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Best engine

wtrandallwtrandallMember
Have a quick question for the Pantera experts. What do you consider to be the best engine setup, i.e. fuel delivery, heads, stroker specs, cam, etc., using the small block Ford for 1/4 mile performance that is streetable using 92 octane, no super charger or turbo or nitrous?? What 1/4 times would you see?
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markmmarkmBuy now, pay later!
First of all the Pantera makes a lousy drag car. Second I will let you know how 500 HP works on the drag strip in a Pantera in the next month or so. I'm planning a trip to California Speedway for some street legal drag racing. I'm thinking if I can get off the line I might run a low 12 second ET but will see.
You probably will not get two opinions the same for the motor I think thats why PanteraDoug thinks your kidding!

quote:
Originally posted by Wtrandall:
Have a quick question for the Pantera experts. What do you consider to be the best engine setup, i.e. fuel delivery, heads, stroker specs, cam, etc., using the small block Ford for 1/4 mile performance that is streetable using 92 octane, no super charger or turbo or nitrous?? What 1/4 times would you see?
George PGeorge PAdmin.
In a max power question like yours, the downside shall be that the transmission cannot survive unlimited power. About 500 to 550 bhp is all the ZF will transmit before things start breaking under "racing" conditions.

Any cleveland headed (canted valve head) small block stroker in the 400 to 440 cube range has the potential to make "streetable" power in the 600+ bhp range. Streetable is in quotes because it means different things to different people. Fuel injection is the superior way to do fuel, a roller cam the superior way to control the valves. One of the alloy heads, such as the SVO heads (A3, B351, C302), the Yates heads (arguably not really a Cleveland head), the Brodix BF300 heads or the Blue Thunder heads will be your best starting point.

You do not want to build a motor like this using the production 351C or 351W blocks.

By the way, welcome back!

George
wtrandallwtrandallMember
That's better! I like to see various opinions and experiences with engine setups relative to specific objectives. It can provide some good insight and history that allows a person to remain objective and prevent making mistakes. That's why I was not "kidding". Yes, everyone's opinions will vary but those variations are often refinements of indiviudal experiences that provide sound information. For some people it would be nice to be "kidding". Glad I am not one of them.
sickcatsickcatMember
Greetings,
I saw your question as relative to some of mine,
I also noticed you are posting from Bonsall and if you did know already there is a group from the San Diego Pantera's that meet from time to time at the cruising Grand in Escondido on Friday evening's http://www.downtownescondido.com/events/cruisin_grand
There's a couple of the guy's with some fairly modified cars that might be able to help.
Regards Mark
wtrandallwtrandallMember
Thanks for the update on Crusing Grand. Yes, I have been to Grand Cruise Night numerous times. I sometimes take a 1970 Trans Am I own. As soon as I find the right Pantera again I will be driving it to the event on Friday nights! Thanks! See you there?

quote:
Originally posted by Benslick:
Greetings,
I saw your question as relative to some of mine,
I also noticed you are posting from Bonsall and if you did know already there is a group from the San Diego Pantera's that meet from time to time at the cruising Grand in Escondido on Friday evening's http://www.downtownescondido.com/events/cruisin_grand
There's a couple of the guy's with some fairly modified cars that might be able to help.
Regards Mark
D detom (Guest)
I do know that Gary Hall built a Pantera that would run consitant tens in the quarter with a windsor engine. But if you want to get below that you will need to make some radical changes. Ford makes a crate engine with over six hundred cubic inches that will "bolt" right in, but plan on a drag modified power glide and straight 9" rear end and full roll cage. I bet something like that can get into the sevens.
D danieljonesMember
> Have a quick question for the Pantera experts. What do you consider to be the
> best engine setup, i.e. fuel delivery, heads, stroker specs, cam, etc., using
> the small block Ford for 1/4 mile performance that is streetable using 92
> octane, no super charger or turbo or nitrous?? What 1/4 times would you see?

9.5" deck big bore race block (aluminum Fontana, aluminum or iron FRPP, Dart
or World Products), 4.1" stroke forged steel crank, 6.125" or 6.2" rods,
custom forged pistons. 4.1" bore by 4.1" stroke = 433 cubes. The race blocks
cab go to larger bores for 440+ cubes but the 4.1" bore leaves room for a
couple of overbores. Hydraulic roller cam for a mostly street application
or a solid roller for race. For the Pantera, the Ford Motorsport C302 or the
Brodix BF300 heads give the best flow potential with off-the-shelf headers
and carb or fuel injection intake manifolds. Independent runner EFI would
be the most streetable induction. If the budget permits, you'd be looking at
brands like Oliver or Carrillo for the rods and LA Billet, Crower, etc. for
the crank. For tighter budgets, look to SCAT or Eagle. The absolute best
heads available today for something like this is the FRPP D3. The D3 is
a further evolution of the C302B/Yates heads. These heads are capable of
flowing tremendous amounts of air (430+ CFM intake, 280+ CFM exhaust) but
may require a fabricated intake and custom headers.

There are also kits to install big block Fords in Panteras.

> In a max power question like yours, the downside shall be that the
> transmission cannot survive unlimited power. About 500 to 550 bhp is all
> the ZF will transmit before things start breaking under "racing"
> conditions.

That's highly dependent upon traction. I know Junior Wilson ran over 900 HP
through his ZF.

Dan Jones
wtrandallwtrandallMember
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel_Jones:
> Have a quick question for the Pantera experts. What do you consider to be the
> best engine setup, i.e. fuel delivery, heads, stroker specs, cam, etc., using
> the small block Ford for 1/4 mile performance that is streetable using 92
> octane, no super charger or turbo or nitrous?? What 1/4 times would you see?

9.5" deck big bore race block (aluminum Fontana, aluminum or iron FRPP, Dart
or World Products), 4.1" stroke forged steel crank, 6.125" or 6.2" rods,
custom forged pistons. 4.1" bore by 4.1" stroke = 433 cubes. The race blocks
cab go to larger bores for 440+ cubes but the 4.1" bore leaves room for a
couple of overbores. Hydraulic roller cam for a mostly street application
or a solid roller for race. For the Pantera, the Ford Motorsport C302 or the
Brodix BF300 heads give the best flow potential with off-the-shelf headers
and carb or fuel injection intake manifolds. Independent runner EFI would
be the most streetable induction. If the budget permits, you'd be looking at
brands like Oliver or Carrillo for the rods and LA Billet, Crower, etc. for
the crank. For tighter budgets, look to SCAT or Eagle. The absolute best
heads available today for something like this is the FRPP D3. The D3 is
a further evolution of the C302B/Yates heads. These heads are capable of
flowing tremendous amounts of air (430+ CFM intake, 280+ CFM exhaust) but
may require a fabricated intake and custom headers.

There are also kits to install big block Fords in Panteras.

> In a max power question like yours, the downside shall be that the
> transmission cannot survive unlimited power. About 500 to 550 bhp is all
> the ZF will transmit before things start breaking under "racing"
> conditions.

That's highly dependent upon traction. I know Junior Wilson ran over 900 HP
through his ZF.

Dan Jones
rapidrapidMember
I like Dan's idea's on the ideal engine parts, especially since he mostly described my engine (Aluminum Fontana block, C302B heads, Stroker forged steel crank, custom forged pistons, solid roller cam, Roush manifold w/ Mighty Demon 750cfm, custom 180 exhaust, etc.. You can probably find a lot of combinations for a great engine. I think that the weak point would be the ZF, especially with combos over 600hp. I think that constant hard launch's would take their toll on the ZF. I think that is why you see them used more on high speed road racing venue's.
markmmarkmBuy now, pay later!
Oh I like the way my Pantera feels launching too, but The design of the rear suspension itself doesent make for good 60 foot times or traction.
On second thought maybe its just the driver. I'm much better with an automatic.

I duno I like the way it launches with the weight in the back. I had pretty good 60ft times![/QUOTE]
D detom (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by comp2:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Mensen:
First of all the Pantera makes a lousy drag car.


I duno I like the way it launches with the weight in the back. I had pretty good 60ft times!

Gary the car does launch great. You just have to granny shift is all and that is what kills it. Imagine if you could bang shift without the clutch, that thing would dominate whatever drag class it was in.
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