there that you have to look at while you are there.
The axles, the lower pivot, the ball joint. An average mechanic can handle it with little problem.
You need to borrow a rear axle socket, I'm sure someone here will lend you one.
If they are loose they need to be replaced. (can't tighten)
Could need new axle's if they are worn.
Could need new axle's if they are worn.
Will, I have an axle socket you can borrow. You should replace the axle nuts with new as they are only supposed to be used one time according to the service manual. If you want the socket give me a call.
Richard T.
Richard T.
I AM REBUILDING THE SUSPENSION COMPLETELY ON A 1974. IF YOU ARE GOING THROUGH THE TROUBLE TO TEAR EVERYTHING APART, YOU MAY AS WELL GET ALL NEW BUSHINGS, ETC. THE PROJECT WILL BE FAIRLY SIMPLE BUT YOU MAY NEED A PRESS FOR THE BUSHINGS (OR A JACK AND A PIECE OF OLD PIPE). ALSO BE AWARE THAT THE AXLE NUT ON THE DRIVER SIDE COMES OFF CLOCKWISE, WHILE THE ONE ON THE PASSENGER REMOVES COUNTER CLOCKWISE. IF YOU ARE NOT IN A HURRY I WILL TAKE PHOTOS OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS AND TAKE NOTES OF MY PROJECT, AND FORWARD THEM TO YOU FOR REFERENCE?
You are right about redoing the whole suspension system. Each piece I looked at was worn so I just kept going until I had replaced everything. As long as it ws apart I sand blasted everything and painted it. At least now when I head down the road I don't worry about what's going to break next. Good advice.
Richard T.
Richard T.
This link might be helpful http://www.panteraplace.com/page87.htm It is the step-by-step process I went through. The axel setup I used never went into production.
Mike
Mike
Richard, pls email me at wdemelo@cogeco.ca
When I did one of my axles recently for the second time, I took advise from Steve Wilkinson. He told me to use an extra wide inner bearing. He says that he has yet to have one go bad in the 7 years he has been doing this modification.
Use the extra wide bearing on the inside. The original inner bearing is 18mm wide, I used a double roller that is 30.2mm wide. This gives it more purchase on the shaft. You will have to get the spacer machined down to make room for it. This will give you an opportunity to clean up the mating surfaces of the spacer. You will find a burr where it has been chattering around next to the worn out bearing. Measure your axles for damage, they often need replacing after bearing failure.
The wider inner bearing is part no 3208B-2RSRTNG
The outer bearing is part no 6308DDU
Johnny
Use the extra wide bearing on the inside. The original inner bearing is 18mm wide, I used a double roller that is 30.2mm wide. This gives it more purchase on the shaft. You will have to get the spacer machined down to make room for it. This will give you an opportunity to clean up the mating surfaces of the spacer. You will find a burr where it has been chattering around next to the worn out bearing. Measure your axles for damage, they often need replacing after bearing failure.
The wider inner bearing is part no 3208B-2RSRTNG
The outer bearing is part no 6308DDU
Johnny
Hi all. A question. I've had a loose rear right wheel. I replaced the bearings, and in the process tightened that unique nut as much as I dared, using a hammer and a screwdriver. Yes I know, not good, but I haven't got a socket that fits. Worked fine for some time, then the wheel was loose again. I thought new bearings again, but I only had to tighten the unique nut almost ½ turn. That fixed it. But now it's loose again.
What do I do, is this just about not having it properly tightened or could there be something else wrong? No problems on the left wheel.
Do I have to buy that socket (where?) and tighten to what lbs/ft?
Any help will be appreciated
What do I do, is this just about not having it properly tightened or could there be something else wrong? No problems on the left wheel.
Do I have to buy that socket (where?) and tighten to what lbs/ft?
Any help will be appreciated
For the rear axle socket go to: www.ipsco.org.
Torque to 350 ft/lbs.
I would suggest that you drill and tap the side of the yoke for a set screw that will go into the side of the axle nut. That should keep it from backing off.
Mark
Torque to 350 ft/lbs.
I would suggest that you drill and tap the side of the yoke for a set screw that will go into the side of the axle nut. That should keep it from backing off.
Mark
Are you sure you have the right axle on each side? There is a right and left hand axle. The axle nuts should not loosen up since they thighten in the forward rotation. I would check to make sure they haven't been switched.
Richard T.
Richard T.
Richard,
When I bought my Pantera, I had to do the brakes first thing. I discovered that someone had tried to put the left axle nut on with a hammer and punch. There is no way to that torgue the nut tight enough using that method. I suspect that No Quarter is in the same boat. He really should check the axles. Mine were totally trashed.
When I bought my Pantera, I had to do the brakes first thing. I discovered that someone had tried to put the left axle nut on with a hammer and punch. There is no way to that torgue the nut tight enough using that method. I suspect that No Quarter is in the same boat. He really should check the axles. Mine were totally trashed.
350 lbs/ft? My biggest torque wrench goes to 200 lbs/ft only. And yes I'm buying that socket, and when I get in there, I'll see if it goes the right way or if it's a left side axle
I bought forged axles, the double roler bearings and spacer, and jsut continued to replace the rest of the bushings and shafts and sleeves in bith front and back.
The two axles are different thread left and right ..with new axle nuts. THEY HAVE TO BE TORQUED to 350 other wise you will have a 3 wheeler.
Ron
The two axles are different thread left and right ..with new axle nuts. THEY HAVE TO BE TORQUED to 350 other wise you will have a 3 wheeler.
Ron
I just want to add my 1-1/2 cents (sense) here.
I had the same reaction to the 350# number in the manual.
My problem was that this wasn't possible for me to accomplish.
In one of my many panic calls to Gary Hall, as I recall, he suggested that first you need the correct axle socket, and then go to sears and get the longest breaker bar that they have.
Take the whole mess and set it up to where you can stand on the bar (this one is up to the individual to figure out how) and just make the nut as tight as you can with your weight on the bar.
I think that will come out to roughly 350ft-lbs, depending on you weight and the length of the bar. That doesn't matter that much though. The point is "as tight as you can get it".
Don't come bitchin' back in the future that you can't get the frikin' thing loose...gain some weight and jump up and down on the bar.
Incidentally I may be mistaken but I think that number is well past the capacity of my impact wrench.
I had the same reaction to the 350# number in the manual.
My problem was that this wasn't possible for me to accomplish.
In one of my many panic calls to Gary Hall, as I recall, he suggested that first you need the correct axle socket, and then go to sears and get the longest breaker bar that they have.
Take the whole mess and set it up to where you can stand on the bar (this one is up to the individual to figure out how) and just make the nut as tight as you can with your weight on the bar.
I think that will come out to roughly 350ft-lbs, depending on you weight and the length of the bar. That doesn't matter that much though. The point is "as tight as you can get it".
Don't come bitchin' back in the future that you can't get the frikin' thing loose...gain some weight and jump up and down on the bar.
Incidentally I may be mistaken but I think that number is well past the capacity of my impact wrench.
Doug,
They do make what is called a torque multiplier .. this can be borrowed or obtained at a place where the repair trucks. Or purchased for about 500.00 The head bolts and other parts on truck exceed 350 some times 10 times that. But yes your method would work if this is not possible. Or we can ask MARK the moderator who sells tool to see if he can get us one and we pass it around.
Ron
They do make what is called a torque multiplier .. this can be borrowed or obtained at a place where the repair trucks. Or purchased for about 500.00 The head bolts and other parts on truck exceed 350 some times 10 times that. But yes your method would work if this is not possible. Or we can ask MARK the moderator who sells tool to see if he can get us one and we pass it around.
Ron
There are tools called a torque multipliers. You can find them on the internet. They don't appear to be cheap. You might be able to find a used one cheap on ebay, but then can you trust its accuracy? You might also be able to rent one somewhere?
Art
Art
quote:... IF YOU ARE NOT IN A HURRY I WILL TAKE PHOTOS OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS AND TAKE NOTES OF MY PROJECT, AND FORWARD THEM TO YOU FOR REFERENCE?
could you please post here for all of our reference?? - many thanks!ed
quote:Originally posted by Art Stephens:
There are tools called a torque multipliers. You can find them on the internet. They don't appear to be cheap. You might be able to find a used one cheap on ebay, but then can you trust its accuracy? You might also be able to rent one somewhere?
Art
find cheap TM here...can't vouch as to how good it is...but at $20 v. $500, you can probably experiment...ymmv - thanks, ed
I dont think torque multipliers can go bad , like a torque wrench can. They are basicly nothing but a gear reduction unit. Either they work or they dont. Just be very careful, because someone tells you that it is a 4:1, it may not be. Check the tag most 4:1's I have ever used are 3.6,3.8:1. and so on. Also they need a handle to allow the countertorque they create to transfer to a solid object. If it just spins on the end of the torque wrench you will never get to the desired torque setting you want.
Jeff
Jeff
They are kind of expensive. My method is already proven.
For those fenatics, you can calculate the torque you are applying.
Worst that can happen is that you will need to loose weight or you will slip off and break your leg.
For those fenatics, you can calculate the torque you are applying.
Worst that can happen is that you will need to loose weight or you will slip off and break your leg.
If you want to use a extension on your torque wrench. There are formulas to ensure you apply the correct torque to the wheel bearing. I can do that at work tomorrow if you wish.
Rules to torqueing a fastner:
1) Any extension added to a torque wrench will alter the torque being applied. i.e.- A extension making the wrench longer will alter the true torque applied to the object, lets say your using a crows foot...straight away from the head will alter the amount to whatever is being torqued, at a 90 degree angle to the head of the torque wrench will not affect the torque being applied.
2) Use of a extension to raise the height of the wrench does little to the amount of torque being applied. Alot of people will tell you not to do this because the "TWIST" of the extension will throw off the torque being applied. What little torque is lost during this "TWIST" is very hard to calculate and is considered mute.
3) When you tighten a fastner you should have a smooth steady pull on the wrench, no bouncing of the torque wrench..this will cause false readings due to shock loading of the wrench. Also you should apply a roughly equal counter torque to the head of the torque wrench to aid in stabilizing the tool. This will also prevent the socket, crows foot, etc from slipping off of the fastner.
This concludes our Torque Wrench 101. LOL
Jeff
Rules to torqueing a fastner:
1) Any extension added to a torque wrench will alter the torque being applied. i.e.- A extension making the wrench longer will alter the true torque applied to the object, lets say your using a crows foot...straight away from the head will alter the amount to whatever is being torqued, at a 90 degree angle to the head of the torque wrench will not affect the torque being applied.
2) Use of a extension to raise the height of the wrench does little to the amount of torque being applied. Alot of people will tell you not to do this because the "TWIST" of the extension will throw off the torque being applied. What little torque is lost during this "TWIST" is very hard to calculate and is considered mute.
3) When you tighten a fastner you should have a smooth steady pull on the wrench, no bouncing of the torque wrench..this will cause false readings due to shock loading of the wrench. Also you should apply a roughly equal counter torque to the head of the torque wrench to aid in stabilizing the tool. This will also prevent the socket, crows foot, etc from slipping off of the fastner.
This concludes our Torque Wrench 101. LOL
Jeff
quote:Originally posted by JeffS:
If you want to use a extension on your torque wrench. There are formulas to ensure you apply the correct torque to the wheel bearing. I can do that at work tomorrow if you wish.
Jeff
Jeff,
I'd like to see the formula.
Dan
Ok Dan I just deleted the post I had it was of no use. Here are the sheets with all of the formulas you will need to calculate the 350 ft lbs of torque. I'm sorry it took me so long to get this for you it has been alittle hectic here the last couple of days.
Jeff
If you cant read these just let me know and I can email you the files.
Jeff
If you cant read these just let me know and I can email you the files.
Thanks Jeff. It's fine. Just wanted it for future reference. Dan
I now bought the socket from www.ipsco.org.. Excellent service they provide, friendly and fast. I also got tempted and bought a plate for the rear end, pure dress up. 
But back to torque. I have a torque wrench up to 200 ft/lbs. A friend has a stiff 3/4" bar. I would do it like this, please sense check. I torque to 100. Then to 200. I see how much the nut turns between the 2 settings, "x". Then I use the bar to turn it an additional 1½ "x". Wouldn't that be close?
Is it possible for a human with my tools to tighten it too much?
But back to torque. I have a torque wrench up to 200 ft/lbs. A friend has a stiff 3/4" bar. I would do it like this, please sense check. I torque to 100. Then to 200. I see how much the nut turns between the 2 settings, "x". Then I use the bar to turn it an additional 1½ "x". Wouldn't that be close?
Is it possible for a human with my tools to tighten it too much?
I don't think you can go too tight. If memory serves me right, I think Wilkinson recommends 400+ ft/lbs.
300 or 400 lbs is not tha much difference .. but too loose will enable the outer race of the bearing to spin in the housing and cause big problems. Too tight may cause unwanted preload on the side of the bearing and cause failure.
I would just do what they ask for rather then either loose a wheel or have to tak it apart a second time. The cost of the torque multiplier as compared to the damage a wheel could do or redoing it with a new axle, bearing and housing is only a little bit of money.
Check with your local Auto Shop or Tool Rental Place they may leand it or rent it to you.
Ron
Ron
I would just do what they ask for rather then either loose a wheel or have to tak it apart a second time. The cost of the torque multiplier as compared to the damage a wheel could do or redoing it with a new axle, bearing and housing is only a little bit of money.
Check with your local Auto Shop or Tool Rental Place they may leand it or rent it to you.
Ron
Ron
Sensible advice...
Harbor Freight has a torque wrench 100-600 ft/lbs, #3293-3VGA, on sale at $139.99
I can borrow a torque wrench for the weekend. Just to check, the right nut that I'm going to tighten, that should be normal clockwise, right? And the left one counterclockwise?
Done. For those interested, I measured that if you torque to 200 ft/lbs which most normal torque wrences can, you need to turn the special socket 18mm or 5/8" more to get to 350 ft/lbs, give or take.