What BW says is absolutely true.
The design of the structure in the rear did not have much consideration for longevity to it.
It was a "performance" design from the era by a Formula 1 race car designer.
In addition to a little bracing up in the rear another way of adding needed adjustability would be to use the height adjustable coil overs currently available.
The alignment deed is done. The results are amazing. It demonstrates how poorly a car rides and handles when the alignment is out of whack. As odd as this sounds, I am going to be driving 3518 much more because it's a pleasure not a chore (hey that rhymes). The work was not cheap and it took 4+ hours but well worth it. Check that off my list.
Hi Robbie,
can you post the final specs for your allignment that they did for you?
Cheers, Tim.
can you post the final specs for your allignment that they did for you?
Cheers, Tim.
I've been thinking about posting my specs .. however, this is a tough audience. I'm sure I'll be the subject of many ".. you should have .." comments. But what the hell. Tires: Goodrich TA ,, 205/60-15 and 245/60-15 inflated to 31 and 34 psi respectively.
Front
Caster .. 3.6 and 3.7 degrees, all shims to the front if the upper ball joint. Got all we could.
Camber .. -0.4 degrees
Toe-in .. -0.21 degrees total
Rear
Camber .. -1.6 degrees. Here comes the comments. All of the shims were removed and we couldn't get less camber .. targeted for -1 degree.
Toe-in .. -0.25 degrees total
Per one of my earlier posts, converting from fractions of an inch to degrees is higher math. We actually used 1988 Ferrari Testarosa specs as a reference since it is similar to the Pantera in size, weight, suspension, etc. Comments from this learned group were carefully factored into the mix.
So take your best shot .. it handles well. I'm not a track or autocross guy. A few twisty roads now and then works for me. And this setup feels good .. planted .. straight. Be gentle
Front
Caster .. 3.6 and 3.7 degrees, all shims to the front if the upper ball joint. Got all we could.
Camber .. -0.4 degrees
Toe-in .. -0.21 degrees total
Rear
Camber .. -1.6 degrees. Here comes the comments. All of the shims were removed and we couldn't get less camber .. targeted for -1 degree.
Toe-in .. -0.25 degrees total
Per one of my earlier posts, converting from fractions of an inch to degrees is higher math. We actually used 1988 Ferrari Testarosa specs as a reference since it is similar to the Pantera in size, weight, suspension, etc. Comments from this learned group were carefully factored into the mix.
So take your best shot .. it handles well. I'm not a track or autocross guy. A few twisty roads now and then works for me. And this setup feels good .. planted .. straight. Be gentle
one dimension not stated would be ride height that would effect the amount of rear camber. I am not sure exactly where it should be taken but to me a better indication of ride height as it effects alignment would be arm angles.
some of the notes I have dug up on frame dimensions might help determine the reason.
some of the notes I have dug up on frame dimensions might help determine the reason.
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My observation of the rear lower A-arms is that they were horizontal. I had new Koni gas shock/spring packages from Pantera Performance and I asked them to set the ride height to their best judgment based on my driving requirements. We didn't measure the ride height but visually the height is lower than stock based on tire-to-opening space. I couldn't find what the best height is and where the measurement is taken,
I would think the ride height is most conveniently stated from the bottom of the frame rails to the first horizontal surface, the ground or surface of the alignment machine platform?
Thank you for posting your results.
I think that by changing the compression rates of the springs and shocks from stock that is going to change the specs necessary on the alignment?
I need to go through this soon so this is helpful to me as to where at least to start.
Thank you for posting your results.
I think that by changing the compression rates of the springs and shocks from stock that is going to change the specs necessary on the alignment?
I need to go through this soon so this is helpful to me as to where at least to start.
Hi Robbie,
Many thanks,
Cheers, Tim
Many thanks,
Cheers, Tim
quote:Originally posted by Robbie:
I've been thinking about posting my specs .. however, this is a tough audience. I'm sure I'll be the subject of many ".. you should have .." comments. But what the hell. Tires: Goodrich TA ,, 205/60-15 and 245/60-15 inflated to 31 and 34 psi respectively.
Front
Caster .. 3.6 and 3.7 degrees, all shims to the front if the upper ball joint. Got all we could.
Camber .. -0.4 degrees
Toe-in .. -0.21 degrees total
Rear
Camber .. -1.6 degrees. Here comes the comments. All of the shims were removed and we couldn't get less camber .. targeted for -1 degree.
Toe-in .. -0.25 degrees total
Per one of my earlier posts, converting from fractions of an inch to degrees is higher math. We actually used 1988 Ferrari Testarosa specs as a reference since it is similar to the Pantera in size, weight, suspension, etc. Comments from this learned group were carefully factored into the mix.
So take your best shot .. it handles well. I'm not a track or autocross guy. A few twisty roads now and then works for me. And this setup feels good .. planted .. straight. Be gentle
Tim, FWIW- if the front feels good with that caster, fine. Otherwise, offset upper a-arm bushings (poly) can add up to 2 more degrees, adjustable to 'around 4 degrees' by adding shims back in. Steering effort may go up slightly with more front caster.
The rear camber is further correctable (to zero or very close) with an adjustable rear camber bar that has extended nose sections on each end for bracing. In this design, the bar is not applying all its force to two thin sheet metal tabs. See Hall's straight steel camber bar design, or add nose sections to an aluminum adjustable bar.
The rear camber is further correctable (to zero or very close) with an adjustable rear camber bar that has extended nose sections on each end for bracing. In this design, the bar is not applying all its force to two thin sheet metal tabs. See Hall's straight steel camber bar design, or add nose sections to an aluminum adjustable bar.