I am wondering if anyone has succesfully used a centrifugal type supercharger on the 351 Windsor engine? Such as a Procharger or Vortech style. I starting to worry that there simply isn't enough room.
Steve
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Mark, why did you not try it?
Steve,
my thoughts; there's not a lot of room "in front" of the engine for a centrifugal blower like the Vortech. But a Kenne Bell that sits on top may work, that would also compliment your earlier inquiry about fuel injection.
In fact, a large displacement Windsor with some big AFR heads, a Kenne Bell blower and fuel injection would make one very powerful Pantera motor. The muted whine of the blower would sound cool too.
your friend on the PIBB, George
my thoughts; there's not a lot of room "in front" of the engine for a centrifugal blower like the Vortech. But a Kenne Bell that sits on top may work, that would also compliment your earlier inquiry about fuel injection.
In fact, a large displacement Windsor with some big AFR heads, a Kenne Bell blower and fuel injection would make one very powerful Pantera motor. The muted whine of the blower would sound cool too.
your friend on the PIBB, George
Is this your car? Is this a carbureted or fuel injected engine? Also, what supercharger is this that is being used? And how did it work out for you?
Steve
Steve
George,
Is there a site for the Kene Belle chargers?
I have gone back and forth on the FI systems. It seems if I can supercharge it, I will use FI but otherwise I may back down to the cheaper Mighty Demon 750 carb.
It seems that people are uncertain as to use FI or not. Some people swear by it and others swear at it. Even in the poll that is being taken now, most owners advise not going with it. And of course there is the issue of the $3500 more too.
Steve
Is there a site for the Kene Belle chargers?
I have gone back and forth on the FI systems. It seems if I can supercharge it, I will use FI but otherwise I may back down to the cheaper Mighty Demon 750 carb.
It seems that people are uncertain as to use FI or not. Some people swear by it and others swear at it. Even in the poll that is being taken now, most owners advise not going with it. And of course there is the issue of the $3500 more too.
Steve
Steve,
That is not my car. It looks like it's fuel injected (that's not a carb). It looks like a Vortech supercharger.
From what I understand, two Pantera enthusiasts from Europe on vacation here in the US visited Pantera Performance in Colorado where they snapped this shot of a customer's car. I'm pretty sure this picture is a few years old already.
For more information, contact Dennis Quella there. The phone number is 303-660-9897.
Here's their website: http://www.panteraperformance.com/
Let us know what you find out.
Michael
That is not my car. It looks like it's fuel injected (that's not a carb). It looks like a Vortech supercharger.
From what I understand, two Pantera enthusiasts from Europe on vacation here in the US visited Pantera Performance in Colorado where they snapped this shot of a customer's car. I'm pretty sure this picture is a few years old already.
For more information, contact Dennis Quella there. The phone number is 303-660-9897.
Here's their website: http://www.panteraperformance.com/
Let us know what you find out.
Michael
Kenne Bell's web site:
http://www.kennebell.net/
Carb or fuel injection? That's a personal thing, I think. A Holley carb CAN be tuned to run well with just about any engine. It's less expensive, for sure. And some people think mechanical means more reliable. But fuel injection may appeal to someone for any number of reasons, if they have the budget, I say go for it! You won't go wrong with fuel injection either. (Most of the swearing "at" fuel injection is directed towards speed density systems) I personally think fuel injection is a great way to "update" a Pantera. Fuel injection atomizes fuel at lower rpm better than a carburetor and therefore it will improve fuel economy & drivability, as well as even out fuel distribution between cylinders.
But then again, my personal Pantera still runs the Autolite 4300D carb! LOL
The Kenne Bell blowers are designed to run with Ford MAF fuel injection. They're low profile to fit under a Mustang hood. It uses the same type of supercharger technology that Mercedes is using, I forget the name, having a senior moment, sorry.
your friend on the PIBB, George
http://www.kennebell.net/
Carb or fuel injection? That's a personal thing, I think. A Holley carb CAN be tuned to run well with just about any engine. It's less expensive, for sure. And some people think mechanical means more reliable. But fuel injection may appeal to someone for any number of reasons, if they have the budget, I say go for it! You won't go wrong with fuel injection either. (Most of the swearing "at" fuel injection is directed towards speed density systems) I personally think fuel injection is a great way to "update" a Pantera. Fuel injection atomizes fuel at lower rpm better than a carburetor and therefore it will improve fuel economy & drivability, as well as even out fuel distribution between cylinders.
But then again, my personal Pantera still runs the Autolite 4300D carb! LOL
The Kenne Bell blowers are designed to run with Ford MAF fuel injection. They're low profile to fit under a Mustang hood. It uses the same type of supercharger technology that Mercedes is using, I forget the name, having a senior moment, sorry.
your friend on the PIBB, George
Yes, that was taken by some of our Swedish friends in Dennis Quella's shop. Some more PPC pictures from their vacation can be seen at: http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/ppc-2001/
I'd really like to see more about that supercharger implementation. Looks real interesting.
Gandalf,
I have a picture of an interesting setup. I tried to post it but it exceeded the file limit and for the life of me I can't figure out how to reduce the size. If you're interested, e-mail me mgreen15atadelphia.net.
I have a picture of an interesting setup. I tried to post it but it exceeded the file limit and for the life of me I can't figure out how to reduce the size. If you're interested, e-mail me mgreen15atadelphia.net.
that's really a work of art isn't it!?
George
George
Believe it or not, I followed up on that twin supercharger set-up in the photo. Wilkenson Pantera built a few of these cars in the past. They said that there was some reliability issuses. A jackshaft has to be run to the front side of the engine, and there was some problems. The parts are no longer available either. So this option seems to be dead.
I spoke with Dennis in Colorado and inquired of the supercharger in the pics. Again, this car was a considerable expense and none of the parts (except the charger) are available and would have to be fabricated. He strongly recommended a well built normally aspirated engine.
A call was made to Kenne Bell, but they don't know if the set-up would fit under the deck lid.
I seems I may need to pass on the supercharger. In the end it would save me a considerable amount. I can see that the rarity of these cars is sometimes working against us.
Steve
I spoke with Dennis in Colorado and inquired of the supercharger in the pics. Again, this car was a considerable expense and none of the parts (except the charger) are available and would have to be fabricated. He strongly recommended a well built normally aspirated engine.
A call was made to Kenne Bell, but they don't know if the set-up would fit under the deck lid.
I seems I may need to pass on the supercharger. In the end it would save me a considerable amount. I can see that the rarity of these cars is sometimes working against us.
Steve
Steve,
It's not the rarity of our cars that's working against us, it's the mid-engined configuration. With room at the front of the engine nonexistant (and some of it borrowed from the cockpit), it will take some creativity and re-engineering to it. As you can see it's been done, and will be done again.
I'm working on a supercharger setup that I'm going to install in my Pantera over this winter. I just need to fabricate one or two more small pieces and I'm good to go. I'll take pictures as I go along and post them for all to see. Don't expect to see them until Spring time, though.
Michael
P.S. Here's small taste of what I'm working on:
It's not the rarity of our cars that's working against us, it's the mid-engined configuration. With room at the front of the engine nonexistant (and some of it borrowed from the cockpit), it will take some creativity and re-engineering to it. As you can see it's been done, and will be done again.
I'm working on a supercharger setup that I'm going to install in my Pantera over this winter. I just need to fabricate one or two more small pieces and I'm good to go. I'll take pictures as I go along and post them for all to see. Don't expect to see them until Spring time, though.
Michael
P.S. Here's small taste of what I'm working on:
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quote:Originally posted by gandalfthegray:
Believe it or not, I followed up on that twin supercharger set-up in the photo. Wilkenson Pantera built a few of these cars in the past. They said that there was some reliability issuses. A jackshaft has to be run to the front side of the engine, and there was some problems. The parts are no longer available either. So this option seems to be dead.
I spoke with Dennis in Colorado and inquired of the supercharger in the pics. Again, this car was a considerable expense and none of the parts (except the charger) are available and would have to be fabricated. He strongly recommended a well built normally aspirated engine.
A call was made to Kenne Bell, but they don't know if the set-up would fit under the deck lid.
I seems I may need to pass on the supercharger. In the end it would save me a considerable amount. I can see that the rarity of these cars is sometimes working against us.
Steve
Have you considered the twin turbo option?? There is a car on the PI site that has it done. I would have done it differantly than the way it was done here, but it would seem to be more adaptable to the available space. The engine bay has room side to side but very little front to back.
Does anyone make a super/turbo charger "bolt on" kit for the pantera? The PP clutch driven supercharger looks like an easy plumbing job but how is it driven off the clutch? I would assume a drive gear bolted to the clutch/fly wheel assembly and a modified bell housing? Anyone have photos of the drive area? Anyone know if he is marketing this set up?
I was able to stop by Pantera Performance today in Castle Rock, Colorado. I spent nearly two hours talking with Dennis Quella.
Dennis is a very knowlegable asset when it comes to these cars. He has seen or done just about everything that can be done to a Pantera. They do full restoration at the shop and have cars in all stages of it. It was interesting as I was able to see what my car looks like as just the chassis. They were doing corrosion replacement on these particular cars.
I spoke with Dennis regarding the supercharger that he had done for a customer. It can be done, but the cost there is considerable. They were talking $20,000 to $25,000. complete with the fuel injection.
This is beyond my budget. I am confident that the engine building that they do is top notch. And would consider Dennis if I do have my engine rebuilt.
Dennis is a distributor for Kinesis wheels as well.
Cyboman, if you read this post, email me at carrera_c4@yahoo.com I have some questions regarding the wheels you have.
Steve
Dennis is a very knowlegable asset when it comes to these cars. He has seen or done just about everything that can be done to a Pantera. They do full restoration at the shop and have cars in all stages of it. It was interesting as I was able to see what my car looks like as just the chassis. They were doing corrosion replacement on these particular cars.
I spoke with Dennis regarding the supercharger that he had done for a customer. It can be done, but the cost there is considerable. They were talking $20,000 to $25,000. complete with the fuel injection.
This is beyond my budget. I am confident that the engine building that they do is top notch. And would consider Dennis if I do have my engine rebuilt.
Dennis is a distributor for Kinesis wheels as well.
Cyboman, if you read this post, email me at carrera_c4@yahoo.com I have some questions regarding the wheels you have.
Steve
Steve,
I just left you my e-mail address in the other 'Youngest' thread. It's cyboman@optonline.net. Fire away!
Michael
I just left you my e-mail address in the other 'Youngest' thread. It's cyboman@optonline.net. Fire away!
Michael
Seems as if Steve Wilkinson has had his hand in alot of this Forced Hot Air issue. One of the neatest, most compact (everything under the decklid ) and prettest setups HAS to be seen in the Pantera 'Bible' :- "Pantera's For the Road" by Henry Rasmussen - part of the Surviviors Series. ( Available, although out of print, from Hall's ) - Apart from these 8x stunning pages on the Twin Turbo of Denis Fugnetti's, developed by Steve Wilkinson there are many more of absolutely the very best photography I have ever seen on Panteras & Mongeese, Vallelunga's etc.
Fugnetti's set up is very, very, simple - not even running intercoolers. He says he runs it up to 5000rpm +- at around 10 to max 15 lbs boost which has been good enough for him to have held the lap record at Riverside for two years running. ( ...it seems this was a while ago..+- 1980 )
Check it out.....Absolutely the BEST pics......tai
Fugnetti's set up is very, very, simple - not even running intercoolers. He says he runs it up to 5000rpm +- at around 10 to max 15 lbs boost which has been good enough for him to have held the lap record at Riverside for two years running. ( ...it seems this was a while ago..+- 1980 )
Check it out.....Absolutely the BEST pics......tai