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Yes they are.
I talk with Dave and Kevin at SEMA.
I dont think it will be a "mild custom"
They are waiting for a new frame from Roadster shop, for the Pantera before they starts.
Kjeld
How do you put a new frame under a unibody/monocot car? I am sure that it can be done by cutting into the car, but I am not sure about what would be gained by doing such a thing. Of course this is basically a reality television show, so what makes sense to us as owners might not appeal to the general viewing public.
jffr posted:How do you put a new frame under a unibody/monocot car? I am sure that it can be done by cutting into the car, but I am not sure about what would be gained by doing such a thing. Of course this is basically a reality television show, so what makes sense to us as owners might not appeal to the general viewing public.
like this
http://roadstershop.com/galleries/nre-pantera/
Wow that green is nice. I would leave that one alone & modify a beat up car instead.
That chassis is fantastic...
jfb05177 posted:jffr posted:How do you put a new frame under a unibody/monocot car? I am sure that it can be done by cutting into the car, but I am not sure about what would be gained by doing such a thing. Of course this is basically a reality television show, so what makes sense to us as owners might not appeal to the general viewing public.
like this
http://roadstershop.com/galleries/nre-pantera/
Dont know if it is like this one. or the one they make for the Ringbrothers Pantera.
Or mabye a new design?
First time we talk about there Pantera built was in Losangeles at the carshow in Marts.
That time they told me they will use a frame from Roadstershop and mabye a Ford V6 ECO boost engine, but not 100% chore about the engine.
They want to make more Space in the "cocpit" becourse the owner of the Pantera is a tall man, they say.
At SEMA they was still waiting on the frame from Roadstershop.
Kjeld
For those of you following the Kindig Pantera build, here is the Roadster Shop chassis almost ready for shipment back to Kindig’s shop...
Beautiful TIG welds, nice chassis design but what if anything is left of the 'Pantera' they supposedly started with? I see nothing at all with even a nodding acquaintence to 'DeTomaso' or Tom Tjaarda including the bolts and nuts. This is a mid-engine concept IMHO.
Anyone else notice the firewall crossmember in front of engine has no provision for water tubes?
Wondering if this is an oversight or something else is in mind?
Larry
Kjeld, for the Ring Brothers Pantera, the Roadstershop built all new suspension with C6 Corvette spindles / uprights, steering rack and relocated suspension mounting brackets. The chassis was still DeTomaso Pantera. This one is very similar to the chassis they built for NRE. They cut away most of the Pantera’s frame and floor, then the new chassis gets welded to the old body. I don’t think the NRE Pantera was ever finished so we’ll need to wait for Kindig to see how it all turns out. The wide frame rails will let them get the engine nice and low in the chassis.
bosswrench posted:Beautiful TIG welds, nice chassis design but what if anything is left of the 'Pantera' they supposedly started with? I see nothing at all with even a nodding acquaintence to 'DeTomaso' or Tom Tjaarda including the bolts and nuts. This is a mid-engine concept IMHO.
I was down to Kindig’s shop the other day and found out the body, or what’s left of it is up in Oregon being acid dipped....I can only imagine the bracing and cross bracing needed to keep the body from flapping in the breeze...
More and More it looks like it's going to be a Custom Pantera Kit Car? Custom Frame, Corvette Suspension, Corvette Engine. After Market Trans. and No Prince of Darkness! lol Beautiful work, I'm sure it's going to look Great.
Seems my Comment should be focused on the NRE Car Not the Kindig Car.
David Archibald's mighty Pantera has a custom made road race chassis and David's car is a fantastic looking beast.
cuvee posted:More and More it looks like it's going to be a Custom Pantera Kit Car? Custom Frame, Corvette Suspension, Corvette Engine. After Market Trans. and No Prince of Darkness! lol Beautiful work, I'm sure it's going to look Great.
Not sure what you mean?? The pics show the car with a Ford Coyote engine and Ricardo ( Ford GT) transaxle. More than likely, the only 'Vette parts on the car are the hub carriers/wheel bearings .
Ron
Beautiful work on the chassis!
Jack (Bosswrench), The site photos show them fitting the Tjaarda contribution (the body) to the chassis. To my knowledge, Tom did not design the chassis so I believe your criticism of the fabrication is not well founded. Although, I don't deny you your freedom to express your opinion.
Be a shame if they cut that green car up, why not just make some fiberglass body panels?
ALBANYGT40, totally agree with you. What a shame to ruin an original car. What a shame!
I think it is important to realize these builders that have been putting out Panteras do not begin to love the cars in any manner close to how we love them.
Panteras are the flavor of the month and building one now is guaranteed to bring in viewers, which of course is what the reality garage shows are all about in the first place. Views = money = success.
Should a builder venture into new territory and create something universally acclaimed out of a Gremlin or a Pinto or a Chevette, then we would see those cars on the garage reality shows.
Bottom line, all these builds give us something to talk about and generally when they are finished, we are able to appreciate our own cars even that much more compared to what they create. 😉
Larry
The exception was Chip Foose. When he tried to come up with a customizing concept for the car, he realized he really couldn’t improve on the design. His changes were subtle and focused on undoing things DeTomaso had to do, in order to lower production costs. He even retrofitted round door handles because he thought they looked far better than the later handles. Other than custom 18”/19” wheels and custom exhaust, only a Pantera owner could spot Foose’s customizations.
I agree Larry, those are sweet..!! I like how he gave a hint of the original wheel in his interpretation. Really cool.
I usually admire what they do in that shop. Studying the photos I am wondering if they have lengthened the cabin?
One thing I hope they do not do is put the trademark doorhandles on a Pantera. Totally out of character but they seem to stick them on just about every car that comes their way☹️
anyone with computer skills care to do a point to point measurement analysis of their car versus a point to point analysis on a stock car??
Larry
I wonder if they are planning some sort of forced induction ? The NA Coyote paired with the gearing in the Ricardo Ford GT transaxle will be quite a dog. The gearing is extremely high in stock form and a lower ratio R&P is in the neighborhood of $9k ( + installation) for them.
Ron
The unfinished NRE Pantera chassis was for sale for quite some time at something like $150k, they cut up a perfectly good 9000 series GT5 for that one and chucked all the old sheet metal (inner fenders etc.) in the dumpster. I find these 'hack job' shows hard to watch as they are typically just doing it for the sake of doing it, there's little gained in the end result.
It doesn't make sense to lengthen the car there. It would require widening the doors and custom glass work for the side windows. Very complicated initiatives. I doubt that they are taking that approach.
I just watched the latest episode. They built a Chevy C10 convertible with a retractable hardtop. The engineering and metalwork is amazing. When Kjeld spoke with them at SEMA, they did say they were going to find a way to make more room in the cockpit. Assuming the Roadster Shop provided a lengthened Pantera chassis, lengthening the doors and having new window glass made, looks like it would be a walk-in-the-park for them.
There are already Panteras that have deleted the front “vent” windows and have had custom one-piece glass windows fabricated for that modification.
The lengthening of the door is easily a non-issue modification for that shop.
hearing of Kjeld’s SEMA discussion, I am now quite convinced that the areas I circled in the photos are in fact evidence of the cabin being lengthened.
Larry
Kindig Pantera Project will air in Season 8 which starts late September early October....
Well, early October is near and Kindig’s season 8 is airing on the 5th or 6th, depending on which link you read…. on Motor Trend channel or various subscription services. No idea what episode the Pantera will show up in the new season. Might be able to Stream it earlier on Discovery +… just sayin…
Rich…
Is there a Detomaso do-rag?
if you're not just being funny, yes- there is a 12" x 16" shop towel with the car screened on it. If you mean a Harley type bandanna to keep hair just right, no.
You wouldn't see it on your head here since you have to wear a helmet. It's for keeping "your" bald head from getting sun burned more likely.
I don't see where you need to lengthen the cabin 3 or 4 inches. It might change the side perspective of the car. Hard to tell if that would be a positive or negative thing? That's something I would suspect of Foose.
If it is because of the Cleveland engine intrusion in the cabin, My thought is that it is the water pump primarily that causes the issue. I've never seen anyone shorten the shaft for the water pump pulley but every time I pull the engine cover, It's the first thing that occurs to me.
If you change that and cheat the engine mounts back an inch or so you could have a flat bulkhead with a Cleveland.
What would be an issue with a Pantera water pump? I realize that Ford would never have permitted it but am a little surprised that Detomaso never tried it on his own?
I've seen many of the alternative engines for the car. I don't see the haste in eliminating the Cleveland? It's as if people are trying to eliminate it's Ford heritage and make it something it never was.
You can't even say that you can't get a good replacement block since there is the Myer block available.
Doug, it would be pretty easy to eliminate the 351C water pump and convert to a remote electric water pump or pumps. That would allow for a flat firewall. That’s what Renegade Hybrid’s did with their Porsche Chev conversions. Lowering the engine in the chassis buys more room in front too.
Another way to buy more room in the cabin is to move the pedals forward. I have the SACC 2” pedal box spacer in my Pantera and it makes a HUGE difference to driver comfort. It makes installing the pedal assy. more difficult though.
I did the pedal relocation and the floor pan drop quite a while ago. The issue is needing more elbow room as a driver and giving the passenger a civilized seat location.
The lack of that is something I would have thought Ford would have made Detomaso fix.
You don't need to go to NASA extremes to fix it. Just shorten the water pump shaft and make a pulley for that.
Spacing out the pedal box was in one of Fords memo fixes when the cars were still new. Mine is spaced out 1-1/2". 2" would be too much for me.
Ford sells a 'street rod' water pump that's 2-1/4" shorter than a stock 351-C water pump. It's supposed to be for a 351-W but with a few simple changes, I found it fits a Cleveland as well. Haven't run it since it's now on my Fontana, which needs a few thousand dollars more for a crank, pistons & rods.
I also found the whole powertrain can be moved rearward in a Pantera by 1-1/2 " with little effort and no ill effect on handling. I was able to do this in 2010 by redrilling the upper motor mounts and bending a shallow 'S' into the ZF rear mount tabs. Beyond 1-1/2" back, the front sump of the oil pan hits the under-engine crossmember, causing even more issues. But that mod was more than enough to add a flat firewall access door and a 'big cap' distributor. There are POCA articles & photos on both these mods in the Archives.
JT, no one said anything about Tom Tjaarda who did the body and interior. As we all know, Gianpaulo Dallara designed the Pantera chassis following his design of the 1969 DeTomaso F-2 racer. Using the much wider & heavier Ricardo transaxle will cause problems with a stock rear subframe since that tranny has been found to not fit between stock rear rails. Widening the rails relocates the lower rear a-arm pickup points, altering Dallara's carefully balanced Pantera geometry. Raising the Ricardo makes the C/G even worse. So it appears they decided to solve these problems by building their own frame to accommodate. Any idea what famous designer did the work, or is it an experiment?
Seems strange since an existing 6-speed ZF from RBT as proposed for the 1st Ford GT would be a bolt-in and a stock shifter would work. I wonder how the "custom" car will handle; Dallara has made quite a nice living designing well handling performance car chassis over the last 50+ years, including most of the Indycars. Dallara has a shop in Indianapolis as well as the original in Italy for 'local' work on F-2 & F-3, and some of the E-race series. I think Andretti Racing uses them on its e-racers.
@bosswrench posted:Ford sells a 'street rod' water pump that's 2-1/4" shorter than a stock 351-C water pump. It's supposed to be for a 351-W but with a few simple changes, I found it fits a Cleveland as well. Haven't run it since it's now on my Fontana, which needs a few thousand dollars more for a crank, pistons & rods.
I also found the whole powertrain can be moved rearward in a Pantera by 1-1/2 " with little effort and no ill effect on handling. I was able to do this in 2010 by redrilling the upper motor mounts and bending a shallow 'S' into the ZF rear mount tabs. Beyond 1-1/2" back, the front sump of the oil pan hits the under-engine crossmember, causing even more issues. But that mod was more than enough to add a flat firewall access door and a 'big cap' distributor. There are POCA articles & photos on both these mods in the Archives.
JT, no one said anything about Tom Tjaarda who did the body and interior. As we all know, Gianpaulo Dallara designed the Pantera chassis following his design of the 1969 DeTomaso F-2 racer. Using the much wider & heavier Ricardo transaxle will cause problems with a stock rear subframe since that tranny has been found to not fit between stock rear rails. Widening the rails relocates the lower rear a-arm pickup points, altering Dallara's carefully balanced Pantera geometry. Raising the Ricardo makes the C/G even worse. So it appears they decided to solve these problems by building their own frame to accommodate. Any idea what famous designer did the work, or is it an experiment?
Seems strange since an existing 6-speed ZF from RBT as proposed for the 1st Ford GT would be a bolt-in and a stock shifter would work. I wonder how the "custom" car will handle; Dallara has made quite a nice living designing well handling performance car chassis over the last 50+ years, including most of the Indycars. Dallara has a shop in Indianapolis as well as the original in Italy for 'local' work on F-2 & F-3, and some of the E-race series. I think Andretti Racing uses them on its e-racers.
Using the Ricardo seems to be just part of the sometimes overwhelming desire to change these cars into something else.
I think some just got them too cheap. You wouldn't find someone modifying a Cobra or a Ferrari.
I once worked for a construction company that had a motto of "total control".
If by chance they could have wound up with a
Ferrari for nothing, they'd have it hauling garbage or a race horse pulling a donkey cart full of crap.
Total control.
Ford always overthought everything and missed the parts that needed attention. They wasted unknown amounts of money trying to better the ZF when it was the strongest, most reliable part of the Pantera. And the 'I-know-better' modifiers are still following that dictum. The Ricardo was overdesigned for a supercharged hi-torque cammer V-8 and had 6 speeds when it didn't need the extra gear- even for racing.
Season 8 Ep 1 is October 1. Details of the episode blank on Spectrum cable.
I've got Direct TV and there is no info also. I starts on 10/5 according to the schedule. The Pantera episode must be later in the season.
haydude,
I see you have vin 4403, I have 4404.
Tberg,
Thanks for the heads up. There is a post that Rocky started I think that is asking who has sequential or close to numbers. Rene from over on the other side of the pond has 4406. The Marty report for my car is different as far as original color and VIN date code to what is on my car. So I would like to talk about that if possible. We should move this to another post so we don't hijack this one.
Ken
I had a chance to visit his SLC shop a couple of years ago when my best friend, son, and I were out to see the speed trials on the salt flats. His brother-in-law tan tours on Fridays and I have to say we were surprised at how legitimate he is compared to most of the fake reality shows. They have so many talented craftsmen and put so much time into each car.
They were actively filming the show during our visit. A bunch of the cars we saw them working on that day we’re on his show. We also got to see the upholstery shop next door.
The Pantera was up on a lift when we went thru. It looked like a very clean original car. I love Panteras but didn’t yet own but could tell that was super nice one. It was in queue so I have no idea what they end up doing to it
I’m sure a lot of people might not like seeing a nice Pantera modified this much but Dave does amazing work and I’m excited to see the final product.
Great to see a show based on a real car business.
It looks like the Pantera episode on Bitchin' Rides is Tuesday, Dec. 14th.
Mike Mileski
Tucson, AZ
I just watched part of the episode on MotorTrend+ (their online streaming service).
Looks like the build is for Ernie Boch Jr out of Massachusetts. His father started a huge group of car dealers and if you live in Ma, there's no way you don't know who he is. He's 6' 2" so they stretch it so he can fit better inside the car. I'm 6' 2" and fit fine in mine but get that it can be tight in a Pantera.
Looks like a really cool build. I imagine it will be on live TV in the next week or two.
They cut up a super clean 72 Pre-L car but it looks like they make a really cool car out of it
'Chasing Classic Cars' re-ran an episode on restoring a '69 Mangusta last night. No Pantera build on TV so far....
The Pantera episode begins Tuesday, December 14th on Spectrum Cable in SoCal if that is your provider.
Channel 74 Motor Trend TV
I just watched the episode on MT+. If nothing else it is fascinating to see how they cut it and put it back together. I’m more a fan of the original shape than the some of the wild custom stuff. This is definitely more towards the latter with some amount of reserve. It will be 2 episodes. Love the coyote engine! Glad they did not LS it.
I watched the 1st of what I assume is a 2 episode build.
43 minutes of cringes.
There isn't much of the original car left. What they end up with is going to look a lot like an Ares Panther.
Seems like they could have almost as easily kept the green car in the shop to measure and fabbed up the sheet metal as needed to replicate it or, as someone mentioned above, just used fiberglass.
I watched the two parts of this last night. They do some great work there, but what they built is more of a car INSPIRED by the Pantera, or what Dave thinks a modern Pantera would look like. There's maybe 5% of the original car left. Shame they cut up such a nice original car. They could have just used a junker; but the owner says he has three, so maybe it doesn't matter to him. He's apparently some billionaire car dealer.
They didn't show the final version of the car at the end of the episode, but when it's done, I'll be curious how it compares to the Ares "Pantera" and the Ring Bros car. Personally, I think Dave always goes too big with his wheels, and I think he does it again here. I will say the exhaust they built is really cool. I'm very excited to see what they do with the interior too.
I would also love to see the final invoice! I assume this cost the guy close to $1M if not more, hearing how much they charge for cars at that shop now.
Just watched the two episodes tonight........... I am in shock that the idiots (hey! they knowingly mocked us for the hate mail to come!!!) carved up such a BEAUTIFUL rust free body, to use so little! THEN, once they started cutting into the fenders, and THEN THE HOOD, only to refashion a new hood (VERY TALENTED GROUP I MUST SAY!) from new steel........what a waste!!!!
They rebuilt the door skins, the roof, the front fenders with all new steel, so why not just do the rear fenders to boot and piss off all the cutting and fitting?
I truly wonder if the front fenders will allow any serious movement of the front wheels other than rotating for turning......do they really clear during full compression, or is that only 1" of movement? Oh, wait, what am I thinking? These cars are not made for driving! Only for TV!!! Then sitting in a collection......!
I can't think of anything that would shock me more than seeing my rust free, low production sports car hacked to bits to do what was done here! (yes I understand many were hacked up for race focussed cars back when......) For all the wasted time it took them, they could have splashed the entire body for molds to make 'glass or carbon fiber components for fenders, doors, and hoods fr & rr.........!!!!! Not cut up what looked to be a good honest $100K car!!!! AT least then they'd have made molds that could support building more customs....since the Roaster Shop seems to have a formula for welding these chassis up! I expect to see more....
I'm just thinking of all the guys with some chassis rust that could be using the discards to repair their cars!!!! Probably all went into the dumpster......
For as much as Kindig pined about how much he loved these cars, I truly cannot believe he cut such a perfect body up!!!! Yes I know it was not his car......but since this was a "no pressure build" as evidenced by posts dating back two years of the conceptual ideas being tossed about........he could have sourced another body that wasn't so freaking perfect, AND slime green!!! Then he wouldn't have had to worry about throwing so many good pieces in the dumpster! Like total interior, door glass, AC parts, wiring, all the suspension, steering, ZF & 351C............
What I did NOT see in these episodes, was how the engine/trans combo is supposed to be serviced???? It appeared that the firewall was now without access hole.....? None of the crossmembers appeared to be removable......and OH yah.......is there a heatshield for the exhaust to prevent that "piece of art" exhaust system from boiling the paint off of the decklid???
Hate the seats..... dash looks like poo....no attempt to put any of the originality back in the car.....no shifter guide plate......
I feel like the one dude in the shop that hated the car. Period. Wife took one look at him and was wondering what planet he dropped in from...... hey, what can I say, she married me!!! I can't talk! 
I guess the original car wasn't all that perfect.....the front grill emblem was installed upside down.......
Ciao!
Steve
@mangusta posted:Just watched the two episodes tonight........... I am in shock that the idiots (hey! they knowingly mocked us for the hate mail to come!!!) carved up such a BEAUTIFUL rust free body, to use so little! THEN, once they started cutting into the fenders, and THEN THE HOOD, only to refashion a new hood (VERY TALENTED GROUP I MUST SAY!) from new steel........what a waste!!!!
They rebuilt the door skins, the roof, the front fenders with all new steel, so why not just do the rear fenders to boot and piss off all the cutting and fitting?
I truly wonder if the front fenders will allow any serious movement of the front wheels other than rotating for turning......do they really clear during full compression, or is that only 1" of movement? Oh, wait, what am I thinking? These cars are not made for driving! Only for TV!!! Then sitting in a collection......!
I can't think of anything that would shock me more than seeing my rust free, low production sports car hacked to bits to do what was done here! (yes I understand many were hacked up for race focussed cars back when......) For all the wasted time it took them, they could have splashed the entire body for molds to make 'glass or carbon fiber components for fenders, doors, and hoods fr & rr.........!!!!! Not cut up what looked to be a good honest $100K car!!!! AT least then they'd have made molds that could support building more customs....since the Roaster Shop seems to have a formula for welding these chassis up! I expect to see more....
I'm just thinking of all the guys with some chassis rust that could be using the discards to repair their cars!!!! Probably all went into the dumpster......
For as much as Kindig pined about how much he loved these cars, I truly cannot believe he cut such a perfect body up!!!! Yes I know it was not his car......but since this was a "no pressure build" as evidenced by posts dating back two years of the conceptual ideas being tossed about........he could have sourced another body that wasn't so freaking perfect, AND slime green!!! Then he wouldn't have had to worry about throwing so many good pieces in the dumpster! Like total interior, door glass, AC parts, wiring, all the suspension, steering, ZF & 351C............
What I did NOT see in these episodes, was how the engine/trans combo is supposed to be serviced???? It appeared that the firewall was now without access hole.....? None of the crossmembers appeared to be removable......and OH yah.......is there a heatshield for the exhaust to prevent that "piece of art" exhaust system from boiling the paint off of the decklid???
Hate the seats..... dash looks like poo....no attempt to put any of the originality back in the car.....no shifter guide plate......
I feel like the one dude in the shop that hated the car. Period. Wife took one look at him and was wondering what planet he dropped in from...... hey, what can I say, she married me!!! I can't talk!
I guess the original car wasn't all that perfect.....the front grill emblem was installed upside down.......
Ciao!
Steve
I'm from Zluto. They just dropped me off here and abandoned me. Unfortunately I didn't get the same benefits as Superman.
Everyone can tell I'm an Alien.
OK, I actually rethought this whole thing, and came to these conclusions...... Kindig was an idiot for not seeing this disaster in the making before trashing a perfectly good car....that he supposedly likes......
The bigger idiot was the owner, who threw away $99K worth of car to use $1K worth of tin, which could have been had from any number of existing basket cases elsewhere on this continent. NONE of the major/minor panels were used "as is" except perhaps the rear decklid, but wait.....Kindig hasn't finished the car yet.....
Either guy could have reached out to the VERY HARD TO FIND Pantera community to ask for someone with a donor body to use, to test this whole Roadster Shop thing out.... (I apologize if I missed the Ring Bros or anyone else that sorta did this....hopefully not with a perfectly good example of a car to begin with....!)
The fact that this was being discussed two years back and while waiting for RS to complete a chassis, gave two years worth of time....to find such a beast to use. (Presuming the car still actually has not been finished..... but still......how long would it really take to find a rusty body to donate to the cause.......? 15-20 minutes?
I had to chuckle when Kindig stated something to the effect of "here comes the hate mail" and thought I would never do that.....but NOW after seeing the gross carnage that they inflicted on this car and giving it some thought, I AM THE ONE sewing the non-love factor!!!! After looking at the car somewhat assembled and with the wheels etc, I lost any love that I may have had for the project's implementation.
If anyone like myself pulled up to a POCA national event, jumped out of their car in mid crowd, and started beating their car to death with a sledge hammer, I'd hope that someone will pull me off of it.......but essentially, that is what this owner AND Kindig did on national TV and they're laughing about it!!!? What if the car were a 1966 427 Cobra, Yenko Camaro, Cougar, (yes they made 427 cars!), Hemi Cuda, or a Shelby GT500????
I'd bet that it wouldn't have been done...... (and yes, I understand that it may have been done in the past, when all of the aforementioned cars were pennies on the dollars during the 70's 80's......) but not today!!! ....until now.
So Kindig physically and actually destroys a $100K car, get's paid $100K to do so, and the owner likely gets a car that can't negotiate a driveway without a pit crew and wood ramps! Only a melt down on an episode of "Jersey Shore" could perhaps be more ugly.....
THATS HOW I FEEL TODAY! It's ok, call me a hater Dave......I occasionally do like some of the work you guys do, but next time, please display some intelligence if at all blooming possible!!! Please. Maybe we can blame this disaster on Covid...got to all of youse brains......
Ciao!
S
It’s annoying how much he keeps saying “I love Panteras so much”… but more so he likes the IDEA of a Pantera, and always wanted to make his own version. I think you can look at what Foose did, and then say there’s a guy that loves the car and didn’t want to mess with it.
This same thing happened when the Ring Brother's built their Pantera. Some loved it, some hated it and some were actually angry. Love it or hate it, our Panteras all became more valuable because of the exposure that car received. Last I heard it was on loan to the Peterson Museum. The same will happen with the Kindigit Pantera. Many people who have paid little attention to Panteras in the past will now pay attention. A show like this raises the profile of Panteras in general. We, as owners, all benefit accordingly.
Oh, and if you think Kindig got paid $100K to build this car, you're way, way off. Add a zero and you'll be closer.
As i understand it the starting budget for his builds is $250k.
I understand the argument that any exposure is good exposure, and the last 5 to 10 years have certainly seen a big up turn in the media popularity of the cars we have been in love with for decades.
that being said, prior to our newly recognized car world celebrity status, we were viewed as the red headed step child of the exotic car world. Cheap vinyl interior, hydraulic flat tappet V8 engine, single carburetor, multiple components sourced from parts bins across the world, and early press reviews that were almost universally far from filled with any praise.
In short, our cars were not appreciated because they were not exotic enough. And that attitude has allowed a continual procession of poorly thought-out and often poorly executed modified Panteras.
It was almost as though the car world had said,
“Do whatever you want to those poor Panteras, they were never really that good to begin with.”
Despite all of the craftsmanship required, what Kindig did to that beautiful Pantera is arguably the worst defiling of a Pantera anyone has ever done.
He surely did not elevate the ….prestige…. of our cars, but just followed in the irreverent footsteps of similar fools.
”Hi, I’m Dave, and I’m going to completely destroy a beautiful car that really isn’t worth much, so I don’t feel that bad about destroying it.”
🤬
Larry
There are car people, and there are shops that will do anything to make a buck. A famous customizer in the early '60s cut up a Maserati racecar (one of 3 built) to make a hot rod. He scrapped the Weber equipped V-12.... I used to have a photo of an XKE with Cadillac tailfins carefully grafted on. And for those with strong stomachs, there's the Odd Goose.....
I agree with everything said. However, a customer brought his car to Dave to work his magic and pay him accordingly.
The customer should have known better to start out with a garbage donor car instead of destroying a solid car (I did cringe at the thought of all that good metal being trashed). Again, if he has the money give him what he wants.
FWIW - I had the opportunity to meet Dave at the Woodward Cruise several years ago - we spent some time talking about cars - he is a very personable guy and I do love his work.
....OK, so I was off a teeny tiny $100K plus or minus another $100K, on my project cost guesstimate.....watching too many cheap assed home improvement shows with the wife....has my entire outlook on car projects distorted!!!
I also think that being a solely Mangusta owner has given me a jaded edge at looking at our cars...with the GOose being so low a survivor from original production, putting any of the remains back on the road for one of those cars is great and I spent/spend a lot of time encouraging others to do so! Now, Goose is out of the picture and owning a Pantera leaves me with some of the same thinking still in the picture!
Then there's the ol' "ya can fix anything" way of thinking too, which I think my father instilled in me a bit!!!! Even rust! 
Hate rust.......
Good comments by all!!!
Merry Christmas!!!!
Steve
Hay, Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to everyone,
Let's take a brake and start bashing the "Reality Shows" later.
And we know that needs to be done!
I'm not surprised at any of this, including the responses. It was all very predictable.
Nothing positive will happen from all of it. The best that can happen is that it will be like the "Gone in 60 seconds" '67 GT500 and people will think THAT one is the real one. So much for name recognition?
For most billionaires a $100k pantera is viewed the way most would see a $100 car. No big deal.
I also did not like watching them chop it to pieces but was in awe of the metal fab those guys do. Absolute artists.
looking forward to seeing the finished product. Hopefully EBJ will bring it to the Tutto Italiano at Larz Anderson when it is done.
Kindig always seems to "start" with an original car and then cut. I wonder if that is because the original Pantera s/n and i.d. is retained and the owner can continue to say "it's an original 71 P" and Kindig's approach is to always use an original car as the basis - just his approach to customizing I guess. Having flared my car to Gp IV, I am not in a position to throw stones as we that have modified our cars are only different shades apart. I do agree with the comment that it "seems" Pantera's as a marque have had a fair amount of heavy customization by their owners as opposed to say the Ferrari or Lamborghini crowd, I assume because until recently, the cars were relatively inexpensive / unwanted relative to the other Italian marques. Perhaps that is changing now.
At the end of the day, the Pantera is not a super low production car. If they had carved up a Goose I think I would be more upset. Considering how many cars we have saved that probably should have made it to the great car heap in the sky it doesn’t bother me that much. And considering how customized many Pantera owners have modified their cars I guess I thought folks would have been less angry (probably too strong a word, maybe miffed). Reminds me of some of the feedback Stanceworks gets for carving up the 308. At the very least I like to see the discussion on the board!!
Granted that there is a degree of hypocrisy about the entire scenario but as soon as I heard who was going to do what to a Pantera, it's not surprising where it went and wound up as?
Some think it is ok for them to "modify" the car and not others?
I suppose if it was a Mustang coupe it wouldn't even be worthy of a mention?
"C'est La Vie" say the 'old folks, goes to show you never can tell?"
