Calliper anti vibration plates

Richard, IIRC they are different than the Pantera. The good thing is our brakes are Girling, so you can find components locally (UK)in your case. try crosthwaiteandgardiner.com or http://www.sngbarratt.com


Denis

Denis you are what i call "the BOAK" (book of all knowledge) sorry to keep asking but you all seem to have far more experience than me, especially finding things - all i can assume that you have spent ages researching. Thanks again for your help. I will post some pics soon of work done so far. Richard.

I've never heard Denis called THAT before, but you are right that he is a great source of knowledge about all things Mangusta. Between him, Steve L, Johnny Woods and a few others, the rest of us can sleep at night!

Mark

good luck on Crosswaite, I asked them for these (anti-rattle plates) with no success...I ended up sourcing a bit shorter ones from a TR3A..looks like they will just work...Lee

Lee you are right, i have got the same result. I can get them re-manufactured but they want to do a larger number off. I have managed to acquire a few sheets of various strength spring steel, tomorrow i have arranged to get them laser cut then the fun begins - i am going to try to bend them into shape! Think heat to allow bending then re-harden (heat and quench) see how it goes, i will keep you posted. Apparently the callipers are a race calliper and originally only used the triangular retaining plate, the anti rattle plate they say is aftermarket (unknown to girling) because these callipers are/were for use in racing and rattle of pads would not be an issue. So i am told? Richard

...at least with my 3 piston fronts, I think the pads would just fall out without these ! The 2 piston versions had the giant triangle, attached is a picture from 8ma1046...The triangle bracket from 8mA1076 (just 15 cars later, but different brakes !) is a different shape.

brakes from 1076 shown below....these are the 3 piston parts, part numbers 64320163/64325110

...btw, just to wash away that bitter taste of 40 year old rust, here is a sweet taste of the dessert...after disassembly, bead blasting, plating, new seals, stainless pistons, new piping...I kept these on my kitchen counter for weeks, they just looked so good

split halves...

Thanks, great pics and ideas! Here is a Girling ORA rear from 1010, w/ one anti-rattle plate missing. Regards to all, Nate

ALRIGHT!!!! People gettin' busy with BRAKES!!!! Good work!!!

I think that the spring steel, with a proper die or press form, should take the little bit of bending that is needed to put the "V" in the material of the anti rattle pieces.

As was pointed out, the other triangular pieces are closer to 3/32" thick and retain the pads. The larger stamped piece is indeed spring steel and keeps the pads from rattling....but are not needed if they are missing.....

These were "quick change" pads! (or calipers..)

Keep up the good work guys!!! You'll be on the road in no time!

Just remember, only clean parts on kitchen surfaces...no grungy bits!!!

Steve

Lee,

so 1076 came with the three piston front brakes??????

What are the piston dimensions? (if you have access to them!)

I have a seal kit for a Group5 Pantera caliper, which I believe was a 3 piston front caliper also, but may or may not be larger than what you have, which is why I ask!

I'd always heard about the 3 piston front version, just never seen one on a Goose yet!!!

Yea!
Steve

Steve, I don't suppose you've been holding your breath on my reply , but just for the record--
- the pistons on the Girling 17/3 are 60mm and 43mm.
- As I can tell, brakes changed around 8ma1056 or later--at least, pictures on Provamo show that '1056 had the 2 piston aluminum brakes, and by my '1076 they had gone to the Girling 17/3 and 12/3.
- The 3C brakes were used for years on all Maserati (until Merak/Bora), plus Lamborghini, Aston (including the V8 AMS thru the 70's), and documentation says S2 Jaguar. Or at least, castings continued to change but service kits were the same SP2577. You can even get the steel pistons on Rockauto for $12 (of course, I went stainless). http://www.vintagelamborghini....irling/brakxr11.html

- Us lucky guys with heavy iron brake calipers can also get rattle plates from Maseratinet...Maserati part was 58699, later (Ghibli/Indy) had ventilated discs and so used a spacer between left/right caliper castings, so I believe the right ones for Goose are the "narrow" ones used starting on the 3500GT...
https://www.maseratinet.com//p...e-spring-narrow.aspx

--I think brake hoses (at least rear) also shared with Aston DB6, aka GHP-71.

great reference, the mother of all Girling in the 60's here.

Lee,

OK! Finally I can breathe again.....!!!

Great info you've dug up here on the clips and calipers. I knew the 12/3 (rear style) were used on a few cars (like mine!) but not too common. I'd heard about the 17/3's up front and on the Group5 Panteras(???) but never run across them on the Goose but for rumors & whispers....

If all the cars around 1076 and up got the 3 piston cast iron behemoths....that's about a quarter of the production run which is significant!

I confirmed that the SP2524 seal kit is the same as I found for the 12/3 rear calipers.

What did you find for the seal kit for the 17/3 fronts???? (I didn't see anything in the XLS doc that I could decipher...but hard to tell from the list unless you know the caliper assembly part number....and the magic decoder ring is missing.....!) All I could tell, is that the 12/3's were used up front on the 3500 GT's?

Amazing that those small 12/3 pistons are so easy to find now..... I had to order them from the UK and a club member hauled them back here in '96-97 or so!

Cheers!

Rear kits (for the 12/3) are the SP 2524 (SP2577 are for the big fronts). On 1076, none of the markings are Fiat (only Girling). See earlier discussion on this, at least Denis still had 2 piston rears...!

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...562/m/1661053146/p/2

I saw the pictures of the handbrake caliper, and it looks suspiciously like the one on my Jensen Interceptor Mk 111.

the main calipers look different, but PERHAPS this might be of some value... If not - I apologize for cluttering up this post.

Disassembled

Lee,
OK, typing too early in the morning....

I had my notes a bit jumbled and got the kit numbers messed up...old notes....old eyeballs! Corrected in post above also..... Thanks for catching this!

I also suspect there may be more than one kit# for some of these calipers......

Rocky,
OK, your bits shown reveal that Girling musta made at least three types of this hand brake linkage over the years......

The Goose type used on the 12/3 AND the ORA (2 piston) calipers of stamped steel variety, perhaps an early verion with cast arms holding the pads, and now your variety of stamped pieces.

Cheers!

I just realised I started this discussion and never returned to it! Anyway I was successful in making the anti-rattle/pad retainers, I had about forty blanks cut from sheet spring steel, experimenting I found that trying to bend the blanks as is, caused them to split but heating them evenly to cherry red allowed me to bend to the shape but when cool they didn’t hold the shape, I found reheating and quenching made them hold their shape and spring. I will post some pictures later.

Good show!!!! Nothing like learning new stuff.....about old cars!

Cheers!

This is the best shot I can get due to having to use the flash.

Awaiting install

.

...beautiful work, guys...! Lee

Just as a note.....not sure about rear calipers, but my front alloy "CR's" had dates stamped in them, presumably from unit assembly at Girling....VERY tiny characters....easy to miss!

In addition to window dates, for some of you, this can help nail down when your car was built.....sort of!

Good work! Keep it up!

Rocky, Yes, in fact the attached references say that the Jensen Mk3 used the same Girling 17/3 front and 12/3 rear (same, meaning the same casting as used for years on Lambo/Maserati and Mangusta). Volvo P1800 also used Girling 17/3, but these are a different casting (and may be a different center, I suppose 3.0" instead of 3.5"). The picture you show for the rears shows the spacer used with the ventilated disk (as used for later Maserati).

So many cars used these brakes, still (when the cars were Lambo, Iso Grifo, and Maserati!) only the service parts (rebuild kits and pistons) grow on trees...Lee

These are the rear calipers from 8MA1244 when I rebuilt them a few years back.

I was told they were the same as Lister Jag and big block Cobra

Yeah, Denis, I'm learning that the wrong thing is to ever assume there was anything 'correct' for a Mangusta….Esp, it seems the change to the 3 piston iron Girlings wasn't a permanent change! My 1076 neither had the leather wrapped steering wheel (as I can tell, maybe only a handful of cars had a wood only Ferrero, no leather wrap) and the 3 piston brakes seem to be a similar exception...Lee

There are variations with Girling calipers: 2 styles on fronts and 2 styles on rears. Don't know if it was based on order or part availability. I am trying to recall some 2, 3, 4 piston calipers, some calipers in cast others in aluminium, and front rotors 292x14 and rears 268x12,5 or 280x12,5

here is a composite from 3 build sheets

Denis,

I didn't notice the dates stamped into your rear calipers! Just visible..... Looks like Oct 2 of 68 or 69 (8 or 9)???? Perhaps you can clarify??? I would expect a 69 date for your car!

Great!!! Was unknown as to dates in the rear alloy versions, now we know "at least one did!"!!

Caliper Summary Time!

FRONT: Type "CR" 2 pistons, 2-3/8" diam. Alloy one piece casting. "Typical"
Seal Kit #SP2502.

Type "17/3" 3 pistons 60mm and 43mm Cast iron two piece castings. "Later cars" Seal Kit #SP2577

REAR: Type "ORA" 2 pistons, 1-3/4" diam(?). Alloy one piece casting with parking brake. "Typical but interspersed with 12/3 type thru production. Seal Kit #SP2557 (???)

Type "12/3" 3 pistons, 42.8mm (1.685") and 30.2mm (1.189"). Cast iron two piece castings with parking brake, can be marked "Fiat-Girling" Used on Fiat 2300 sedans and perhaps Fiat Dino's. Seal Kit #2524
Pads are Jag E-type 69-75

Parking Brake Pads: (I believe these to be the same for all, not dependent on caliper body.
#GPS518H, GDB518, GD518, MGB518 Lotus Elan, Plus 2, Climax, and Elite models.

Master Cylinder Seals: #4115452 7/8" "Fiat Seal" Round donut seal. Many M/C and Clutch apps!


NONE of these had crossover passageways ala Pantera calipers, but used external crossover tubing.

Bleeder screws for CR's and ORA's are same as Fords of the day...Mustang etc...at least they can be substituted... Can't say about 3 piston versions....maybe.

OK, that's what I recall,,,,can edit post to put in ?? values or take ?? out.

Now I can forget this....and remember something else useless.....!

Ciao!

Steve, the piston sizes for 17/3 were 60mm and 43mm; rear 12/3 were (I think) 43 and 30mm (but some references for 12/3 variants show 38/30mm and kit 2531, or 48/34mm and kit 2526). Just search ebay for stainless pistons on Maserati or Lamborghini..The seal kit for brakes on '1076 is the SP2524.

Denis, I was deeply afraid the answer on brakes would be in the buildsheet , but am interested if anybody has aluminum rear calipers on their Goose. 2 of the 3 build sheets quote "alluminio" for the rears and I see "Ghise" means "pig iron..." But aren't these reversed ? Lee

Guys, thanks for all the good info. I went ahead and ordered anti-vibration plates from MIE (great find, Lee!) and will post a pic when they arrive. Also wanted to share two links which illustrate a group of Girling race calipers, apparently available from the UK. The alloy ORA is shown but not with it's hand brake accessory.

http://race.parts/files//7dbe4...a/Girling%20page.pdf

http://race.parts/Catalogue/Br...ers/Girling-Calipers

Sorry not sure how to link those! Anyway for the iron Girling rears my records show:
Large piston 42.8mm (1.685")
Small Pistons 30.2mm (1.189")
(These numbers are from the same basic caliper on a Fiat Dino). I believe there were different iron caliper versions with different pistion sizes, but don't know what is normal for the Goose....I've only seen alloy Goose ORA's up close.

Richard, nice work on those plates!

Ok, guess they link automatically Raceparts does have a selection of rubber Heim joint boots too, which seem hard to source reliable/economically.

OK, I have updated the post above with the corrected piston diameters. Thanks!!!

I also added the seal kit #'s and the M/C seal number. The ORA (two piston alloy) seal kit needs to be verified. My notes are getting a bit ragged and cluttered.....!

Nate- I noticed rubber booties in the past from some place in the US, for WAY less $$ than the normal supplier of the Heim joints. Std US sizes...but the rubber doesn't care what you put inside it!!!! Can't recall who it was that also found this.....must be posted somewhere on this site!!!???

PS: The racing ORA's wouldn't have parking brake bits on them.....just more stuff to fall off the cars....!

Cheers!