Hi all,anybody do electric power steering from a company in Florida,any pictures of installation or information will be greatly appreciated the installation instructions were not very good
Thanks Jimmy
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There's a good discussion on EPAS options in this thread;
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...044/m/7901028456/p/1
Who are the company in FL?
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...044/m/7901028456/p/1
Who are the company in FL?
Hello Jimmy,
I know of two kits that are being marketed for installation in Pantera's.
EZSteer from Europe and what I assume you have purchased, the EPAS unit.
The only installation of the EPAS unit that I know of was done by SCOTT BELL of SACC restorations. He posts often on this forum. He has a advertising banner at the top of the page.
He also found the installation process to be in need of improvement and in fact is working with the seller to perfect their Pantera kit.
I have exchanged emails with Scott and he expects to have a revised and improved Pantera kit ready for market hopefully later in February.
I suggest you reach out to him for questions on installing the early not ready for primetime kit you currently have.
Larry
I know of two kits that are being marketed for installation in Pantera's.
EZSteer from Europe and what I assume you have purchased, the EPAS unit.
The only installation of the EPAS unit that I know of was done by SCOTT BELL of SACC restorations. He posts often on this forum. He has a advertising banner at the top of the page.
He also found the installation process to be in need of improvement and in fact is working with the seller to perfect their Pantera kit.
I have exchanged emails with Scott and he expects to have a revised and improved Pantera kit ready for market hopefully later in February.
I suggest you reach out to him for questions on installing the early not ready for primetime kit you currently have.
Larry
quote:Who are the company in FL?
That is EPAS. Sarasota.
Larry
http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/..._Tomaso_Pantera.html
Current price for the Pantera EPAS unit is about 1,500 Euros. It is speed sensitive, so the faster you go, the less assist you have. The base level of assist is also adjustable.
Current price for the Pantera EPAS unit is about 1,500 Euros. It is speed sensitive, so the faster you go, the less assist you have. The base level of assist is also adjustable.
Hi Jimmy,
I would suggest you give me a call regarding that unit. As Larry has stated, you have the unit as they are currently selling before the modifications I am proposing. I have one installed in my Pantera as well.
Take care, Scott
I would suggest you give me a call regarding that unit. As Larry has stated, you have the unit as they are currently selling before the modifications I am proposing. I have one installed in my Pantera as well.
Take care, Scott
Just my curiousity...
Scott, would you have any comments on the Current requirements (alternator and copper sizes) and heat disapation from the motor.
Scott, would you have any comments on the Current requirements (alternator and copper sizes) and heat disapation from the motor.
quote:Anyone ever tried this??
David,
I .....think..... the Saturn Vue/Chevy Equinox unit sourced for the YouTube conversion is the same unit used by EPAS (Florida). I've studied the photos and talked to Gerry Romack who has done several of the EZSteer (Netherlands) conversions but still do not know their source car for their conversion, but they say their kits use NSK and Toyo. The Saturn unit is Toyo.
If the Saturn steering shaft can be mounted to match the Pantera's cabin length, I'm sure the lower connection could be figured out. It is doubtful the Saturn shaft diameter and spline count matches our Pantera (which is ford Capri), but since most of us are using an aftermarket wheel, a proper adapter hub for a Saturn could probably work just fine for most of us.
The Great Lakes Pantera chapter website has a pictorial and some text on one of the conversions that Gerry did.
http://www.greatlakespantera.c...20the%20Pantera1.pdf
Searching Google and YouTube turns up many links on these conversions. While keeping in mind that this is a steering system, it does appear to be within the range of hobbyists with the proper knowledge, patience and tools.
Larry
The OEM application for the EPAS motor used by EZ Electric in its Pantera kit, is Nissan.
Since they (EZSteer) are based in the Netherlands they may be using a Nissan model not imported to the USA.
Do you know if there is a USA version that uses that Nissan piece, and if so what model and year range?
Larry
Do you know if there is a USA version that uses that Nissan piece, and if so what model and year range?
Larry
This seems to be a hot topic of late and the market is widening just as rapidly.
I am starting to look around for a different application, a 280Z that I am flaring and widening.
I first came across the EPAS on a race car and that unit was very compact, with a simple knob for effort increase/reduction. If space is limited the race units may be a way to go and could possibly be mounted under the front hood in place of the short intermediate shaft on the rack.
Although as 2 (almost drop in) Pantera units are available, albeit at cost I'm more interested to hear what pick 'n' pull solutions people are coming up with and more photo's of Doug's experience are welcome. I might see how much I can pick up a Fiesta unit to play with.
Julian
I am starting to look around for a different application, a 280Z that I am flaring and widening.
I first came across the EPAS on a race car and that unit was very compact, with a simple knob for effort increase/reduction. If space is limited the race units may be a way to go and could possibly be mounted under the front hood in place of the short intermediate shaft on the rack.
Although as 2 (almost drop in) Pantera units are available, albeit at cost I'm more interested to hear what pick 'n' pull solutions people are coming up with and more photo's of Doug's experience are welcome. I might see how much I can pick up a Fiesta unit to play with.
Julian
Honestly, of all the mods we do to our cars, I can't really see the big advantage in this one.
Having a proper suspension and steering setup is absolutely necessary. Being able to take your hands off the wheel at speed without worrying about it getting darty is a requirement. But power steering never made it on a 'to do' list for any of my cats.
These aren't daily drivers, so you're not constantly cranking full lock getting in and out of parking spots. And at speed - even very low speed - I like the unassisted feel of Pantera steering. Whether on my original 8" 15s or 10" 17s, even on my latest car with 245/35/19s I never found the need for power steering. And I'm an OLD guy.
What am I missing? Why is it so popular and why do so many people tell me I will love it?
Having a proper suspension and steering setup is absolutely necessary. Being able to take your hands off the wheel at speed without worrying about it getting darty is a requirement. But power steering never made it on a 'to do' list for any of my cats.
These aren't daily drivers, so you're not constantly cranking full lock getting in and out of parking spots. And at speed - even very low speed - I like the unassisted feel of Pantera steering. Whether on my original 8" 15s or 10" 17s, even on my latest car with 245/35/19s I never found the need for power steering. And I'm an OLD guy.
What am I missing? Why is it so popular and why do so many people tell me I will love it?
It's my understanding the unit EZ uses in the Pantera kit is from a Japanese market Nissan. EZ makes EPAS conversions for over 100 different makes/models of cars. They use new EPAS motors made by Koyo and NSK. They modify the firmware code in these units to suit each application. They say that's more difficult and time consuming than the physical installation. Their goal is for each installation to appear and feel like it came from the factory that way. They considered a few different EPAS motors before they settled on the one that's in the Pantera kit. Their Pantera kit is now TÜV approved so even Roland Jackael (DeTomaso Germany) has one in his own Pantera. Another Pantera vendor who's installed a few EZ kits is Don Byars. In fact, his Facebook site has at least one video of him driving an EZ equipped Pantera.
Further to Julian's comments, DC Electronics in the UK makes the most compact EPAS kit that I've come across. That unit is called the "Lightweight Assembly" and is fully user programmable. The software uses a 3D map (like a fuel injection ECU) that varies assist based on speed and load.
http://www.ultimatepowersteeri...sted-steering-epas-1
Another route to EPAS, that no one has mentioned here, is to use an EPAS steering rack. Bill Taylor, who made the wiring diagrams we all rely on (on the Pantera Place web site), has a Honda S2000 EPAS steering rack in his Pantera. If I were doing it all over again, I'd be picking Bill's brain! Then I could use Jon Haas' non-EPAS C6 'vette steering column conversion too.
Further to Julian's comments, DC Electronics in the UK makes the most compact EPAS kit that I've come across. That unit is called the "Lightweight Assembly" and is fully user programmable. The software uses a 3D map (like a fuel injection ECU) that varies assist based on speed and load.
http://www.ultimatepowersteeri...sted-steering-epas-1
Another route to EPAS, that no one has mentioned here, is to use an EPAS steering rack. Bill Taylor, who made the wiring diagrams we all rely on (on the Pantera Place web site), has a Honda S2000 EPAS steering rack in his Pantera. If I were doing it all over again, I'd be picking Bill's brain! Then I could use Jon Haas' non-EPAS C6 'vette steering column conversion too.
I very much see the advantages of power steering. Big tires make an obvious need for it. Getting around in any lot or small area is defiantly a benefit when slow, but there is much benefit at speed.
Caster was limited in a stock Pantera and cars without power steering. When power steering got better cars started dumping a lot more caster into cars.
When you fly an airplane you have a trim wheel. The trim wheel takes the pressure off the flight controls so you can be smooth. An example would be stick you arm straight out with a 5lb weight and try to paint with a paint brush. Remove the weight and see if you can paint smoother. It has nothing to do with if you are man enough to paint while holding a 5lb weight, it's about the quality of the paint job.
Problem with many power steering conversions is the great amount of details from feedback to rack changes and issues are not dealt with and people hate the conversion. It does not make it a bad idea, just a bad conversion.
I am using an electric pump with a hydraulic rack. I am quite happy with the result but would wish what I went through to get there on no one. My pump is mounted under the front trunk where people drop their batteries into. The rack was modified in a very lengthy process to eliminate bump steer.
Caster was limited in a stock Pantera and cars without power steering. When power steering got better cars started dumping a lot more caster into cars.
When you fly an airplane you have a trim wheel. The trim wheel takes the pressure off the flight controls so you can be smooth. An example would be stick you arm straight out with a 5lb weight and try to paint with a paint brush. Remove the weight and see if you can paint smoother. It has nothing to do with if you are man enough to paint while holding a 5lb weight, it's about the quality of the paint job.
Problem with many power steering conversions is the great amount of details from feedback to rack changes and issues are not dealt with and people hate the conversion. It does not make it a bad idea, just a bad conversion.
I am using an electric pump with a hydraulic rack. I am quite happy with the result but would wish what I went through to get there on no one. My pump is mounted under the front trunk where people drop their batteries into. The rack was modified in a very lengthy process to eliminate bump steer.
Anybody that doubts the benefit of Power Steering in a Pantera has not driven a Pantera with Power Steering.
I also didn't think I needed it until I installed a PS unit in my car. It transforms the driving experience. Just moving around from the garage to the driveway is fun.
I then took my car out onto the race track. I also thought I needed speed sensitive Power Steering. Guess what, I set the knob to the power lever I liked and never touched it again. No need to change the boost level for each part of the track. Set it once and forget it. Just like the guy on the video said.
The unit from EPAS in Florida is compact and looks almost identical to the Netherlands unit. The beauty of these units is there is not much that needs to be cut under the dash. And, anything that gets cut doesn't preclude you from being able to reinstall the original column.
I also didn't think I needed it until I installed a PS unit in my car. It transforms the driving experience. Just moving around from the garage to the driveway is fun.
I then took my car out onto the race track. I also thought I needed speed sensitive Power Steering. Guess what, I set the knob to the power lever I liked and never touched it again. No need to change the boost level for each part of the track. Set it once and forget it. Just like the guy on the video said.
The unit from EPAS in Florida is compact and looks almost identical to the Netherlands unit. The beauty of these units is there is not much that needs to be cut under the dash. And, anything that gets cut doesn't preclude you from being able to reinstall the original column.
quote:Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
Anybody that doubts the benefit of Power Steering in a Pantera has not driven a Pantera with Power Steering.
I agree! And in combination with the (quick) 2,4 steering rack it really starts to make sense.
quote:OK. I'll stop.
That unit is HUGE compared to the others...
quote:Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Further to Julian's comments, DC Electronics in the UK makes the most compact EPAS kit that I've come across. That unit is called the "Lightweight Assembly" and is fully user programmable. The software uses a 3D map (like a fuel injection ECU) that varies assist based on speed and load.
http://www.ultimatepowersteeri...sted-steering-epas-1
Another route to EPAS, that no one has mentioned here, is to use an EPAS steering rack.
David,
Great minds...... I looked at DC Electronics web page and thought about posting a link, but then thought well if anyone is spending that money they will probably opt for one of the 2 tried and tested units.
Here's their direct link, it seems a bit of a surreptitious route from the UK to Australia to the US!
http://www.dcelectronics.co.uk/Products/EPAS/
Julian
quote:Post some pics. What have you got?
I guess you're not paying attention.
I have the EPAS unit from the company in Florida. I am working with them to make the unit more user friendly for Pantera owners. Their unit is available today via Jegs, SACC and other venders but unless you are able to do some fabrication work, the installation may be a challenge. I am working to correct those issues so the install is simple and easy. Someone like you, or many of the other folks on this forum with mechanical skills, could purchase this unit today and get it installed without much issue.
Doug,
When I looked on eBay to see what used EPAS units sell for there were "controller kits" for $55 that included wiring.
For the person who wants to be able to dial the assist up or down (multiple drivers?) and have VSS control, it should not be hard to wire a potentionmeter in the VSS circuit.
Julian
When I looked on eBay to see what used EPAS units sell for there were "controller kits" for $55 that included wiring.
For the person who wants to be able to dial the assist up or down (multiple drivers?) and have VSS control, it should not be hard to wire a potentionmeter in the VSS circuit.
Julian
I will be installing an EPAS unit as well on the new build. I got a Cobalt SS unit for free so thats what I am using. My friend and I are reverse engineering the GMLan messages to find what the EPAS system requires for input in order to use the Variable assist based on speed. That being said you guys will likely have yours up and running and lots of testing miles done before I get my car back on the road.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Do you have a link to any of them?
You don't have eBay search on your computer?
I try to avoid posting links that expire to make it easier for anyone who wants to reference the thread in future.
Julian
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
My thought was that it is far simpler to find a vehicle application that already would have similarities to the Pantera.Maybe a 911 unit? I haven't looked at those yet.One of the big Porsches have got to have PS in them. The Cayenne maybe?
The Cayenne is an SUV so I don't see any similarities there! LOL
Porsche has had power steering in the 911 since 1993 but they started using electric power steering in 2011. Porsche uses an electric power steering rack in these cars. In the 911, not only does your assist decrease with speed, the number of turns lock-to-lock increases as well. Fortunately, the variable ratio is an option.
quote:Originally posted by David_Nunn:
Another route to EPAS, that no one has mentioned here, is to use an EPAS steering rack. Bill Taylor, who made the wiring diagrams we all rely on (on the Pantera Place web site), has a Honda S2000 EPAS steering rack in his Pantera. If I were doing it all over again, I'd be picking Bill's brain!
Now you caught my attention. The power rack solves the space under the dash problem. I will strongly consider that. How do I contact Bill?
Steve
There was previous discussion on the email thread that 2 UK Panteras were converted with BMW power steering racks, but no details emerged.
Bill is at SOBill at aol.com
Bill is at SOBill at aol.com
For people who are determined to put together their own EPAS columns, whether it be to save a few hundred dollars or simply for the challenge and/or satisfaction; the Opel Corsa B&C units seem to be popular with the kit car crowd, including the GT40 kit crowd. These units are VERY compact, so they would be easy to adapt to the Pantera's column. Since they are so popular, there's lots of info available on wiring, adaptation and modifications (eg. speed sensitivity). You'll never find one on this side of the pond but they are readily available in the UK and Europe. In fact, there are vendors that sell used ones that have been checked-out and are guaranteed to be fully operational. These same vendors sell installation parts, control boxes, etc. Here's one such vendor:
http://www.rallywiz.com/Shop/p...ing-column-kits.html
If you want to build your own, this is an easy way to go.
http://www.rallywiz.com/Shop/p...ing-column-kits.html
If you want to build your own, this is an easy way to go.
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Bill Taylor did indeed attempt to install a Honda electric steering rack in his Pantera. However, I recently heard that the project never materialized to a proper finished product and he wound up shelving the attempt.
Larry
Larry
quote:
T.Solo wrote:
Now you caught my attention. The power rack solves the space under the dash problem. I will strongly consider that. How do I contact Bill?
Steve
Julian provided Steve with Bill's e-mail address. Let's leave it with Steve. I'm sure he'll report back.
Email sent.
Steve
Steve
I thought I heard the SOBill was having computer problems so a call might be needed
The guys in FL that sell the Pantera EPAS unit also sell an universal rack....
http://epasperformance.com/ele...power-steering-rack/
But the Pantera is almost as limited under the front as it is under the dash!
http://epasperformance.com/ele...power-steering-rack/
But the Pantera is almost as limited under the front as it is under the dash!
Julian,
I spoke with them about that rack. Unfortunately, it won't work in a Pantera. It is only available in a rear mount configuration.
I spoke with them about that rack. Unfortunately, it won't work in a Pantera. It is only available in a rear mount configuration.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
If you are in Europe you want the Fiat Punto. If you are in the US you want the Ford Fiesta unit. They are almost the same and you will not find a more compact unit.
The REASON I dropped the pursuit of the Fiat part was that the Fiesta unit is for all intents and purposes the same part.
This also brings up a question as to age and iterations of EPS. The Fiat Punto has been produced since the mid 90's and an eBay UK search turns up a bunch of units with the motor (the earlier Punto link posted unit does not include the motor) and reasonable postage. My question now is are early EPS the same as modern EPS in form and function?
I am at the point I think to learn more I need an EPAS column just to tear down and fully understand how it functions and how parts could be grafted onto the Pantera column.
Julian
Here's some interesting info on the Opel Corsa EPAS units:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt4...assist-steering.html
http://www.super7thheaven.co.u...power-steering-epas/
The Opel EPAS motor is no larger than the one EZ Electric uses. I believe you could only use the EPAS motor and load sensor. The control unit could be mounted remotely. You would need to fabricate a new upper portion ("input"), between the EPAS motor and the steering wheel, as well as a new "output". That's how EZ Electric makes an almost bolt-in kit. Everything in front of the EPAS motor is fabricated by them, as is the output.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt4...assist-steering.html
http://www.super7thheaven.co.u...power-steering-epas/
The Opel EPAS motor is no larger than the one EZ Electric uses. I believe you could only use the EPAS motor and load sensor. The control unit could be mounted remotely. You would need to fabricate a new upper portion ("input"), between the EPAS motor and the steering wheel, as well as a new "output". That's how EZ Electric makes an almost bolt-in kit. Everything in front of the EPAS motor is fabricated by them, as is the output.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:quote:Originally posted by David_Nunn:
For people who are determined to put together their own EPAS columns, whether it be to save a few hundred dollars or simply for the challenge and/or satisfaction; the Opel Corsa B&C units seem to be popular with the kit car crowd, including the GT40 kit crowd. These units are VERY compact, so they would be easy to adapt to the Pantera's column. Since they are so popular, there's lots of info available on wiring, adaptation and modifications (eg. speed sensitivity). You'll never find one on this side of the pond but they are readily available in the UK and Europe. In fact, there are vendors that sell used ones that have been checked-out and are guaranteed to be fully operational. These same vendors sell installation parts, control boxes, etc. Here's one such vendor:
http://www.rallywiz.com/Shop/p...ing-column-kits.html
If you want to build your own, this is an easy way to go.
With all due respect, don't bother with that unit. The assembly length is WAY to long. You will have to cut a hole through the floor and you will need to change the rack.
It's motor orientation is exactly the opposite of what you can use in a Pantera.
Essentially that is for a right hand drive car and a much larger front cabin.
Hi PanteraDoug.
Do you know what year of Fiat Punto?
Kjeld Pedersen
Denmark.
If you are in Europe you want the Fiat Punto. If you are in the US you want the Ford Fiesta unit. They are almost the same and you will not find a more compact unit.
The REASON I dropped the pursuit of the Fiat part was that the Fiesta unit is for all intents and purposes the same part.
The Honda EPS rack is the only thing that even comes close to fitting. It certainly won't if you have a dropped battery box. The motor is going to need to occupy that space.
It could be put in a lathe to cut the Pantera bracket mounting surfaces BUT the hub connection into the cabin is not going to work. That part of the assembly is WAY to long and will block the pedals.
Caution should prevail on "kits" that originate as universal. The Dutch kit comes the closest to a Pantera specific kit.
Anything where you need to fabricate, is not as specific as the seller says it is.
You actually have to have a Pantera on the premises to specifically fit it to the car.
The top of the "kit" effects everything that you see sitting in the seat.
Fitting the ignition key mechanism and the steering wheel from the Pantera and maintaining an original look is not impossible but can be a challenge.
The best way to do that is with keeping the original column and getting another to work with.
That side of the EPS unit you are working with is also very important. The GM Vue (and spin off vehicles) does not work there either.
The original Pantera steering column was sourced from a Mercury Capri. Even that needed to be shortened to fit the Pantera.
So far there is no 100% comprehensive "bolt in kit".
The question is, can I get a better fit myself? Maybe? Bottom line, if all you can do is just turn a screwdriver or a wrench, stay away from this modification.
This likely is a bigger project then anyone expects for all but a few.
quote:So far there is no 100% comprehensive "bolt in kit".
Except there are 2 bolt in kits. I have one. I am currently modifying the mounting bracket so it is an easier installation.
The Netherlands kit is also a bolt on kit available today...
Thanks for the quick reply.
this Punto year/type is easy to find here in Denmark.
I know a junkyard, i think less than 100Usd for one unit.
Kjeld.
this Punto year/type is easy to find here in Denmark.
I know a junkyard, i think less than 100Usd for one unit.
Kjeld.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:quote:Originally posted by Kjeld Pedersen:
Hi PanteraDoug.
Do you know what year of Fiat Punto?
Kjeld Pedersen
Denmark.
2006 to 2009 is what appears to be the application? They changed the name to a Grand Punto at some point.
I don't have a lot of information on that one and have NOT had that part here to try it.
That is not sold here in the US and the ones I am seeing are right hand drive, which indicates the UK market.
I am going by the pictures that I see posted for sale on Ebay.
You are really on your own on that one I am afraid?
quote:Originally posted by Kjeld Pedersen:
Thanks for the quick reply.
this Punto year/type is easy to find here in Denmark.
I know a junkyard, i think less than 100Usd for one unit.
Kjeld.quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:quote:Originally posted by Kjeld Pedersen:
Hi PanteraDoug.
Do you know what year of Fiat Punto?
Kjeld Pedersen
Denmark.
2006 to 2009 is what appears to be the application? They changed the name to a Grand Punto at some point.
I don't have a lot of information on that one and have NOT had that part here to try it.
That is not sold here in the US and the ones I am seeing are right hand drive, which indicates the UK market.
I am going by the pictures that I see posted for sale on Ebay.
You are really on your own on that one I am afraid?
In order to do a nice job, make it look original and hide the modification, you really need to find a spare Pantera OR 1970 Mercury Capri steering column.
Don't cut up your steering column. Save it so you put the car back if necessary.
Originally the kit from the Netherlands needed your column for the parts.
Now they don't. They must have found a source of them somewhere? There are none here. They are obsolete from Ford now.
I would recommend that you get the Capri part.
When you take your Pantera column apart, you will see the value of having the Capri column.
If you find the source of them in Europe, post it here. It will help out more than just one Pantera owner for sure.
On that Fiat EPS, try and get it with at least a pig tail of the wiring harness. It will save you time finding the plugs themselves.
You also want the u-joints and D shaft if you can get them.
Also be aware that almost all of the steel sheetmetal it will come with is going to get thrown away.
quote:PanteraDoug wrote:
Originally the kit from the Netherlands needed your column for the parts.
EZ Electric has never needed steering columns from customers, for parts. We decided to send them my steering column because I have a GT5-S ignition switch, trim bezel and a VSS from an Si that I wanted to use. They just wanted to make sure it would all work with their column. They sent my column back to me with their EPAS column. Mine was also the second Pantera column they had built; the first being the prototype. That was in 2012! That's mine in their promo photos. Everything in their Pantera EPAS column is new. Other than the EPAS motor itself, the load sensor and the circuit board, it is all custom made/machined for the Pantera column. I'm sure the unit SACC sells is the same.