Girling brakes.

Yes, high-tech, and consider the price. One heck of a bargan. It is still an awsome, timeless piece of art and technology created in a time when talent, abilaty and desire were the requirements not gigabites and digital data interpretation.

For me it has been a privledge to have been affiliated with one. I hope my time isn't up yet.

I like the old high tech feel of the car. The gauges at night remind me of a WWII cockpit. Even if I were to somehow upgrade the car, I would try to make it look period correct. But then that is probably mega expensive way to do things.

Detom,

Those Girlings worked fine for me this weekend. I put a set of PORTERFIELD brake pads on 9138 and she stopped for me during 5 20 minute sessions of hard driving at POCONO ... at times coming down from high speeds. I didnt get any fade. They do were out fast but the GIRLINGS are a great set of brakes for a stock application.

Ron

quote:

Originally posted by accobra:
Detom,

Those Girlings worked fine for me this weekend. I put a set of PORTERFIELD brake pads on 9138 and she stopped for me during 5 20 minute sessions of hard driving at POCONO ... at times coming down from high speeds. I didnt get any fade. They do were out fast but the GIRLINGS are a great set of brakes for a stock application.

Ron

Yeah they are massive and all cast Iron. Heat just gets soaked up and don't bother them at all. Only problem is they are so big, I can't get my Hall Ultras to fit without the spacer or they will rub the calipers. So the only way I can run my prettyt wheels is if I put the spacers back in the shocks and that makes my car sit up too high. Sometimes life is frustrating.

DT, that doesn't sound right.

If you are talking about Hall Utra Wheels and they are bigger then 15" then they have more room for the brakes.

The shock spacer doesn't change the relationship of thewheel to the brake housing. That stays constant.

It isn't the brake housing you are rubbing on. It can't possibly be that.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
DT, that doesn't sound right.

If you are talking about Hall Utra Wheels and they are bigger then 15" then they have more room for the brakes.

The shock spacer doesn't change the relationship of thewheel to the brake housing. That stays constant.

It isn't the brake housing you are rubbing on. It can't possibly be that.

Oh Doug there are spacers bolted onto the back of the wheel that give them the clearance for the Girling calipers. If you remove those the wheel contacts the edge of the calipers right where the bolts that hold the wheels together come through. The other spacers are to put on the bottom of the springs on the Konis. If you don't put them in the tires rub on the fiberglass fender flares when you hit a bump in the road. So you either have to have the car jacked up, or you have to run the stock wheels. I decided to just buy new tires and keep the stock wheels. I know the tires on there are only 34 years old, but they don't look so good. High perfomance tires do wear out faster I guess.

Some numbers to share with the group.

The Reno Tahoe group were at the Fernely-Reno Race track this past weekend. Julian (aka Joules5), Larry Stock and I were at the track. 4.2 miles and 23 turns, with elevation change. Each group ran 15-20 mins.

Julian's green car was seeing brake fade after 3-4 laps. Rotor temp around 400 front and rear. This is with a stock setup.

I have aftermarket calipers but a stock solid rotor on the rear. I was seeing temp of 325 on the rear rotor and 280 on the caliper. To contrast, my front brakes which is PPC cross drilled vented rotor was a high of 180. I did not feel any fade on the rear but it was getting close. Changes to brake bias did not affect the numbers.

So the iron will hold the heat, and getting ride of it is a trick.

Those numbers on heat reduction by going with a vented rotor cross drilled rotor are very impressive...

I don't recall who, but someone on the forums just replaced stock rotors with finned and cross drilled SSBC rotors made for a 69 Mustang and they were bolt on with new bearing races and fit the Pantera and they were only $80 a piece....that's one heck of a benefit for very little money.

I think the missing part of this equation is what tires are you using and how much do you hammer your brakes. If you're on the brakes all the time you will have heat issues with the stock bits. I use stock calipers and rotors with Porterfield pads, Dot 4 fluid and braided lines and it works. The biggest improvement came this season with the new BRG R-1s. I'd love to have the lighter brakes but I think there is some lower hanging fruit here. The stock stuff works pretty well when it's in set up. Most guys seem to underestimate the role of tires in braking. I bought a set of the Mustang rotors a few years ago and there were some clearance issues with the caliper fitting. The rotor went on alright though. I don't remember exactly what the issue was but I remember there it was going to need some minor modification and we were out of time. I still have the rotors in a box.

Mike Thomas just wrote an article doing the rotor swap for (I believe the most recent) POCA magazine and here's the parts list...he says they fit great? Maybe you used a different part? Sorry the ones on SSBC site that Mike used are slotted and vented...not drilled.
Below is the link:
http://www.ssbrakes.com/products/detail/3914/?make=Ford...ar=(1967%20-%201967)

http://www.ssbrakes.com

SSBC Rotors: (1) S2300L (Left) and (1) S2300R (Right) $85.00 per rotor
SSBC Dust Caps: (2) to fit the S2300
Bearings: (2) NAPA BR2
(2) NAPA BR6
Seals: (2) NAPA 17387
Grease: for disc brakes (higher temp resistance)
Bearing packing tool
New cotter pins (2)


If any one wants the entire article I can post it or email it...it's a two page Word document.

Don't forget that the studs on the Pantera hubs are metric and the Ford ones are UNF so you will need new wheel nuts (lug nuts?).

FYI

Slotting rotors accomplishes the same thing as cross drilling, without weakening the rotor. Cross drilling a rotor weakens it. It has long been out of use in racing. You still see rotors cross drilled on high end street automobiles, strictly for curb appeal, looks, not functionality.

A small boundary layer of gas builds up between the pad & the rotor during breaking, the slots or cross drilled holes give the gas some way to escape.

cowboy from hell

OK, I know that got better brakes now a days, but they didn't have Carbon Fiber Graphite unobtanium back in 72. I was just enamoured by how good they were for back then. Sort of like how you would marvel at a Tucker or a contistoga wagon. Sure a Pantera can't keep up with an Audi R10, but it was pretty whippy for back in the day.

Detom,

Let me just say my mostly stock 79 Pantera did real well up again some of the HOT cars at POCONO. So I agree ... don't under estimate the technology of yester-year there were budgets and Fine Engineers back then too. Remember this was a factory touring car not a factory race car.

Ron

I seem to remember that one of the knocks of Panteras in the car mags in the 70s was that the brakes were not very good. Too bad Porterfields weren't available back then. It sure made a big difference in 6559 for every day driving.

To realize the max performance of your brake system, make sure the "proportioning valve" has been removed from your car.

Its the damn proportioning valve that kept the brakes from performing their best, and influenced the opinions of the magazine writers.

If you still have the proportioning valve, follow the tubing...you'll discover its plumbed to reduce power in the FRONT brake circuit! Not the rear.

Normally front brakes get full hydraulic pressure and are modulated by the driver's foot. The rear brake circuit will have a proportioning valve to prevent the rear brakes from locking up. It should be obvious if the rear brakes are not locking up without a proprtioning valve, then the Pantera brake system really doesn't need a proportioning valve at all. This is one of the oldest fixes for the Pantera.

cowboy from hell

What do one of them porpose valves look like George?? I want to go rip it off the car and need to know what it looks like to make sure I am tearing off the right thingamabob.
And Ron, I agree ten thousand percent. Pantera was not a race car from thefactory. Sure you could turn it into a race car, but you can do that with almost any kinda car. 55 chebies, old volkswagens. They can turn about anything into a race car.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

you could turn it into a race car, but you can do that with almost any kinda car. 55 chebies, old volkswagens. They can turn about anything into a race car.

Sure. Look what they did to Herbie. Cute little guy. No Webers or nothin'.

I'd like to know if anyone has quantified the difference of disabling the proportioning valve or leaving it as designed. I still have mine functioning and have considered pulling out the guts a few times and I never have. I understand how it was originally set up but I've also read from guys on the Pantera list that although the brakes feel better initially, there was no difference in actual stopping distance. Should we call Mythbusters and see if they'll do a show on this topic?
And why wouldn't a Pantera be a race car? How about the cars it competed with back in the day like a big block or LT 1 Vette? Were they taxicabs? I know some guy delivered Pizzas with a Pantera in Michigan.

quote:

Originally posted by korina:
I know some guy delivered Pizzas with a Pantera in Michigan.

Are you sure you aren't confusing him with me?

I can't leave the car outside in my driveway at all.
If I do the birds all come and dump all over it.

After they finish their dirty work the car looks like a big pizza, with various extra toppings, being tomato sauce red and all.

They aren't bad birds. They just want to see what kind of car it is. I think they don't believe that it isn't a Lamborghini.

quote:

And why wouldn't a Pantera be a race car? How about the cars it competed with back in the day like a big block or LT 1 Vette?

Corvettes ain't race cars. No race car comes with airconditioning, radio and am/fm cassette player. GT40 was a race car, although they did build three street car versions later. General rule, in a race car, if it don't make you go faster, it gets left off. In a regular car you need things to make you comfy. In a race car you need things to make you uncomfy. That is so you try and finsish the race faster so you can get out of the uncomfy car.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

quote:

And why wouldn't a Pantera be a race car? How about the cars it competed with back in the day like a big block or LT 1 Vette?

Corvettes ain't race cars. No race car comes with airconditioning, radio and am/fm cassette player. GT40 was a race car, although they did build three street car versions later. General rule, in a race car, if it don't make you go faster, it gets left off. In a regular car you need things to make you comfy. In a race car you need things to make you uncomfy. That is so you try and finsish the race faster so you can get out of the uncomfy car.

Here are two race Panteras. Watch the videos and then tell me you want to drive this car to the hardware store?????http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUjehWztZTE&mode=related&search=

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

quote:

And why wouldn't a Pantera be a race car? How about the cars it competed with back in the day like a big block or LT 1 Vette?

Corvettes ain't race cars. No race car comes with airconditioning, radio and am/fm cassette player. GT40 was a race car, although they did build three street car versions later. General rule, in a race car, if it don't make you go faster, it gets left off. In a regular car you need things to make you comfy. In a race car you need things to make you uncomfy. That is so you try and finsish the race faster so you can get out of the uncomfy car.

Here are two race Panteras. Watch the videos and then tell me you want to drive this car to the hardware store?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUjehWztZTE&mode=related&search=

Why not? They'd be affraid not to give me a parking space.

Detom,

I know its not comfy ... but I wanna drive it to the grocery store. LOL

I drive mine to the grocery store. LOL

Just kidding I get your point.

Ron

How about this one on youtube ... its my favorite ... a real grocery getter.

Ron

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxZv6T174LA

Nice one Ron. Great little tape.

For anyone who doesn't know, that's what a Pantera with Webers and 180's sounds like up close.

Of course I tend to hear it a little differently in the cabin.

Like all the exhaust smoke? I got embarassed once when a very attractive woman was standing behind the car in white pants and I messed all over her.

Yeah I admit if I owned one I would drive it on the street occasionaly, but I am sure the more you did it, the less charming it would be.

LOL .. I think it would be cool pulling up to a nice restuarant with VALET parking and see the look on the guys face .... I did that once with 9138 and they waved me in .... the look was like park it yourself. LOL