It's dead

Yep. I remember when I had the old engine in, it would never start after it had gotten hot. I would have to sit there and wait for the engine to cool down. Like an hour before she would turn over fast enough to catch. I had to arrange my driving around that little annouance. But I will be honest, now that it is fixed, I wouldn't ever go back to "just being patient".

The stock fuel delivery system is vulnerable to vapor lock. You usually need a hot engine to create the conditions.

In order to eleviate the problem, the carb needs a superior heat isolator gasket, the fuel system needs a really good fuel pump.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to switch the fuel pickup location for the system to the bottom tank plug either.

If you are going to be stuborn and resist, you at least need to verify fuel pressure at the carb and check you fuel level settings HOT.

105? Ah that ain't nothing. The car doesn't know the difference. Only you feel it.

I know only I felt the heat...and I WAS feeling it. It was 105 outside, but hotter in the car, with the windows up (because of the rain) and high humidity. I was soaked in sweat. Eventually I got out of the car because it was better to be soaked with cool water.


I waited for two hours but it just clicked, with the occasional attempt to turn over, but it didn't fire. I was able to do that because of my phone. I must have answered fifty emails and taken 20 calls (and I typed my rant above).

When I ran out of work to do I called the tow truck.

Thanks for the advice...sorry this turned into an accidental tech forum-type post.

It did feel like vapor lock. The engine was running hot (210-220). It has a new carb, and the mechanic removed the two inch spacer which he said was probably for heat isolation. I told him I was OK with removing it because it meant I could finally see with my rear view mirror. Maybe it needs to go back in. The fuel pump has been checked.

Robert
#4680

Time to go home.

There are different types of carb insulators. Probably a 1/2" phenolitic spacer plate will work.

The problem with the Pantera is that the fuel pump has to draw the fuel upward to get it out of the tank.
Fuel pumps don't like to suck. Especially when it is hot and fuel can vaporize in the fuel line just from the heat of the atmosphere, not to mention the heat of the Pantera engine compartment.

If you don't insulate the carb in some way when you shut off the engine the heat rises out of the engine and will actually boil the fuel out of the carb. Sometimes it perculates so much (like a coffee pot) that you will flood the engine will fuel just sitting there.

210-220 isn't terrible if your fuel line is pressurized properly. New cars normally run hotter then that. You really need 7 psi at the carb especially when it is hot.

The engine will tell you that it is too hot when you try to start it and the starter can't turn the engine over or it does so very slowly.
That isn't a weak battery or even a weak starter necessarily. It means the engine is HOT.

105 degrees and raining? Wow. That's screwie.
I've never experienced that. That must "stay in Vegas" huh?

Robert,

Aside from being verry careful, how did you get the car on the flatbed without power and avoid scraping the air dam or damaging with the pull cable?
Sorry to hear about your trouble. Yep, been there done that.

Cousteau

On the bright side, the car looks great!!!

Robert, my man, I haven't a technical insight to share really but empathize with completely.

Truly "been there".

The FIRST DAY I got my car, it sputtered as if on low fuel, then I filled up and pffft. Died. Would start, then upon giving gas, died again. VERY FRUSTRATING.

MY PROB was fuel delivery, as in a fuel filter that looked like roof tar. Changed it out, poof! Came to life. Paranoia or the lessened desire to sit by the side of the road any more and I got - New fuel pump, lines, another inline filter etc. THAT problem is gone.

Hey, you've got a GORGEOUS car that WILL run and make you happy, but it's old, and needs attention. Listen to the wise people on this board and enjoy that thing.

Keep us posted. It's gonna be great.

Well, having been there like the rest of us, this is one of the problems that money easily solves. After complex fixes, I just went to the hi torque starter, heavy duty alternator, MSD ignition with a new coil. I never have any problem starting - hot, cold, or wet - from Death Valley to Canadian Winters.

Hey Robert - I too have been there - although if I wait a while, it will fire up again - so that sounds a bit different than your situation - folks said that because of that, it appears to be a starter motor issue - Deeb, what starter motor did you get??

Robert, keep us posted on the fix - and hang in there.

I got Hall's mega torque starter and 100 amp alternator.

Hey Robert, that is one nice car you have there. Don't worry. Be happy. Over time it will reflect your own good taste and become a fabulous, reliable, Porsche and Ferrari killer. Not to worry.

Thanks for all the support and advice. I have taken a lot of time (and around $8,000) to make sure the car has everything it needs to come back from four years in storage.

The clicking/non starting seams to be the last remaining problem...assuming the high water temp will be fixed by installing the correct thermostat and the vapor lock will be fixed by putting the original carb back on (the new one doesn't seam to get better milage anyway, might as well go back the doube pumper).

Deeb, make sure you call me before going to events...I would hate to show up wearing the same car. Our cars will be disturbing alike when I paint my bumpers and trim black. Where can I find more pictures of your ride?

R.

Cousteau, I use the same towing company every time. They have a lot of experience with exotics and they don't rush.

They use a lot of wood in front of the ramp to decrease the angle, and it makes it up the ramp with a half inch to spare.

R.

I can relate to the sitting thing.
My issues were directly related to a loose nut behind the wheel though.
NEVER take a Pantera through an auto wash with an under carriage spray..........
I was in a hurry, trying to get the car ready for a car show the next morning so I "cheated", kept it going through the deluge and out the other side, but I shut it off too soon after to wipe her down. Moisture in the distributor kept me in the parkinglot for an hour and a half.
Got to meet a bunch of people who stopped to look at the "cool car" lol. Even broke down, you still have the coolest car in the lot.
Is it possible your issue may have been related to the rain and high humidity?

I got my distributor wet once as well. Met many people while waiting for it to start.

But no, this clicking happens more and more often. Today, days after it vapor locked and died it continues. This morning I turned the key, it cranked but didn't fire. Every time I tried turned the key after that it just clicked. It isn't the battery and jumping doesn't help.

R.

So what did the problem turn out to be?

Robert,

I'm going to take a stab here and suggest you have electrical connection trouble.

A poor electrical connection adds resistance to a circuit, creates a voltage drop, leaves less voltage to supply the load, the point of resistance will get hot, and as it gets hotter the resistance increases, the voltage drop becomes worse...

A bad engine ground will affect both the starter and the ignition.

Start at the battery and service the connections at both ends of the following cables: (1) chassis ground to battery (2) battery to starter relay (3) starter relay to starter (4) engine block to chassis (5) transmission to chassis.

The ignition switch should always be suspect. If your car has electronic ignition (MSD 6AL is most common) then the current in the ignition circuit is too much for the contacts in the ignition switch. those contacts shall burn, create another point of resistance & the resulting voltage drop will eventually result in insufficient voltage to the ignition.

This can be checked by acquiring a 12 foot length of 12 gauge stranded wire with alligator clips on both ends. Hook one end of the wire to the battery and the other end to the supply terminal of the ignition. If the motor runs with this jumper in place, but does not run with it removed, your ignition switch is toast. time to install a relay to supply the ignition.

cowboy from hell

Sounds like the same symptoms that happened to me when my alternator went.
Will