How did you cope with the fact that unlike the original radiator, which has 90 DEGREE 1 3/8" dia. tubes entering and exiting the tanks, the Fluidyne has STRAIGHT 1 1/2" tubes?
Eric
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There are several ways, but I chose to use 90 degree copper sweat-solder fittings available from any hardware store for a couple of bucks apiece. By soaking 1-3/8" Gates Green Stripe radiator hose in hot water for a few minutes, the 1-1/2" OD fittings slide into the 1-3/8" hoses, which then connect to the under-car pipes. On the radiator side, I simply used short sections of 1-1/2" Gates green stripe hose. I just completed a 900 mile round trip to 'Vegas & back with zero radiator problems at all. Other guys use molded 90 degree 1-3/8" hoses and expand the ends for the radiator stub- pipes with hot water. I prefer not to use any molded hoses at all.
Eric- I installed the Fluidyne radiator last fall in my '74. I was the guy who bought your Dunlops last January. Jack's got a good point regarding NOT using molded hoses. If you have stainless tubes and Gates greenstripe everywhere else, the molded hoses would be the weak link in the system. I still have my stock fans. If I were to do it all over again, I'd spring the extra $200 and buy the Flex-A-Lite FLX-220 suckers, lay down the radiator, and while the system is open and flushed, replace ALL hoses, clamps, and grommets. If you don't have heater isolation valves, put those in at the same time.
Even though the molded hoses are used in most American cars, I didn't care to use the molded hoses either. I had 2 extra Pantera 90 degree elbows and used Gates Green hose to solve the fit, but the Pantera elbows have a large radius compared to the other suggestions here and the radiator MUST be angled forward for the elbows to fit.
Hey SwenDog, how's it going? Shoot me an e-mail and let me know what's happening with EPA this year. I hooked up with Mark Basile from L.I. He called me up to join his band. It wasn't until later that we realized we were fellow Pantera owners and that we'd met a few years ago in Pocono!
I picked up the 1-1/2" copper elbows, and am shopping around for the Gates Green Stripe 1-1/2" hose. Damn, that stuff is expensive, especially since they'll only sell me a 3' section, when all I need is two 6" pieces.
Eric
I picked up the 1-1/2" copper elbows, and am shopping around for the Gates Green Stripe 1-1/2" hose. Damn, that stuff is expensive, especially since they'll only sell me a 3' section, when all I need is two 6" pieces.
Eric
ET........ If you want shorter pieces goto a marine place for water hose, they will sell it by the foot. The stuff comes with, or without stainless windings. It also can make a tight bend and is extremely durable. (most marine items are a grade above automotive anyway). Also looks correct from the exterior.
Bob
Bob
Thanks Kaamacat. I have to stop by the Marine store anyway to pick up some fuel filters for the Donzi. I'll give it a try.
BTW, does your username, Kaamacat, have any connection to Betty Cook's KAAMA?
Eric
BTW, does your username, Kaamacat, have any connection to Betty Cook's KAAMA?
Eric
Re the expense of buying Gates Green Spripe in 3 ft sections, remember your entire cooling system is connected by short sections of that 1-3/8" hose. The short section of 2" hose connecting the water pump to the twisty curved pipe around the gearshift rod is the only exception. Buy the big chunk & put the excess on your shelf- guaranteed, you'll need it sometime!
Okay, Jack. I went with the 1-1/2" copper elbows and the Green Stripe hose. Now I know why everyone lays the radiator down. The elbows just won't fit in the available space in the upright position.
Alright, so I'm now doing a laydown installation. What kind of sucker fans do you recommend I use?
The other problem I ran into with the Fluidyne is the relays don't fit. Who sells the proper reducer fittings? Does Marino have them?
Eric
Alright, so I'm now doing a laydown installation. What kind of sucker fans do you recommend I use?
The other problem I ran into with the Fluidyne is the relays don't fit. Who sells the proper reducer fittings? Does Marino have them?
Eric
Flexilite's FL-220 shrouded dual sucker-fan setup is what I (and most other guys) use. Do NOT use the included tie-wraps that are supposed to go thru the radiator core! Nylon tiewraps may wear a hole thru a tube, destroying your radiator. Instead, use wide bent-aluminum L-brackets from the 4 corners of the fan shroud to the front of the rad tanks to lightly hold the assembly in place. Whan a fan is running, the whole assembly will suck closer to the radiator, so the L-brackets need not be made very tight. If the blades touch the core during running, the motors can be spaced away from the shroud 1/4" with a pair of half-moon spacers for each motor, made of plastic, plywood or metal, depending on what you have around. The two fan thermal switches should have been included with the radiator.... did this thing come from a real Pantera parts vendor?
Yes, Marino should have the correct thermal switches in stock cheaply. Finally, to lay the radiator forward for working access, all thats needed is two 1" wide straps about 4-6" long, bolted between the original rad-mounts and the radiator tabs.To lay it fwd, drill out the spot welds holding the OEM fan mounts up front. Done carefully, they can be returned to stock with a few tack-welds. Finally, be very sure the fan blades are both turning in the "suck" direction AND that they are oriented on the fan motors the same.
Yes, Marino should have the correct thermal switches in stock cheaply. Finally, to lay the radiator forward for working access, all thats needed is two 1" wide straps about 4-6" long, bolted between the original rad-mounts and the radiator tabs.To lay it fwd, drill out the spot welds holding the OEM fan mounts up front. Done carefully, they can be returned to stock with a few tack-welds. Finally, be very sure the fan blades are both turning in the "suck" direction AND that they are oriented on the fan motors the same.
quote:
Originally posted by jack deryke:
use wide bent-aluminum L-brackets from the 4 corners of the fan shroud to the front of the rad tanks to lightly hold the assembly in place.
To lay it fwd, drill out the spot welds holding the OEM fan mounts up front. Done carefully, they can be returned to stock with a few tack-welds.
These L brackets you speak of, They don't get attached to the tanks, they just wrap around them?
Where are these spot welds holding the OEM fan mounts? My car came with the fans mounted to the radiator with the dreaded zip tie thingys.
I bought the Fluidyne radiator from Summit. It's a stock Fluidyne P/N. You have to look up the P/N on Fluidyne's website to give it to the Summit operator, because it's not listed in Summit's catalog, but they did have the best price. Fluidyne would not sell direct.
Eric
Okay, I just ordered the Flex-A-Lite setup from Summit. P/N FLX-220 $215 shipped.
By the way, the dreaded "zip ties" I got aren't really zip ties, they're made specifically for mounting fans to the radiator core. They're cushioned discs that have a serrated "tail", for lack of a better term, which passes through the core, onto which another cushioned disc is placed. The second disc fastens to the serrations so that they can only tighten and can't loosen (like a zip tie). The cushioned discs snug up against the fins and presumably, once fastened, won't shift.
Is it still your opinion that these can saw through the core's tubes? Just wondering.
Thanks,
Eric
By the way, the dreaded "zip ties" I got aren't really zip ties, they're made specifically for mounting fans to the radiator core. They're cushioned discs that have a serrated "tail", for lack of a better term, which passes through the core, onto which another cushioned disc is placed. The second disc fastens to the serrations so that they can only tighten and can't loosen (like a zip tie). The cushioned discs snug up against the fins and presumably, once fastened, won't shift.
Is it still your opinion that these can saw through the core's tubes? Just wondering.
Thanks,
Eric
ETolnes
What did Summit charge you for the Fluidyne?
What did Summit charge you for the Fluidyne?
Correct- simple bent aluminum strap. Some add strips of old bicycle innertube or waterbed patch material to protect the aluminum tanks
In a stock Pantera, there's two whole sheet-metal structures up front, on which each front-mount fan rests. The fans & structure interfere with leaning the new radiator few into their space. Yours seems to have been already removed.
The plastic fasteners incuded with the Flexilite, whatever they call them, do in fact damage radiator cores. The internal tubes are only 0.005" thick in brass radiators, and 0.012" thick in aluminum radiators- not very tolerant of any kind of physical contact or load.
JHarris:
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I've been trying to hunt down the receipt without any luck. As I recall it was under $500.00, however, the problem I'm running into now is that despite the lower price from Summit, I'm spending more as I scramble around to get all the little stuff together.
As I stated in a previous post, I'm now forced to install it in a laydown position because of the need to use copper elbows as per Jack's advice. That of course means I can't use my pusher fans, so I had to buy a set of "puller" or "sucker" fans ($205 + S&H from Summit).
The other problem is that the bungs on the radiator don't fit the stock temp switches. A call to Marino at Pantera east resulted in a story about how he doesn't sell aluminum radiators because they crack after a few years (has anyone else heard of this?), and how he knows a Pantera guy who has five of them sitting on a shelf unable to be repaired, so no, he doesn't have the switches to fit. Fluidyne ain't got no stinking switches, so it's Sherlock Holmes time again.
Larry at Pantera Parts Connection has them for $25 apiece. "Fine, okay, send them". While on the phone with Larry, I was explaining the problem with the 1-1/2" nipples on the radiator and the need to do a laydown installation because of the copper elbows etc., and he acted surprised at that because his Fluidyne radiators have 1-3/8" nipples (he also didn't understand the whole copper elbow scenario because he has 90 degree bent hoses that enable you to install Fluidyne radiators in an upright position. I chose not to go into the whole Gates Green Stripe hose vs. molded hose debate with him on the phone).
So why does Fluidyne allegedly put 1-3/8" nipples on some of its Pantera radiators and 1-1/2" on others???
Mysteries sure do have a way of multiplying with these cars and these parts vendors.
My advice: buy a whole kit (radiator, fans, switches, grommets, hoses, etc.) from you favorite Pantera vendor before you try to save money by shopping around for the best prices on individual pieces.
Eric
[This message has been edited by ETolnes (edited 05-10-2004).]
[This message has been edited by ETolnes (edited 05-10-2004).]
[This message has been edited by ETolnes (edited 05-10-2004).]
I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I've been trying to hunt down the receipt without any luck. As I recall it was under $500.00, however, the problem I'm running into now is that despite the lower price from Summit, I'm spending more as I scramble around to get all the little stuff together.
As I stated in a previous post, I'm now forced to install it in a laydown position because of the need to use copper elbows as per Jack's advice. That of course means I can't use my pusher fans, so I had to buy a set of "puller" or "sucker" fans ($205 + S&H from Summit).
The other problem is that the bungs on the radiator don't fit the stock temp switches. A call to Marino at Pantera east resulted in a story about how he doesn't sell aluminum radiators because they crack after a few years (has anyone else heard of this?), and how he knows a Pantera guy who has five of them sitting on a shelf unable to be repaired, so no, he doesn't have the switches to fit. Fluidyne ain't got no stinking switches, so it's Sherlock Holmes time again.
Larry at Pantera Parts Connection has them for $25 apiece. "Fine, okay, send them". While on the phone with Larry, I was explaining the problem with the 1-1/2" nipples on the radiator and the need to do a laydown installation because of the copper elbows etc., and he acted surprised at that because his Fluidyne radiators have 1-3/8" nipples (he also didn't understand the whole copper elbow scenario because he has 90 degree bent hoses that enable you to install Fluidyne radiators in an upright position. I chose not to go into the whole Gates Green Stripe hose vs. molded hose debate with him on the phone).
So why does Fluidyne allegedly put 1-3/8" nipples on some of its Pantera radiators and 1-1/2" on others???
Mysteries sure do have a way of multiplying with these cars and these parts vendors.
My advice: buy a whole kit (radiator, fans, switches, grommets, hoses, etc.) from you favorite Pantera vendor before you try to save money by shopping around for the best prices on individual pieces.
Eric
[This message has been edited by ETolnes (edited 05-10-2004).]
[This message has been edited by ETolnes (edited 05-10-2004).]
[This message has been edited by ETolnes (edited 05-10-2004).]
JHarris: I found the receipt. The short answer to your question is $482.39
Summit P/N: FLD-FHP30-PAN
Eric
Summit P/N: FLD-FHP30-PAN
Eric
ETolnes, Thanks for getting back to me. I'am in the process of doing a bare metal restoration on my Pantera and I'am slowing making a list of items I have to buy. It's adding up to fast$$$$$$
snip....
< A call to Marino at Pantera East resulted in a story about how he doesn't sell aluminum radiators because they crack after a few years [has anyone else heard of this?), and how he knows a Pantera guy who has five of them sitting on a shelf unable to be repaired...>
There are two kinds of "aluminum radiators"- one kind is all -welded (e.g-Fluidyne, at least in their nationwide ads) and the other kind is partially welded & partially held together with epoxy. These, no surprise, tend to be cheaper. I suspect they are indeed unrepairable.
On the other problems- the Pantera parts vendors contact suppliers and often get exclusive rights to special-edition parts that will fit a Pantera with no trouble. Such trouble-free parts for Panteras may be unavailable from cut-rate discount stores, who also do not provide installation instructions, support or sometimes, useable warrantys.
FWIW, my Fluidyne aluminum radiator came from P.I Motorsports & it dropped in. I chose to use metal elbows rather than molded hoses but that was my choice. 2 weeks later, it survived an 850-mile trip to 'Vegas & back across the high desert. The coolant level is still full-to-the-brim. Color me "satisfied".
Caveat Emptor!
< A call to Marino at Pantera East resulted in a story about how he doesn't sell aluminum radiators because they crack after a few years [has anyone else heard of this?), and how he knows a Pantera guy who has five of them sitting on a shelf unable to be repaired...>
There are two kinds of "aluminum radiators"- one kind is all -welded (e.g-Fluidyne, at least in their nationwide ads) and the other kind is partially welded & partially held together with epoxy. These, no surprise, tend to be cheaper. I suspect they are indeed unrepairable.
On the other problems- the Pantera parts vendors contact suppliers and often get exclusive rights to special-edition parts that will fit a Pantera with no trouble. Such trouble-free parts for Panteras may be unavailable from cut-rate discount stores, who also do not provide installation instructions, support or sometimes, useable warrantys.
FWIW, my Fluidyne aluminum radiator came from P.I Motorsports & it dropped in. I chose to use metal elbows rather than molded hoses but that was my choice. 2 weeks later, it survived an 850-mile trip to 'Vegas & back across the high desert. The coolant level is still full-to-the-brim. Color me "satisfied".
Caveat Emptor!
quote:
Originally posted by jack deryke:
[B]There are two kinds of "aluminum radiators"- one kind is all -welded (e.g-Fluidyne, at least in their nationwide ads) and the other kind is partially welded & partially held together with epoxy. These, no surprise, tend to be cheaper.
On the other problems- the Pantera parts vendors contact suppliers and often get exclusive rights to special-edition parts that will fit a Pantera with no trouble. Such trouble-free parts for Panteras may be unavailable from cut-rate discount stores B]
Well, I'm releived to hear I have the better kind of aluminum radiator.
I suppose you're right about the vendors getting better stuff, but I don't know why they should. Why would a manufacturer go to the trouble of making some right and some wrong? Unless, they made an initial batch only to discover that they screwed up, and have those sitting on the shelf until they can unload them through the huge catalog houses.(?)
To my sense of business ethics, if you market a product as a replacement part, then it damn well had better fit where the original part was and hook up directly to all the stock mounts and fittings. But then, I guess that's why I'd never succeed in business; I'd spend too much effort on getting it right before it went out the door. I'd R&D myself into bankruptcy!
Grrrr.....
Hang in there Eric. Very little is SIMPLE on these cars. I have the molded hoses attached to my Fluidyne and stock fans. If I were to do it again, I'd install the Flex-A-Lite suckers, copper elbows, and lay it down and be done with it. As far as the temp switches are concerned, put pipe plugs in the Fluidyne and buy the 2-stage adjustable t-stat from Pantera East for $50 and be done with it. That comes with a prewired in-line fuse and 30 amp relay which is more than enough to handle both Flex-A-Lite fans. This way, you get rid of two 30-year-old relays as well AND you can fine-tune the sequencing of your fans.
Everything is in and working fine (knock wood). Thanks for you help everyone.
Eric
Eric