3785 Gets a 400 swap, fabbed 180's and fabbed mufflers

Here are some overall shots of the Headers.

My initial count was 48 joints that I need to weld. I better get them apart and start welding!

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraTurbo:
This has got to be one of the coolest posts I have seen in a while. Awesome job on everything. I cant wait till I get my shop.

Blaine

Thanks Blaine!
I keep looking for your "How I built the most bitchen Twin Turbo GR4 Pantera ever" thread.

LOL, Maybe when Im done. Wait... that could be decades. Seriously though excellent work. You fabrication skills are awe inspiring.

Blaine

Here are some pics that will hopefully show how I designed the overlap to keep the RH and LH banks one piece.

Here is the LH header removed.


Here is a shot looking down the collectors. You can see how Cyl's 2 and 3 had to curve down so that 6 and 7 could go over them to the other collector



Pile of spaghetti. I hope I numbered them..

Fascinating. Thanks for taking the time to document your project. Are they all removed as a single unit? Is there a concern for thermal expansion? Quite the undertaking, far, far beyond my abilities. How many times did the block go in and out?

quote:

Originally posted by Husker:
Fascinating. Thanks for taking the time to document your project. Are they all removed as a single unit? Is there a concern for thermal expansion? Quite the undertaking, far, far beyond my abilities. How many times did the block go in and out?

Husker,
each bank is a single unit like a conventional under car header where the 4 pipes are welded to a flange. They come together and the collectors slip on.

I had them tack welded to the flange so I could remove the individual pipes to solid weld the joints. After I finish that then I will hard weld them to the flanges.

I am not concerned about expansion, the system has plenty of room to move.

The engine never came out of the car. The whole thing was built inside the car. The pipes never came out of the car either until the whole thing was tack welded then they were removed.
I saw it outside for the first time when I bolted it to this engine on the dolly.

The mock up engine is still in the car. The engine on the dolly is another 400 block and heads that I have laying around.

We all have individual talents to contribute on this forum. Thats what makes it so awesome. I love reading other peoples build threads and the ideas they come up with. Currently digging MacMans hood vent thread. Very cool.

Quite a Brain Trust here on the PIBB.

I tacked the joints on 4 sides so that nothing would move while removing them from the car. I weld up to the tack then grind and sand the tack off and finish weld the joint.





Fast Fact: 48 joints at 6 inches circumference per joint that is 24 feet of welding just in joints!

I use a vise grip quick clamp to hold the odd shaped pipes in position to weld the joints. I have found this to be better that trying to clamp them to fixtures or in a vise. I ground the welding cable to the metal table and the pipe rests on the table.



The pipes are all welded the lengths came out as follows:
1=39 2=39 3=44 4=44 ½
5=38 6=44 7=42 8=41
This is Interesting as I thought that the #1 and #5 pipes were going to be the longest.

I install the pipes in the car to hard tack them to the flanges. I want to point out that all of the fab has taken place with the gaskets and port plates installed as per the instructions. This is done so that everything is spaced properly for welding.

While the pipes are still tacked in the car I start on the header collector tabs. I use a barrel bolt lock from the hardware store and cut it into the individual tabs. The metal is already formed I just need to bend the ends to fit the curve of the tube.



Here are the pieces all made.
The loop end fits a 5/16 bolt perfect. I will be using 5/16x2 stainless button head bolts with metal lock nuts.
I don’t think the nylon lock nuts will hold up to the heat.



I set them on the pipes using the bar from the kit to align them for tacking.



Here are the tabs tacked in place.

I remove the pipes and mount them in a fixture I made to start work on the tube to flange joint. I start by tacking the tube on a couple of sides.



I made a mandrel that fits the shape of the flange to use to form the ends of the tube to match. I made the mandrel out of some ¼ thick plate that I cut and welded together and shaped

I got this idea from Clayton on the GT40s.com site. Thanks Clayton!
Here is a link to his great 180 build.

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-engines-induction-...tion.html#post236149





I heat the tube and then hit the mandrel with a hammer and that forms most of the shape.



I finish shaping it with a small trim hammer.



Here is a port welded.



I sand the port flat and mount the headers on another engine I have on my work table to weld the outside of the flanges.

Here are some views of the headers that cant be seen while mounted inside the car.
Here is looking at the rear of the pipes showing the overlap.



Here is a top view.



Here is a view from the bottom. Notice how the LH side is closer to the block to clear the fuel tank shield. This was not planned its just how it turned out from fitting the pipes inside the car. You do not notice this from the top.



Here is a view from the bottom of the collectors showing more of the routing.



I start welding the flanges by turning the engine upside-down and welding the bottom.





Then I turn it over and weld the topsides.



I also finish welding the header collector tabs.



I take the headers off of the engine and mount them to the work table and finish off the ports with sanding rolls.
I take the same care that you would take on cylinder heads

Now it is time to finish the collector. Something that I find to be annoying is collector leaks at the flange. I have been able to eliminate them by the following method.
The flanges are 5/16 thick 2 ½ dia and were purchased from Cone engineering.
www.coneeng.com
The thick flanges will not warp or bend. It is important to use thick flanges
Because of the angle my exhaust pipes will be exiting I rotated my flanges slightly.
I mark the flanges at straight up and also find center and mark the collectors.



I will be using fel-pro steel core collector gaskets. I had to file the holes slightly to match the bolt circle of the flanges.



I use 3/16 key stock as a spacer and clamp the flange to the table. I then insert the collector lining up the centerline marks and tack them.



Using the same procedure as the tubes, I weld up to the tack then grind it off and weld the flange solid.





Here is the amount of tube that sticks out from the flange. The gasket is 1/16 thick so there will be 1/8 of tube inside the flange for the muffler pipes. This keeps the exhaust gas pressure from having direct contact with the gasket and significantly extends the life of the gasket.



I also don’t like to hold exhaust pipes to insert bolts so I use a method that makes exhaust hook up very fast and easy.

I weld nuts to the flange and insert a set screw. I use a socket set screw instead of a stud because it has a hex drive on one end and is slightly pointed on the other. The set screw is removable so if the threads get damaged then I insert a new one. I will use nuts and lock washers on this connection.

Wow !!
awesome as ever !!

Here are some pics of the welded and finished pipes back in the car.

Here is a shot looking in through the A/C hole in the back of the body.



More shots from above.













Here is the part where I discuss what I would have done differently if I did it all over again.

I was talking to a friend of mine and he mentioned that Headers by Ed has flanges for the 4V heads and MPG port plates.
Purchasing those would have saved some time.

I might consider buying a pre built merge collector from SPD or Cone. That would also have saved some time.

However,both of these options would add to the cost of the headers.

This project took me a little over two months to complete and cost approx $400 in materials.

I hope people have found the 180 header fabrication portion of my thread informative and helpful.

I get a ton of ideas and inspiration from a lot of places and this is my way of giving back.

I will be building a set of undercar 4-1’s also but I am going to take a break for a while to focus on some other things.
That portion will not be as detailed as this segment was but I hope it will convey some good ideas also.

Wow.

(That's all I'm capable of uttering at the moment.)

Michael

Brooke,

A photo is worth 1000 words and what you have done here is absolutely awesome! Good job. The photo documentation is not only outstanding but I think this sort of thing helps others see how to do things. I will be excited to see your car run.

Gary

I wanted to give big thumbs up to our Pantera racing friends across the pond.
This was one of the many inspirations for my 180 project.

The Dutch Pantera racing team of Team Witch Craft was first featured in the PI Spring 2004 number 118 issue.
They continue to race GR4 looking Panteras across Europe keeping awareness alive.

Their website is:

http://www.twc.dk/galleri.asp

If you click on the "English" button it only translates the opening page.

The 180 fabrication portion of their web page is in "Opbygning of Pantera Henrik".Then click on "Pantera Udstoedning" and that is their 180 build. Facinating use of flexible tubes and foam for modeling the headers.

I can't speak a word of their language and I don't know if they speak English but if anyone from Denmark knows them shake their hand for me.

Here are some pics of their work completed.
To me, this is the ultimate evolution of the Pantera.

I don't know how the &#*$ I missed this thread!!! Wow, great work Brooke!! I really enjoyed reading and looking (ok droooling) at the pictures. It must be a thrill for you.

Thanks for sharing,

-William

Updates?

Unfortunately I don't have any updates Gary, Sorry.

I have been sidetracked with the holidays and rebuilding a nephews dirtbike engine.

I hope to be back working on the car soon.

Currently ,I am enjoying watching you work on your car though.

that is amazing. WOW!

What would be the advantages to using the 180s vs. the undercar or longtube type design?

On a side note, after all this work is 375 HP going to be enough?