Does anybody build 18 inch wheels for a 72 Pantera with the 2 hole Campagnolo design?
Does anybody build 18 inch wheels for a 72 Pantera with the 2 hole Campagnolo design?
Not sure if this is still possible.
Based on previous experiences, it will be a difficult process and requires CLEAR communication on EXACT style design. I think most owners would opt for the design that was initially used by Boyd Coddington and sold only through Pantera East.
Custom manufactured Campy clone wheels, which can be ordered in larger diameters, are still available from American Republic Wheels (Boyd Coddington Wheels dot com web address) as far as I know.
Their "Campi" wheels ( http://boydcoddingtonwheels.co...oyd-coddington-campi ) are among their "Elite Series" of wheels. The centers of these wheels have 3 dimensional "depth" like the OEM Campy wheels, more so than other Campy clone wheels. For instance the frames around the "windows" tilt outwards at an angle whereas other Campy clones are flat as a pancake. To machine the wheel at multi-angles like that requires more time on the CNC machine, and makes the wheel more expensive. These wheels are gorgeous, and a good option for Pantera owners.
Boyd Coddington once manufactured the wheels for Pantera East, the Pantera East wheels had several features which made them closer in appearance and function to the OEM Campy wheels than other Campy clones on the market.
Boyd Coddington is under new ownership, it has been owned by American Republic Wheels since 2010. Please be forewarned their standard "Campi wheel" spec is a rather generic style wheel spec. It lacks the features listed above that were found in the wheels formerly produced for Pantera East. It is not marketed as a "Pantera wheel", it is intended for owners of classic American hot rods and muscle cars who like the Campi look. If you want a wheel that is more Pantera-specific or similar to the Pantera East wheel, be sure to start the exchange by explaining the wheels are for a Pantera AND you want wheels machined and assembled to the former Pantera East specification, except in terms of diameter, width, and offset. Be specific with what you're looking for. They have a CNC program for the Pantera East wheel, owners have been able to have wheels produced to that spec.
Please also be forewarned that doing business with American Republic Wheels has been an exercise in frustration and disappointment for some folks. As Larry mentioned, you have to be very specific about what you want. If you take the time needed to work out the details with them, there's no doubt you'll end up with a gorgeous set of wheels.
My unsolicited advice for a modern tire and wheel set are thus:
18 diameter, 8.5 width, 16mm offset
19 diameter, 10.0 width, 13mm offset
There are currently 14 tire sets available in these sizes via The Tire Rack. This is in no way a "cutting edge" tire set, its been a rather "standard" set of tires for sports cars and performance cars for several years now. The offsets I've advised will set the tire sidewalls inward from the edge of the fender arch by 20mm both front and back. The wheel widths will square-up the sidewalls the same for both front tirs and rear tires. Squaring the sidewalls offers better wheel protection when negotiating pot holes, and a bit of curb rash protection for the wheels during parking maneuvers. Sidewalls are short and stiff nowadays, there is no reason to use wheels that are wider than the tread as we did in the days when sidewalls were taller. Also be forewarned, modern gas shocks are a necessity for tires with such short sidewalls, the suspension, bushings, etc must be in good shape, any stiction in the suspension is amplified as there is very little cushioning via the tire sidewalls.
Thank you George and Larry. Appreciate your valuable advice. I will get back to you with more questions once I get feedback from the DOT here in Germany.
without an approval for the wheels you will not get the car running in Germany. I didn't find any wheel manufacturer in the US who had the approval. Finally I found a German manufacturer "Schmidt Revolution" who produce wheels 18 inch and my size I requested. the German TUV only requested the design should have been available in the 1970 years in order to get the historic number plate. I like the design, but these do not look like Campagnola.
hope we meet this year in Düsseldorf area, reg. Uli
happy new year
Thanks Uli. Can you send me details of the wheels?
Campy Clone wheels are not created equally. Among the various large diameter Campy clone wheels, the size of the wheels have been increased in one of two ways. One method has been to increase all the dimensions of the wheel proportionally … so as the diameter of the wheel increases, so do the sizes of the windows and slots.
The other method, used by Roin (who makes the wheels for Mr. Fiat) has been to increase the width of the step and the width of the background only, thus leaving the sizes of the windows and slots the same dimensions as the OEM (15 inch)wheels.
One method may look better to you than the other, so this is something to consider when you're making a choice in which Campy Clone wheels to purchase.
Roin wheels come only in 17“ as far as I know. I‘m following George‘s advice and going for bigger.
Thanks to all for the advice.
It’s my understanding that Roin will do 18” too but that’s as large as they’ll go.
That's my understanding too David.
To make 18 inch wheels Mr. Fiat wanted a minimum quantity, I forget the number, but I couldn't get anyone else interested. I never inquired about ordering from Roin directly, if Mr. Roin had a quantity limit to do 18 inch.
The "other" problem with 18 inch wheels is the availability of 285/40ZR18 tires is very limited.
Paired with 225/40ZR18 front there are two sets on Tire Rack.
Paired with 245/40ZR17 front there is only one set on Tire Rack.
The 275/40ZR18 is 26.66 tall … which is OK but not as "good" as the 285/40ZR18 which is 26.97 tall. I've also found owners resistant to the 275 tire because its width is "too narrow". However 275/40ZR18 has far better availability:
Paired with 225/40ZR18 front there are 23 sets on Tire Rack.
Paired with 245/40ZR17 front there are 18 set on Tire Rack.
Dr. Innocenti … I know you prefer wheels of the same diameter, what would you think of a tire set composed of 225/40ZR18 front and 275/40ZR18 rear? The difference in tire diameters front to back with that tire set is only 1.58 inches, a little shy of my usual limit.
I actually like the other tire set better. 245/40ZR17 front and 275/40ZR18 rear. The difference in tire diameters front to back with that tire set is 1.95 inches. With 18 tire sets available on Tire Rack! The 245mm front tire will give better grip during braking. I know the different diameter wheels front to back are not to your liking … but the 17" wheels would not be a special order from Roin.
George, I`ve just sent an email to Roin regarding 18" wheels. In the mean time I`m not averse to staggered wheel sizes. Just checking out my options. Here in Germany we have stringent laws when it comes to modifying cars. Even more stringent if you have historical plates. Will get back to you a.s.a.p. with Roin`s reply. Thanks to all for now.
Andrea Roin just answered my inquiry. He doesn‘t build 18 inch Campagnolo replica wheels. He could if there was demand. He can’t provide pictures or designs of such a wheel, as he is not exactly sure how the replica wheel would look like.
Are you interested in pursuing this further? If so, I am interested in joining you.
OK George. Let‘s take this further. I will ask Andrea manufacturing details( only one version or able to manufacture with individual offsets and widths), and minimum order details. I think we all agree that the rear wheels should have the ribs (short or long?) and the wheels should have the center section proportionally larger, rather than adding “steps“ in order to achieve the desired size. I know you like staggering the wheel sizes, however I doubt manufacturing 2 different sizes is feasible. I will check this point too. I will will drum up interest on this side of the pond as soon as I have sufficient information. Maybe I can burden you with drumming up interest on your side of the pond? Mike Drew knows that I am looking into this matter. I‘m sure he would help us to spread the word. I will contact Andrea as soon as I have your comments. Thanks.
I spent many hours years ago working on designs that grew the wheels to 17, 18, 19 and 20 to a much better visually correct proportion. You will find most of the approaches grew only one area and in one case made the raised rib around the single hole thinner only increasing the hole size. The 17s and 18s looked good but the 19s and 20s became a bit to cartoonish. I ended opening up the 19s and 20s so they had the original design "flavor". Would the new 18" wheels be cast?
Kirk, thanks for your input. More reason to go for 18/18. I believe Roin casts his wheels. More info will follow a.s.a.p.
I believe the wheels are CNC machined, not cast. Roin already manufactures the 17 inch wheels; thus they already have the CNC program (or molds) for the 17 inch wheel. They only need to redesign for the 18 inch wheel. And if the wheels are manufactured using a CNC machine, once the design for the 18 inch wheel is settled upon they should be able to produce both the 17 inch wheel and the 18 inch wheel in any width or offset, for front or back. Thus 17/17, 17/18, or 18/18 sets should be possible. For the best looking 17 inch/18 inch set the 18 inch wheel should match the 17 in version as closely as possible, i.e. the 18 inch wheel should be arrived at using the same strategy that was employed for the 17 inch wheel.
The rear wheel can have short ribs, long ribs, or no ribs at all. I am completely flexible in that regard.
Once we get beyond that stage, the wheels a particular person orders should be defined based upon the tires which they intend to use. Since wheel diameter is limited to 18 inches my personal preference would be the wheel and tire set below:
Front Tire: 245/40ZR17
Front Wheel: 17 diameter, 8.5 width, 16mm offset
Rear Tire: 275/40ZR18
Rear Wheel: 18 diameter, 9.5 width, 8mm offset
There are 70 tires available in the front size on Tire Rack, and 40 tires available in the rear size. There are 18 tire “SETS” available in these sizes on Tire Rack. The set should remain available well into the future. The links below list all the cars that use tires in those sizes.
If I had to choose an 18 inch front wheel I would opt for:
Front Tire: 245/35ZR18
Front Wheel: 18 diameter, 8.5 width, 16mm offset
and use the same rear tire & rear wheel. There are 12 tire "SETS" available in these sizes on Tire Rack.
OK George. With your comments in mind, I‘ll contact Andrea and get back to you.
George, you are correct in that Roin machines their 17" Campi clones from a single billet of aluminum.
For what it's worth, I contacted David Besharat (Mr Fiat) a few months ago and asked him about the possibility of having 18" and 19" wheels produced. Mr Fiat's wheels are made by Roin. Here's the response I got:
"Our supply responded today:
I can only consider to produce 18" because 19" is out of range of billet provider.
Of course if [you] will be interest of 18" Pantera I can find a solutions to modification original drawing.
Which model of Pantera wheels are interest and which size?"
Based on his response, I would say 18" is possible but if you only want one set, you're probably going to have to deal with Mr Fiat. They likely have more clout with Roin, so minimum quantities may not apply.
David, the last I inquired Mr. Fiat had a minimum quantity for 18 inch wheels. But I don't remember what it was. This "can't remember" situation is happening a lot these days.
I'd like to invite you and any one else that's interested to decide upon a tire set with maximum wheel diameters of 18 inches … and join us in the fun.
If the wheel centers are welded to hoops as you say, the issue is finding a supplier of 18" and/or larger hoops which should not be an issue in the US. I could provide centers or designs that could be cut and welded at the correct offsets. Again the problem is not making a larger wheel, its making it look fairly correct as the DIA. grows. You can not just blow it up---the center cap becomes to large and the lug areas grow out of range. It diameter growth issue sounds easier than it is.
Kirk, Roin wheels are one piece; machined from huge billets, rather than a billet center welded to an outer hoop. There are a few wheel manufacturers in the USA who will custom make two piece wheels as you suggest.