Converting Pantera door glass to single panel

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...ntera-project?page=1

Actually, tempered glass can not be cut.

tempered glass is used for the side windows on modern cars. when broken it shatters into hundreds of small pieces which is acceptable for side windows but obviously would cause major issues if a windshield were to shatter into thousands of pieces

safety laminated glass is used for the windshield and safety laminated glass can be cut using the proper technique

finding a correctly curved tempered side window on a modern car will be of no value, as it can not be cut and resized

I understand this modification has been done on a few cars. And you are correct, it will require an expensive, custom made, to your precise template, one piece glass.

Larry

Before asking the question, I would have agreed with Larry's comment regarding the cutting of tempered glass. Usually cutting takes place before the tempering process. However, indications on the internet appear to show that tempered glass can be cut. I will investigate further and report my findings. I was glad to hear that it has been done before, but my budget does have limits.

Thank you,

Tom

Talk to one of the hot rod shops that build cars. They have sources for making custom windows.  It isn't cheap.  

These guys can do it: https://www.amhotrodglass.com/

Did you read KimK's thread? He already has a mold and a glass supplier. I'd start there. 

David,

after viewing AMHRG‘s website, which honestly conveys very little information about what they do, I can find no indication they are cutting tempered glass or any glass for that matter.

several videos of them cutting something that is clear, but no mention it is actual glass or acrylic  

custom …acrylic… “glass” appears to be what they are offering.

do you have any clarification?

Larry

Larry,

I agree; the web site is terrible. I've seen this company on Bitchin' Rides a few times, being credited with the glass for various projects. If I'm not mistaken, they also made the headlamp covers for the Ring Brother's Pantera (although those were probably acrylic).

I just had to see what my Pantera looks like without the small triangular windows. It's easy enough to remove, so I went for it and love the nice clean look. There is a web that sits under the small window which would have to be cut out for a single glass panel. Since the car never sees water, I might just leave it removed for a while and wait for comments and my own analysis of the situation before doing anything drastic.

That would be a cool mod, I would also doubt that there is room in the door...Have you cut one from paper to see it could fit? At least, the door chamber is so much smaller than the window opening, attached is a Goose frame--but getting room for such a big piece of glass (and getting it to roll all the way down), would be a cool mod (but I bigger challenge!)--Lee

I did open up the door to remove the glass for my experiment. It’s tight but the larger panel of glass can slip down between the door skin and window motor. A new glide is needed to handle the front edge of the glass. The existing front glide is held in place by two screws. I’m debating if to use plexiglass. Glass will be pricy to fabricate. If done carefully it’s possible return everything back to stock. For the time being I’m going without glass and adding in new temporary rubber glass guides to fill in the gaps created by missing glass.
it looks great without hurting the car.

The Pantera looks awesome without the small glass section, cleans up the lines and does not interrupt the flow of the door.  Makes the door look longer and sleeker.  I would like to do it to my car.  I would want to leave a small amount in the corner for the mirrors that attached to the existing window.  Could be replaced with metal.  If we can get a group of Pantera owners that would like to do this mod, we could get a discount on a glass mold.  Let me know if you are interested and I can see what I can find out.  Without the small triangular glass installed, it just looks better.  I am in if we can get others.  Can PM me.

I understand that this has been done before. If anybody knows someone that has done it well, we should contact them. If there is nobody we can talk to, some experimentation is required. The main problem I see is the front bottom corner of the glass as the window travels forward as it will/may make contact with the door. Please see my diagram.

@tomkuester - Great illustration of how the window travels.  That is why if you left a small triangular corner for mirrors like the Omni mirrors that Hall  Pantera use to sell, you might not have that problem.  Let's keep this going to see if we have others who would like to do it.  My Pantera interior is completely out, so we could experiment with my car if needed.

Did you ever reach out to Kim K.?

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...498#1598208419958498

yes, this modification was successfully done by an owner in Finland back in 2017. His forum handle is kimk and here is a link to the thread of his restoration. The link should open on page 5 of the thread.

https://pantera.infopop.cc/topic/new-pantera-project

UPDATE: I see the above link takes you to page 1 instead of page 5. 🤷‍♂️☹️

As can be seen the glass could not fill the entire opening.

Some sheet metal below the OEM vent window needs to be removed to allow an opening for the glass and provide a proper metal profile for the door whiskers to attach to. This photo shows the metal removed in all but the forward section.

The new forward vertical window channel is sourced from the OEM forward vertical window channel.

Not shown in his thread, but a new forward in-the-door metal U channel will need to be installed for the extended glass to ride in.

The top U channel felt channels and the felt door whiskers are issues, but not serious problems.

IIRC, the upper door frame channel for the quarter window gasket is just a continuation of the upper door frame channel for the roll-up window; longer felt channel is readily available.

As shown in one of the photos above, there will be some challenging metal removal in the lower quarter window area.  Some precision removal (Dremel with cut-off wheels?) of excess metal will leave metal that matches the original door metal profile.  Longer felt whiskers are readily available.

His description of the process is far from detailed, but of note was his need to correct U channel contour due to incorrect glass curvature.  

at this point in time a PM to Kim is the logical first step for those interested in this modification, as the biggest stumbling block to the project is the custom glass. At the time of his project Kim said the cost for the two custom glass pieces would be €740 plus shipping costs.

there may be different approaches than Kim’s that would prove satisfactory, but this is clearly a major project with major roadblocks to solve.

so, who is going to send that PM to Kim?

Larry

The glass does not travel forward as much is I implied in my diagram and should clear the window mechanism and motor.  With both pieces of glass out of the car it will not be hard to make a cardboard template to test the theory. It will come down to millimeters for clearance near the front, but I think the front glass corner can be shaved a tiny bit so it won't hit the door front.  The triangular sidelight sits on a narrow shelf which needs to be cut out for a full glass panel to pass through. To return back to stock, that shelf would need to be replaced.

A cheap way out is to leave the existing big window in place and make the triangular window easier to remove. If needed, you can then plug in the small window on the fly.

I hope other will chime in with ideas and concerns.

Tom

 

I found a three year old post by Tom where there was an exchange between him and Kim. Here is the link:

https://pantera.infopop.cc/topic/window-glas

Tom, curious why you did not follow through on this project back then?

Larry

Yes, I started once before to look into single glass side panels, but because of Covid and economic reasons we closed our office down and had our hands full.

Now I'm retied and have more time for this kind of stuff.

I hope it goes forward as I've removed the side glass and love the look.

So far I see no reason why it can't be reversible, but I'm just getting started.

Tom

It would also be possible (and possibly much easier) to make the triangular stock glass functional. In the '50s and '60s they were called 'wind-wings'- and were for effective cabin ventilation since A/C was not common in those days although available.

Using far cheaper plastic for custom full length side windows as prototypes would be my suggestion.They could easily be made and tinted, too. They would eventually be scratched by the usual 'whiskers' used in side windows, but should last a year or two- long enough to see if its worth it to you for the high cost of custom glass side windows.

For both jobs, I would enlist a really good hotrod car builder. This is not quite the typical home-shop project.

I did love those operable wind wings as you call them, but I'm going for appearance and like that clean look without glass. Cost may dictate the final solution. For now, while I'm experimenting, I removed the glass and added rubber glass guides to hide the gaps. Plexiglas may be the solution, time will tell what wins out. I'm not concerned about scratches, it will take years for them to show.

Tom

1)- If you're going for plastic, plexiglas is easy for the home modifier. Add a piece of contoured wood to the window as a mock-up to fill in the missing front piece on stock glass. Cut a piece of plexi a little bigger than what you need and put the stock glass & wood filler in an oven  with the plexi on top. At 150 degrees F, the plexi will sag around the stock glass in about 10 minutes. With oven mitts, take the stock glass out with the plexi on top and let it cool- another 5 minutes. Then trim. 150F won't hurt stock glass and it reproduces the stock compound curve perfectly.

2)- use UV-stabilized plexi or your new plastic window will sun-craze in a month or so of driving during daylight hours.

3)- tinting plexi can be done with green 'RIT' dye just like they do sun glasses. Dissolve the powder in hot water and lower the upper edge of the plexi in a tray full for about 1 minute then rinse to produce a tint band. Amount of tint can be increased by repeated dunks & rinses.

4)- polycarbonate is far stronger than plexi but needs around 300F to form it.. Lower heat causes air/moisture bubbles to form which ruins it as a window. Some high priced polycarbonate is silicon-coated (used for fighter plane canopies) but eventually it scratches, too. ALL plastic is softer than glass.

Wow, that's a very good piece of advice.

Working in plexiglass will darn sure be easier than glass and less costly if you make a mistake. I will call on my friend that owns a pizza restaurant, he has ovens large enough to place the glass inside.  Scratches are not really a problem for me, the windows are almost always down, and I've only washed the car once since I bought it 42 years ago.

It pays to be on this forum.

Thank you so much,

Tom

Yummy!

🍕🍕🍕 with subtle undertones of oregano, basil, thyme, rosemary and melted plastic.

reminds me of the owner, who will go unnamed, who baked his first powder coated wheel in the kitchen oven while the wife was away. Let’s just say there were unintended results.

😁

Larry

...instructions from a Ferrari newsletter on replicating the wrinkle finish on the valve covers included how to burn toast to mask the smell...

I am reaching out to custom Auto glass manufactures to get pricing on glass replacement windows.  I will keep this thread informed on what I find out.  I think glass would be better.  Larry

I will admit to  heat setting the high temp paint on the brake drums in the kitchen oven and absolutely stinking the house out.

Wife was highly suspicious when she came home and every door and window was open  .....! Only a faint wisp of baked paint and grease remained....!

Have yet to attempt Plexiglass!!

As a do it yourselfer our oven has also taken a few unintended hits, the last of which resulted in a new oven. So these home projects can get costly, but the stories are always funny at a later point.

Glass would be my preference, and if anybody has a source, please count me in. I just put the large panels back in the door for safe storage.  This reminded me that the glass panels don't recess 100% into the door. Is that typical, and is there an adjustment possible?

Tom

Yes there is…. It requires “fettling” and minor grinding in a few judicious spots.

I recall seeing a few posts (or older articles in Newsletters) about it.

I’ll see if I can turn anything up.

Rocky

The article Rocky refers to was written by Bill Taylor and is hosted at www.panteraplace

http://www.panteraplace.com/page188.htm

Larry

I have noticed that by disconnecting the window from the lifting arm the window drops another +/- 1/2" before being stopped by making contact with the interior of the door skin. This is perfect, as the space is definitely available for a fix to lower the window nicely into the door. The total rotating movement needs to increase for a longer window travel. I'm going to have to analyze the geometry of it all to determine which of the fixes mentioned above will work best, or if there is another idea waiting to be discovered. Probably not.

Tom

Wonder if you can make a prototype out some relatively cheap material. Wouldn't have to be clear. Maybe fiberglass and cardboard?

yes, I plan to build a sample window out of a material that has the glass thickness and is bendable. It will have to wait until winter, good riving weather is coming soon in Virginia.

The Vader window lift system allows full glass retraction with no rework of Ted's mechanism. But it's so close I had to scrape off the undercoating in one spot inside the right door to fit. Left side was OK as shipped. It's also 6-1/2 lbs/door lighter, 3-5X faster and has been in our car for 20  years trouble free. It uses stock wiring & switches. Best bucks I ever spent.

do you have a link for Vader?

Thank you,

Tom

This may help

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...ulator-sets-for-sale

Ted passed away quite a few years ago but his son still builds and sells some of Ted's innovations including the window lifts. The web site is long gone- I'll have to look for his phone number in Oklahoma and get back to you. It's also on the PI Website archives, I think.Sorry- JD

Here: