1973 L 4454

looking for pantera stolen in AZ, by dan mani formerly of pantera performance. this car was being restored by mani, and subject collected over 10,000.00$ and then skipped with car when police and landlords shut him down. he may have sold it along with another car he had, using forged documentation. please help us get this car back to the owner.
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by lafneyes13:
looking for pantera stolen in AZ, by dan mani formerly of pantera performance. this car was being restored by mani, and subject collected over 10,000.00$ and then skipped with car when police and landlords shut him down. he may have sold it along with another car he had, using forged documentation. please help us get this car back to the owner.


the cars full vin THPNML04454.plates at the time were AZ BCL-088. it was red with black hood and deck cover . this car was first registered in dec 1973, and title shows it to be 1973 , but the car is actually a 72 L.
Good chance the car is being listed by a scammer
not involved. I have seen several of these on Ebay. They are typically identified by things like:
-3 day listing
-bidder's ID hidden
-Ship worldwide
-large non-refundable deposit. In this case 25%!
-Lack of knowlege about the car example, 12 cyl.
I have got to laugh. I love the assumptions made by people yet they won't go to the source and ask the seller!

I would like to know where Comp2 get his knowledge of scammers "typically identified by"

3 day listing???? What the heck does the length of time have to do with a scammer???? I guess when I had the car on previously for 7 days that was okay????

Bidder ID hidden??? Try reading my auction. I have has too many REAL scammers try to get the high bidder (even though the reserve was not met) to send a deposit!!!

Ship Worldwide??? This one is hilarious. I have sold numerous car overseas. Obvious Comp2 does not know what is going on with the economy but the dollar is in the toilet and that makes cars attractive to people overseas!!!

Large non-refundable deposit??? in alot of cases if you don't push people with payment terms on ebay you never get paid. I have never kept a deposit on car even when the winning bidder tries to negotiate after the auction!!!

Lack of knowledge about the car??? I guess you never heard of a typo? I checked and it was that way when I listed it previously. Nobody notified me and I didn't notice it or I would have corrected it.

I am very reputible and sell many cars and have not had any problems. I have shipped cars to people with the provision that if they did not like it when they got it they could pay for the shipping and send it back for a refund.

This car came from has been in New Jersey as a local car for years.

Has anyone asked when the car was "stolen".

I have clear title and ownership to this car.

As far as comp2 and Husker GET A LIFE!
I understand that there are legit reasons for these features. Timeless has listed them. However, I'd have to agree that they are red flags on e-bay and that my first thought when I saw the auction was suspicion. The fact that timeless would post on this board or invite any interested parties to view the car explain, its history, etc, could overcome many concerns.

-3 day listing
>Scammers do this in order to prompt people to make hasty decisions. No time to view, no time to reply- bid now or it will be gone.

-bidder's ID hidden
>Scammers do this so they can bid up their own auctions with fraudulent accounts.

-Ship worldwide
>There are usually plenty of domestic buyers. Most ebayers won't export a car simply because of the hassle. Scammers are equal opportuntiy criminals. They don't want to exclude any possible victims.

-large non-refundable deposit. In this case 25%!
>I can't see the auction any more and didn't mark it to be watched. 25% is a little on the high side compared to most auctions that I see. I wouldn't necessarily say this is scam alert, but it would be a deterrent for me. IMO, it's more often the tactic of a frustrated or even an unscrupulous seller. If the car was not as represented you're out a bunch of $ to retrieve.

-Lack of knowlege about the car example, 12 cyl.
>Typo? Would have to be honest mistake and sounds like such in your case. I don't think you can accidentally type 12 when you meant to type 8. -And the posts here are fair in saying this is the most blatent tip to a scam.

I'm not saying that any of the above applies to timeless. Merely answering his question. In most cases, an email requesting a viewing will sniff out a scam. Timeless' complaint about not being contacted before these posts seems fair. However, the assertion that the structure of the auction should not raise suspicion is probably less reasonable.

-My 2 cents
In looking at all the posts about this car and my auction 2 items have me confused.

One Post States: The seller says "I have the whole history and know the car well." but lists it as a 12 cylinder. I wonder if he was there when they added the other 4 cylinders?

When I checked my auction it makes no mention of "I have the whole history and know the car well."

My auction also says 8 cylinder?

Does anyone have the Item number of the auction in question?

I know that the scammers love to copy an auction that was previously run. Maybe that is the problem here.

One last item about my auction (item 4547420276 and 4548988286)
In my description I encourage bidders to come and see the item and I list my Phone Number! I don't know what more I could do than that to make bidders comfortable.
quote:
Originally posted by Timeless:

I would like to know where Comp2 get his knowledge of scammers "typically identified by"

As far as comp2 and Husker GET A LIFE!


Timeless, I don't know who crawled up your skirt but I watch cars on e-bay. I have bought 3 from the internet in the last 2 years. If this is your listing it it has all the red flags. Sure you can list 3 day, sure you can hide ID's sure you can do all of that. I have seen a dozen scams on e-bay over the last year and they were all listed the way yours was. The only thing the scammers were interested in was a deposit. Go back and look at your add from the outside. You'll see why it raises flags.

I am glad it's not another scam, BUT it was listed just the way the scammers do. Just because I pointed it out,it seemed to ruffle your skirt.
Look, here is why the scammers set it up that way:

1. 3 day listing; gives them a better chance of getting a deal before being discovered

2. bidder's ID hidden; so no one can warn a bidder

3. Ship worldwide; because they will take anyone's deposit

4. large non-refundable deposit; because that is all they are after in the first place

5. Lack of knowlege about the car; almost always there is info about the marque that any owner would know is wrong, they just steel photos and throw up some information.

The last car I bought from EBay I did not even leave a deposit. I bid on the car knowing the next day I could drive to his house with a casheers check. I handed him the check, took the car at the same time (which was a 7hr drive away).
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