Wanting to convert to electronic ignition. Are MSD parts the best? Any feedback on Crane?
It appears MSD is the standard, any idea what part numbers I need and the best place to purchase?
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My personal favorite is MSD HANDS DOWN!Ive used mallory, crane,accel and motorcraft before,and while some are okay,some are not.If you do decide to go Msd get either a 6al(has rev limiter) or 6a box and either the billet or pro billet dist.The pro billet is smaller in diameter so it fits better in tight areas but the billet will fit if you move your wiring loom up or down on the firewall.You will also need a tach adapter #8920.I get most of my sped parts from Summit,Jegs,Paw etc.Hope this helps.
Sorry,i forgot the part #s.Thru summit the #s are;billet dist.msd-8580,pro billet dist. msd-8577,6AL box msd-6420,6A box msd-6200,tach adapt msd-8920.
that is exactly the setup I am currently using and I am very happy with results so far. I am using the Pro-Billet distributor, 6A box and also an MSD" Pro-Blaster" coil and MSD ignition wires. The tach is sometimes difficult but if you go on MSD"s website and follow the directions for hooking up the tach adaptor using the "Voltage Triggered" diagram you should have no problems. The MSD website at msdignition.com is fantastic, with instruction downloads, troubleshooting guides and good information throughout. When I called for some help, the phone was answered by a real live human being, who transferred me to a techie who answered my questions. (no push 1 for service; 2 for sales; 3 for tech etc., etc.).
I got it all from Summit.
Good luck,
Gary #06984
I got it all from Summit.
Good luck,
Gary #06984
I went with the Mallory Unilite! Went right in, fired right up and the Tach works just like always! Regards, Marlin.
I used a pertronic. You dont have to pull the dist or anything. Basically replaces the points with a electronic unit. Keep your points in the glove box just in case the unit goes bad on the street. Also used one on my 70 AMX.
The "best" for what? MSDs are widely sold, but when (not 'if' but 'when') they fail (and all will fail), exact replacements are not always available in all towns. So its a good idea to carry a complete extra unit around with you, just like the Winston Cup guys do. Some Pantera owners actually mount & pre-wire an extra unit so its only a matter of throwing a switch to activate a second one. I resisted for years running electronic just because of the reliability issues, but since few places now make mechanical units for 351-Cs, recently I installed a Ford 460 unit. While this unit still has reliability issues IMHO, it is a drop-in mod to the 351-C & cheap replacement parts can be found at any auto parts store in the Western Hemisphere. It works for me..... so far.
First off, THANK YOU everyone for the great and timely information. I am a new Pantera owner and it is nice to have this community similar to other owner groups.
I was operating on the assumption that the main reasons for conversion were performance IN ADDITION TO reliability. I live 10 miles from Dennis at Pantera Performance and he has been urging the conversion to MSD mostly for reliability.
I was operating on the assumption that the main reasons for conversion were performance IN ADDITION TO reliability. I live 10 miles from Dennis at Pantera Performance and he has been urging the conversion to MSD mostly for reliability.
I keep the dual point accel, a complete distributor, in my nose trunk with a timing light. Just in case. I can drop it in ("eyeball" the rotor alignment), plug it in(same plugs), transfer the plug cables, fire it up, time it, and I'am GONE!! I don't like to stay "broke down" on the side of the road for more than 10 or 15 minutes! Marlin.
There's reliability, and then there's getting home with a poor-running but still turning engine. All electronic ignitions with the possible exception of some PerTronics drop-in modules, will fail only once, totally. Mechanical units deteriorate constantly from new but seldom fail to the point of shutting off the engine. We have a choice....
Second point: its been proven over and over again on dynomometers world-wide that a super-power ignition that fires sparkplugs under tar will make zero extra horsepower over a plain-vanilla points 'n coil setup that is properly adjusted. What the electronic units allow is a total lack of old-time preventive maintenence, which agrees with most car owners nowadays. They are also more easily integrated with big-brother's beloved brain-boxes to keep emissions low.
Second point: its been proven over and over again on dynomometers world-wide that a super-power ignition that fires sparkplugs under tar will make zero extra horsepower over a plain-vanilla points 'n coil setup that is properly adjusted. What the electronic units allow is a total lack of old-time preventive maintenence, which agrees with most car owners nowadays. They are also more easily integrated with big-brother's beloved brain-boxes to keep emissions low.
quote:
Originally posted by jack deryke:
There's reliability, and then there's getting home with a poor-running but still turning engine. All electronic ignitions with the possible exception of some PerTronics drop-in modules, will fail only once, totally. Mechanical units deteriorate constantly from new but seldom fail to the point of shutting off the engine. We have a choice....
Second point: its been proven over and over again on dynomometers world-wide that a super-power ignition that fires sparkplugs under tar will make zero extra horsepower over a plain-vanilla points 'n coil setup that is properly adjusted. What the electronic units allow is a total lack of old-time preventive maintenence, which agrees with most car owners nowadays. They are also more easily integrated with big-brother's beloved brain-boxes to keep emissions low.
Jack,
That is great information to know. I love my Accel dual point distributor model 30202
and I have the tools, long arms and know how to take care of it. I guess I�ll keep it!!!!!!
Learn more about it at http://www.panteraplace.com/page69.htm
Mike
Like YOU said, from the moment a new set of points is fired up, it starts burning out! What an electronic ignition ALSO does is maintain it's exact accuracy, since when points burn and the rubbing block wears, dwell and timing change. I will stay with the unilite! Breaking a light beam is not effected by magnetic fields as magnetic pick-ups are. Regards, Marlin.
quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
Like YOU said, from the moment a new set of points is fired up, it starts burning out! What an electronic ignition ALSO does is maintain it's exact accuracy, since when points burn and the rubbing block wears, dwell and timing change. I will stay with the unilite! Breaking a light beam is not effected by magnetic fields as magnetic pick-ups are. Regards, Marlin.
Hold on there Marlin, the �Boss Wrench� Jack Deryke knows his Pantera stuff! If he says that dual point distributors rule, they do! In the 44 years I�ve been running dual points (starting with my full-race 59AB) they have never, never left me stranded beside the road. No spare parts need to be stowed away in the car either! Some of the solid state units like the PerTronics actually reduce the dwell angle compared to dual points, reducing the coil saturation and therefore reduce the spark voltage. That�s a quote from the PerTronics tech help line.
Besides, it�s kind of like a cool, exclusive club to have dual points and that�s how Mr. de Tomaso wanted it. I�m keeping my 30202 and that�s it!
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Dailey (edited 12-13-2002).]
Perhaps dual points work for you Mike..but for someone like me who's not as mechanically inclined as you are...the best upgrade I ever did to my Pantera was switching to a Ford electronic ignition. My Pantera enjoyment has gone UP ten-fold since the upgrade.
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Perry:
Perhaps dual points work for you Mike..but for someone like me who's not as mechanically inclined as you are...the best upgrade I ever did to my Pantera was switching to a Ford electronic ignition. My Pantera enjoyment has gone UP ten-fold since the upgrade.
Being tall and having long arms to reach the distributor is the important part. The rest is easy!
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Dailey (edited 12-13-2002).]
Mike, I'm 6'5" with long arms... Being tall makes no difference to me (i'm average mechanical folk).
Maybe ive just been lucky,but i have never had an Msd fail.Ive been using them on everything i own since 1986.I have always hated adjusting points,and on a Pantera its a royal pain.Another cool thing about Msd is that you can get an adjustable timing control unit and adjust your timing from inside the passenger compartment while you drive.I use this and its great for different types of gas,altitudes,and setting timing for mpg vs. power.My car also made 4 more hp. at the rear wheels on a chassis dyno with the Msd.Its not much but it all adds up.
Personally I like the Ford Motorcraft Duraspark II ignition. Easy to convert. You have two choices, keep the Points distrubutor or use a newer one from a 460 which is a direct bolt replacement. They are reliable and can be changed on the road at any parts store for $20. Either way, here is the hookup.
Blue gromet Duraspark II. (78 Ford Pickup)
Hook Green wire to Coil Negative
Leave Coil Positive to the resistor wire.
Hook Red wire to ignition power at switch before the resistor.
Hook Black wire to ground
Hook white wire to "S" terminal of the starter relay. This gives a 10 degree retard when starting to help start a hot engine.
If you use the 460 distributor, then hook the orange and Purple wires to the dizzie of the same color.
If you use a Points distributor then hook the orange and purple wires together and connect them to the points. Remove the condensor.
This conversion works well and is really easy. Had a friend to it to his boat and leave the points in. Picked up 3 mph top speed and 5 seconds faster to plane.
Blue gromet Duraspark II. (78 Ford Pickup)
Hook Green wire to Coil Negative
Leave Coil Positive to the resistor wire.
Hook Red wire to ignition power at switch before the resistor.
Hook Black wire to ground
Hook white wire to "S" terminal of the starter relay. This gives a 10 degree retard when starting to help start a hot engine.
If you use the 460 distributor, then hook the orange and Purple wires to the dizzie of the same color.
If you use a Points distributor then hook the orange and purple wires together and connect them to the points. Remove the condensor.
This conversion works well and is really easy. Had a friend to it to his boat and leave the points in. Picked up 3 mph top speed and 5 seconds faster to plane.