Just had installed replacement clutch master cylinder and slave yesterday, purchased from PIM. I sure hope I don't experience the same problems you've had. I've had that kind of experience with water pumps on my XKR, on my 5th one. Very frustrating.
If it were me, I would stop buying the same MC from a certain vendor and call one of the Alfa specialists above and buy from them. The ATE cylinders seem to have a drop in replacement.
If someone has a MC accessible and is willing to make the measurements, send them to me and I will gladly call some of the Alfa suppliers to investigate a reliable source for this issue. I think basic overall dimensions, the bore size, and the length of the shaft and clevis would be helpful.
Panterapatt - thank you, thank you, thank you for taking this on! The clutch slave cylinders would be next as they are garbage as well. My Pantera had an old ATE cylinder on it (see post above) - I'll see what dimensions I can pull from that one for comparison.
Mr. Fiat sell one for Alfas that looks like my ATE (and the OEM), I may have some dimensions on that when I investigated it with them a year or so ago.
Sounds good. ATE and Benditalia are the two makes.
Both of the below options look to be usable. They both have the correct 19.0mm or 3/4" bore. The first is an exact match and the second is only different in the shape and attachment of the reservoir.
Alfa Romeo GTV-6 - 1981-1985 Centric part# 136.02101 (Discontinued) (Exact Match)
Alfa Romeo Alfetta - 1975-1977 Centric part# 136.02100 (Reservoir is different)
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What is the story on the centric brand? Where is it made?
I don't know who Centric is but the cylinder is an ATE 386066
AW ITALIAN AUTO PARTS Has the ATE brand in stock for $189.00.
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I just spoke with one of the Alfa parts suppliers. He said ATE is German - good quality. They sell a brand called "Interbrake" which is Italian. He said they rarely have one of these returned due to leakage. Still working on part numbers for both but the one above "looks" correct. From the excel parts sheet, and the one on my car is a Benditialia 1409345. That is the original OEM piece. Bore measured 0.7465 inches (18.96 mm) and had a max stroke 1.25 inches (31.74 mm)
The original Clutch hard line is copper, and copper can turn "Black". Could it be coming from the hardline? I don't know if Steve is running an original clutch line or not. Just throwing this out there for a source of the black substance in the brake fluid. Just a thought.
My car #2605, does not have a copper line. My latest master turned the fluid dark after 100 miles and also has black bits in it. The results are the SAME for DOT3 or DOT4 fluid!
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Here is what I believe to be replacements for both the clutch master and slave. Manufacturers are ATE (German) and Interbrake (Italian). We need dimensions from an original to dial this in but the dimensions I can get off the web and previous cross references other Pantera owners have done align to these Alfa Romeo parts:
Clutch Master ATE: https://web.tecalliance.net/at...:60730497;groups:234
Clutch Slave ATE: https://web.tecalliance.net/at...berType:0;groups:620
Clutch Master Interbrake: https://centerlinealfa.com/cat...-master-cylinder-115
Reservoir (is ATE): https://centerlinealfa.com/cat...clutch-reservoir-115
or
https://www.awitalian.com/prod...inder-60730497.html/
Clutch Slave Interbrake: https://centerlinealfa.com/cat...ave-cylinder-115-119
Unfortunately the original Benditalia p/n 1409345 seems missing in action. But I get references back to the Alfa GTV6 as the source which is what the above parts are for.
Hope it helps. I was told by one of the leading Alfa parts suppliers here in the US that both ATE and Interbrake produce quality parts and they have NO issues with them. I guess one of you guys need to take the plunge and buy one of these and experiment. Anything is better than continuing to buy shit that leaks.
One thing I have not been able to confirm is the mounting hole spacing. I was told the Interbrake unit is about 50mm.
Thanks Panterapatt! I am waiting on next steps from my vendor (who has been very nice about this year long struggle) before I buy the ATE master.
The ATE master that was in my car as received appears to have a 17mm bore. It seemed to function fine on the 20 mile drive home after I bought the car, but it was leaking - this car had probably been driven less than 150 miles in 7+ years, so lots of sitting with old fluid in it.
Rocky - that old part probably still functions better than the new parts!
Rocky - that is an original oem Benditalia. Don’t trash that just yet. Rob- ATE has rebuild kits but I wouldn’t waste the calories. Can one of you make some measurements of the exterior and interior dimensions please. Bolt spacing, bore, stroke?
Sometimes in fuel, brake and clutch flex lines, carbon extracted from the rubber can stain the fluid after awhile. This is not necessarily an indication of imminent failure, just soaking age. The black plastic reservoir screw-cap may also fail along with its seal. There's a nice aluminum screw cap sold cheap by Pegasus Racing that fits Girling reservoirs. Mine's been on my aluminum Girling clutch master for many decades. This unit has no plastic reservoir but is cast with the body.
I've read on some Forum that certain iron castings are slightly attacked by some brake/clutch fluids. Their fix came from changing fluids. Some OEM Bendix-Italia (Benditalia) cylinders seem to be made of this stuff. All my cylinders are anodized aluminum, all the internals are stainless steel and all flex lines are teflon lined braided stainless. I changed all possible o-rings in the car to Viton or teflon. No leaks but my GM plastic brake reservoir still discolors tannish. I think its the plastic they use.
Has anyone found/tried a Wilwood clutch master that fits the Pantera?