Need help understanding De Tomaso engine numbering

Any 351C blocks cast in Australia have a “GF” for Geelong Foundry , Australia. They are a really good block.

The numbers stamped into your engine block below the left side cylinder head are not DeTomaso numbers. They might be Ford numbers if Ford Australia did something like that. But Ford USA did not stamp engine blocks in that area with any number.

your car does not have the original block, it now has a later engine with details unknown??

Larry

@If-tp2511- Thanks Larry. I thought the number on the block under the left head was a number that should match the engine number tag on the left rear fender well in the engine compartment. Am I wrong on that?

Yes, those numbers matched when it left the factory. That was 50 years ago. You have a newer block.

Larry

First off, you need to differentiate between the term "GF stamped" and "GF cast".

The GF from the Australian foundry is part of the casting of the block. Not stamped in.

The Pantera "assembly plant" in Italy is the one that stamped in, "theoretically" matching numbers to the engine "id plate" attached to the Pantera. I can't call it the "Detomaso" factory because Ford had actually bought out Detomaso, owned Vignale and everyone worked for Ford.

There has been some circumstantial evidence that they don't always originally match, although it is thought that they are supposed to originally as assembled in Italy.

It was done in order to identify the original, as supplied by Ford, engine assembly for US WARRANTY PURPOSES. Not to make us crazier then we already are? Well alright, not to make ME crazier but I don't think that's possible? I'm already pretty maxed out?

US built cars of that era would have had the vehicles chassis number stamped into the block for the same purpose.

Now, the block. There is NO difference in the casting of the US Cleveland blocks and the Australian Geelong blocks for regular production.  The confusion is caused by some of the US Automotive journalists initially refering to what was actually a special race casting for use here in the US as "the Australian Block". It is an inaccurate statement and just because the block may have been cast at Geelong in Australia, doesn't automatically make it a NASCAR SK block.

That block does have the GF casting ID but is ONLY identified as an SK part number (engineering number cast in in place of the D2AE-CA 4 bolt production block).  That and the thicker main webs in the block and a solid casting of the oil pan rails, which acted as a main girdle would, identify the SK/NASCAR/AUSTRALIAN BLOCK.

To add additional confusion, the SK castings made for racing, that did not pass inspection (largely due to core shift meaning the bore cylinders which are inserted into the block castings separately were inserted off center) were not thrown away in Australia but put into use as blocks for regular 2 bolt production engines, mostly in trucks, have turned up in Australian salvage yards (we used to call them junk yards here) just to compound the confusion further.

The SK/NASCAR RACING BLOCKS were only available in the US through the Ford Service Parts program. Each came with a certificate of authenticty, the invoice to the original purchasing dealer AND an x-ray report showing the cylinder thicknesses at multiple locations.

The blocks themselves are right around 25 pounds heavier the the production D2AE-CA 4 bolt blocks as virtually everything in them is thicker.

To fully document the correct SK racing block you actually NEED the original US Ford Service Parts document that came with the block when sold across the counter new. You in fact MAY have one now BUT all that could be said accurately about it without that document is that it MIGHT be a racing block.

@panteradoug thank you for your response and all the information you provided. Interesting history. Thank you for the correction on stamped vs cast. I was incorrectly using those terms interchangeably. The “GF” on my block looks to be cast, not stamped. Is there a way to establish whether I have an engine that was produced and installed in a Pantera originally or not? I feel like Pantera people don’t freak out about not having a numbers matching car. But, I would like to discover as much information I can on the engine that is in my car.

Would the number stamped into the block below the left head above the bell housing mean anything at all? I have heard there are some numbers on the front of the engine near the starter but I have not ventured that far yet. Hoping to do that on Monday.

Thank you all for your comments and help! Much appreciated!

As Doug stated, the number "stamped" into the block below the left head is supposed to match the engine tag on the left inner fender.  The fact yours does not implies your motor was changed at some point in the life of the car.  The block has a casting part number on the oil pan rail next to the starter.   That isnt a serial number.  See example stamping of block serial number

is your chassis s/n 7287?

@panterapatt

no, the chassis number is 02322.

I found 2 Pantera’s that sold with numbers near mine. 1980’s era.

1982 engine #7238

1985 engine #7379

1986 engine #7427

Maybe my engine was pulled from a 1983 or 84 Pantera? I know I don’t have the original engine. This car was a resto-mod and at one point had a 600 hp Chevy small block. Not sure why someone would do that. But the guy I bought it from had passed away. His son was selling it out of the estate, and around that time a rebuilt 351 was installed. I’ve reached out to some of the family members to find out if they know where the engine came from.

I don't know if you have access to the ProvaMO registry but there are a butt load of 7000-series motor numbers.  You can search on motor number. Some are GTS, some GT5s, some regular Panteras.  Many have pictures.

I think that on a US market car, you are not going to have a GF block. We are told that at some point after that, for cars built in the late '70s or '80s, the supply of US 4v Clevelands was exhausted.

Those cars are built in such small numbers that there really isn't a definitive answer but it was suggested that Detomaso obtained the engines from Ford of Australia. That would open the door to a GF cast block as well as all other components. So a GF block could have some value on a late car?

A matching engine number on a US market car doesn't guaranty that it is original to the car. A current owner can fake that to make it look original.

@panterapatt

thanks for that resource. I applied for an account at ProvaMo. I’ll check out numbers there.

Just a heads up. Applying for membership can turn into a frustrating, months long adventure in waiting for a response.

It is owned and operated by a single person and he has been fighting a multi month backlog for well over a year now

YMMV

Larry

Thanks Larry!

I found the numbers between the starter and oil pan.

D2AECA  14d2

so maybe not an Australian block after all. Maybe just a regular 1972 Cleveland?

The “GF” was on the back of the block above the bell housing…that’s why I thought it was Australian.

FWIW, There's some discussion about Australian blocks in this article.

https://www.diyford.com/ford-3...dentification-guide/

@DFort posted:

I found the numbers between the starter and oil pan.

D2AECA  14d2

so maybe not an Australian block after all. Maybe just a regular 1972 Cleveland?

The “GF” was on the back of the block above the bell housing…that’s why I thought it was Australian.

Don, it is an Australian block, the GF is clearly visible on the back of the block.

The "14d2" date code is being misinterpreted. D means April, not 1970. The casting date is 14 April, 1982.

You see, Ford of Australia didn't begin casting blocks at the Geelong Foundry until mid-1975. Before that engines assembled in Australia employed blocks cast in Cleveland, Ohio, USA. Those blocks had a big C swallowing a little F on the back of the block for the Cleveland Foundry.

The engine should be equipped with a "Bosch" distributor.  Bosch distributors have smaller shafts, Motorcraft distributors won't fit unless the distributor shaft guide hole is enlarged. And it won't have a brass bypass orifice plate below the thermostat either ... with Australian blocks the orifice is cast into the block. That's the two ways Australian blocks differ from US blocks.

By the way, all Cleveland blocks, on both continents, cast since about July 1971 (model year 1972), were D2AE-CA castings.

-G