I think we all should embrace the fact that these cars are coming into there own.
Narrow body, GT5,GT5S, these are all iconic and before their time. The GT5-S today will WOW just about anybody with a pulse.
The Black car has issues from what I can see in the pics, looks like an original car needing some tlc, I guess the price was reflective on its condition.
Wayne
quote:Originally posted by Joules:quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:
Big time. Go to the Haggerty Valuation Report and check values. He ensures them based on actual purchase prices and live auction prices. I may be responsible for the 5-Steel prices but not the narrow body prices.
That is misleading; Hagerty values include for '71 through '74 cars by year and body style (pre-L, L and GTS). No where are the later non Ford era cars featured.
So you purchased 2 or 3 GT5-S with someones money, which represents a large proportion of recent sales. Yes you have most certainly influenced the market, it being so small. We need to wait and see if you were prudent or not, unless your buyer continues to buy all 187, then he can set the market!
Jules did you not read the question? The question of Italford was' will this drag up the values of other Panteras' with no mention of 5-Steel cars. I answered his question directly using Haggerty Valuation for an example. Kindly reread his question then my direct answer before commenting.
quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:
Jules did you not read the question? The question of Italford was' will this drag up the values of other Panteras' with no mention of 5-Steel cars. I answered his question directly using Haggerty Valuation for an example. Kindly reread his question then my direct answer before commenting.
I hate to get into a public argument, I sent you a PM with some hopefully constructive comments to think about.
Julian
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?
Doug,
Not so much an argument as a discussion around setting a market value. If I went out and paid $500K for a GT5-S is that the new market value? Probably not, but if I bought 5 at that price it may very well be, however I have set that price, not the market.
It's the same if I buy stock 3% (5 of 187) of all available stock in a company which will likely influence the stock price. That in itself creates attention and other investors will buy, but typically once the frenzy is over that stock drops back to a market dictated value. Of course that is the stock market, but investors are getting out of that because of volatility and investing in collector cars. Collector cars have as such become a traded commodity.
We will have to wait and see if the GT5-S commodity is the same, but if you keep buying then you can keep the price high and will own a higher percentage of the available 'stock'!
Wall Street comes to Main Street USA!
If you bought a 73 for 25 is that the value?
5 out of 187 up 100% from this time last year shows a high water mark.
Just like the Dow it is a market indicator.
Are there customers for 182 more at $225? Unlikely BUT it is HIGHLY likely the vast majority of those cars won't be for sale anytime soon.
Just like needing an engine pulley that cost $10 new but is so scarce that you have to pay $500 to get a good used one, there are similarities here.
The GT5's are rarer than the Mangustas OR any of the street Cobras. They are virtually going to demand their own price.
Those are both $25,000 cars that command whatever. $500,000 to $1,000,000.
Are they worth that? If someone is willing to pay that for them and certainly current owners aren't going to offer a car at under that number.
If you want one, you are going to have to pay what the seller wants. He doesn't care if you think it is unreasonable.
5 out of 187 up 100% from this time last year shows a high water mark.
Just like the Dow it is a market indicator.
Are there customers for 182 more at $225? Unlikely BUT it is HIGHLY likely the vast majority of those cars won't be for sale anytime soon.
Just like needing an engine pulley that cost $10 new but is so scarce that you have to pay $500 to get a good used one, there are similarities here.
The GT5's are rarer than the Mangustas OR any of the street Cobras. They are virtually going to demand their own price.
Those are both $25,000 cars that command whatever. $500,000 to $1,000,000.
Are they worth that? If someone is willing to pay that for them and certainly current owners aren't going to offer a car at under that number.
If you want one, you are going to have to pay what the seller wants. He doesn't care if you think it is unreasonable.
quote:Originally posted by Joules:quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:
Jules did you not read the question? The question of Italford was' will this drag up the values of other Panteras' with no mention of 5-Steel cars. I answered his question directly using Haggerty Valuation for an example. Kindly reread his question then my direct answer before commenting.
I hate to get into a public argument, I sent you a PM with some hopefully constructive comments to think about.
Julian
Julian , I hope you get a replay.
I dont understand why Sharkey is so proud whit other peoples money.
he sud be proud if he owns them all he has bought
bdw this is my last comment on this .
Simon
Simon
Simon
This wonderful news, Soon it will dawn on the market that their are only around 2000 est. stock bodied cars left and that they, the originals are the most beautiful.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:quote:Originally posted by Simon:quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.
Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?
When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.
Not when the money come from somebody else.
I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon
What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?
quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:quote:Originally posted by Simon:quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.
Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?
When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.
Not when the money come from somebody else.
I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon
What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?
He doesn't get it Doug.
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.
I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.
I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.
quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:quote:Originally posted by Simon:quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:
Incorrect. I have buyers that trust my judgement. I tell them what they should pay, within my comfort level. One of my buyers is a GT-40 collector, who was standing next to me on stage in Kissimmee waiting for me pull the trigger. I've been directly responsible in four documented 5-S sales within the last 90 days including one celebrity purchase. That number will be five as soon as I get title details on the maroon DeTomaso built 5-S car in Nevada, that was imported by George Stauffer. I already have it sold for yet another record price. Stand by.
Arent we not all puppets from a puppeteer into a puppetshow?
And you are maybe the head puppet?
When you buy them all whit your own money ,than you are the man.
Not when the money come from somebody else.
I like also that the prices are going up and I believe also that Pantera's are a good investment , but the most I like is the hobby.
Simon
What does it matter who buys them? Five cars well over $200,000, sold is five cars well over $200,000, sold? Where is the argument?
He doesn't get it Doug.
I agree. Either that or there is a VERY bad language issue.
A rising tide floats all boats.
Your buyers wanted the cars for the money.
I saw this happen recently with the Ford GT's. Call it a disbelief, a resistance, a bad attitude, whatever. It all applied.
People were bitchin' about spending $135,000, on them two years ago and that they paid too much.
You can't touch one for under $300,000, now. There are a lot more of them then the GT5 Panteras. Enough said?
It isn't market manipulation, it is what is called, free market here in the Capitalistic world.
I don't want to continue with this though. It sounds like I am lecturing and that is not my intention at all.
In various venues of specific cars, there will always be educated agents that are contacted by buyers to find, evaluate & procure certain cars, in this case of Pantera widebodies that agent is "Sharkey".
I personally would seek out an agent that has knowledge & especially the most important part, that being "Contacts" when pursuing an acquisition of a relatively expensive & limited production numbers car.
It's NOT as though Sharkey has the ability/ies to raise a paddle for an independent buyer at an auction, that is PURELY the action of the bidder.
The current rise in Pantera values in all configurations for myself is reminiscent of Ferrari Dino & Lamborghini Countach appreciation over the last 5 years.
The skeptics that balked in disbelief at $200,000.00 Ferrari Dinos, must be in full cardiac arrest at current $500,000.00 Dino prices.
Learned a LOOOOOOOOOONG TIME AGO!!!...that sitting on the bench in regards to NOT buying cars because of personal perceived "Over Valuation"...meant I NEVER got in the game!!!
Lesson well learned...thus the reason I currently own 18 Sports Cars...MANY having TRIPLED in value during my ownership!
I personally would seek out an agent that has knowledge & especially the most important part, that being "Contacts" when pursuing an acquisition of a relatively expensive & limited production numbers car.
It's NOT as though Sharkey has the ability/ies to raise a paddle for an independent buyer at an auction, that is PURELY the action of the bidder.
The current rise in Pantera values in all configurations for myself is reminiscent of Ferrari Dino & Lamborghini Countach appreciation over the last 5 years.
The skeptics that balked in disbelief at $200,000.00 Ferrari Dinos, must be in full cardiac arrest at current $500,000.00 Dino prices.
Learned a LOOOOOOOOOONG TIME AGO!!!...that sitting on the bench in regards to NOT buying cars because of personal perceived "Over Valuation"...meant I NEVER got in the game!!!
Lesson well learned...thus the reason I currently own 18 Sports Cars...MANY having TRIPLED in value during my ownership!
quote:Originally posted by Otis:
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.
I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.
quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:quote:Originally posted by Otis:
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.
I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.
Amen Brother. I work hard for my money. It is difficult at best to tell someone that is sending you all across North America, this car isn't for you, it's edgy, it has undisclosed issues. Let's pass on this one. But they take it well, and in time, I get the right car for them. Thanks for the kind words Otis.
Sharkey is the "TOP DOG" applaud him, don't dam him for providing a professional service to his clients, they are obviously happy with Sharkey's judgment as well as their own.
Ahhh, nothing like a yellow chrome bumper....
Thus the reason I DON'T allow dogs near my cars!quote:Originally posted by Sharkey:
Ahhh, nothing like a yellow chrome bumper....
quote:Originally posted by Otis:
Can't we just agree that Pantera's seem to be on the way up in value and the GT5S are leading the pack?
I am quite pleased our cars are finally getting some recognition from original, to modified, narrow bodies to wide. Maybe the next time I am at a show or out for a drive people will actually know what the hell I am driving, or even have read up on Detomaso or Panteras. The last thing I want to see is people carving owners and buyers over values like on certain Shelby forums where anything that isn't concourse or has an improper $1.30 caution fan sticker on the shroud is labelled worthless and the owner belittled.
I don't think anyone is just dropping off a truck load of cash for Sharkey to go spend recklessly. Any interested buyer is still going to have a budget/price limit, so even if Sharkey is purchasing them they obviously trust his experience/expertise and are willing to pay up for the car they want.
Congratulations on the recent deals, Sharkey.
Otis is without question "on the money" here.
in 2013 I was told that my 3840GTS, that I had bought from Gullwing for $41k was a $25K car
at the time that was a correct assessment, but I can only say that I am pleased that the values have increased, and I consider myself very fortunate to now not having lost money I can't afford to. That said, I do feel for those who always wanted a DTPantera but find the prices now prevent a purchase. Its a Bugger!
You've got no idea how privileged I feel getting my car even though its just a standard Pre-L for the price I did. I know I need to spend $$'s on it to get it perfect, but even then it'll be worth so much more than the initial investment + costs to do.
Not that I'm ever selling it - my girls are already fighting over it.
Not that I'm ever selling it - my girls are already fighting over it.