Air conditioning

If the Panteras are equipped with the oem York a/c compressors, then that's the problem. By now they leak very badly, can't hold freon, & recharging constantly with R12 is expensive. To swap to R134A is also expensive.

So the owners have chosen to run without them.

The path of least resistance would be a new compressors & drier, a good flushing, a 24 hour purging & a refill with a/c compressor oil and R12 at $30+ per pound.

However, if you have replaced the compressor & drier, you are 1/2 the way towards what is needed to convert to R134A.

cowboy from hell

If you go with R134a, you probably need to rehose the a/c system, too. The old hoses are too porous for the smaller molecules of R134a

Hi So the cost to do this ? I see the compressors at ~$400 or so. Would the evaporator and condensor still work with R 134 ?

When I look at cars for sale I try and estimate the cost to get it to a level I would be happy with. I then bid accordingly. A/C is a big deal when you are in the California Central Valley on the highwway 5 race track

Chris,

that'll be something to discuss with Jerry next Saturday.

All of the elastomer (rubber) in your a/c system is not compatible with R134A, so as Jeff mentioned, you'll need to replace hoses, o-rings, etc. That's why R134A requires a different compressor too, the seals, gaskets etc are made of different materials for the R12 compressor and the R134A compressor. The lubricant is not compatible either, so it must be flushed out and replaced with compatible lubricant. Finally, there's the expansion valve. The R134A will require replacement of the expansion valve to do the job properly.

The drier should be replaced whenever the compressor is replaced, and any 30 year old car needs a new drier.

The condenser is the weak link in the Pantera a/c system, it is small and the associated fan is rather anemic. I would suggest relocating the a/c condenser to the front of the vehicle. Regardless of where the condenser is mounted I also recommend replacement with a larger condenser & more powerful fan assembly. Bill (aka lastpushbutton)has installed the condenser & fan assembly from a different vehicle that fits well & works better, you can contact him for details.

There are several very good cars for sale at PI Motorsports right now, and there are some good ones listed on the Pantera International web site as well. Its a good time to buy if you like yellow! Mike Mayberry at Mayberry Lincoln Mercury in North Hollywood also has an excellent Pantera in his showroon at this time. Mike has my highest recommendation.

best of luck hunting,

George

Hi I will be looking closely at the vehicles this Saturday, that white one with blue strpes is very attractive.

cquirk, I was able to upgrade my A/C to 134a system with new everything except evaporator/blower (the weak link now) for under $700 and a lot of patience and elbow grease; I'm bascially cheap and do enjoy working on the beast. I also had to fabricate a shroud for the larger condenser. It blows cold, too.

Ron

VERY IMPRESSIVE !


Any other pics of the condensor etc would be appreciated.

Two years ago I converted my 88 GMC FROM R12 to R134. I paid $35 to have the R12 evacuated. I bought a recharge and retrofit kit from Autozone for $50. I spent another $12 or maybe $12 times two for some more refrigerant with stop leak. Two years later it is still blowing cold air and now I don't have to pay a shop to add R12. It doesn't freeze me out and the compressor cycles a lot for the first couple of minutes but it didn't cost me a thousand bucks either. A cheaper way to skin the cat.
Art

I have my condensor in the front on my car, and in Az when it is 115 degrees out it blows ice cold. A great improvement.

quote:

Originally posted by cquirk:
...Any other pics of the condensor etc would be appreciated...

There is a pic of Bill's condenser in the current issue of Pantera International magazine, we did a story on his car.

The coming issue (you know the late one) will feature a tech article on relocating the condenser to the front.

cowboy from hell

My condenser, fabricated shroud, 1000cfm fan, and barrier hoses routed out of engine bay. I've since cleaned up the wiring, too.

Ron,

A question just occured to me, does the trunk tub still fit with the wider condenser installed?

cowboy from hell

Yes, the trunk tub will fit with the wider condensor. It is height that is the problem. Here is my version of larger condensor retrofit. The larger condensor was the single biggest improvement in temperature.

Dave,

Is this the P.I. condensor upgrade, or something you searched out?

Details appreciated.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by george pence:
Ron,

A question just occured to me, does the trunk tub still fit with the wider condenser installed?

cowboy from hell

The condenser is a little wider and higher than stock but the tub still fits, George. Note that I also moved the drier out of the engine bay.

Ron

One of the guys here in Arizona installed two new and wider condensors (one on top of the other) with fans and the tub still fits.

Here is a picture as he was installing them

Excellent information guys

Thanks

When 134A first was being introduced to replace R12 in or around 1993-4, the manufacturers recommended changing compressor oils, rubber hoses, reciever/driers and condensers.
In reality you don't need to change anything.
I would say that from personal experience, the York piston compressors don't like the 134A.
They don't addapt well to the higher operating pressure it creates. The Sanyo rotary compressor is what you want.
You can buy a recoditoned one for $100. The adaptor for the York base bracket is $20.
Charge the system with R134a until you get a temperature of about 50 degrees F blowing out of the registers and leave the system alone.
It is factual to say that the R12 is capable of giving you temps in the high 40's from the register.
These are the only two signifigant factors I have come across in the last ten years.
I've converted a bunch of R12 cars so there is a track record with the conversion as far as I am concerned.
FYI, I am being told that the Freeze12 is the simplest way to go. It is cheap, enviornmentally safe and is as cold as R12.
I personally haven't used it yet.
Also check out ebay for R12. A lot of people still have cases of it sitting around and performance wise it is absolutely the most effect refrigerant for automotive applications.