Hello,


My message originally started here : http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...90052674/m/233101936
but since it's not anymore the right section I continue here wich is a more appropriate section.

Let's make a point : I'am from France and I have now a 1971 Pantera in my garage wich I bought myself in Indianapolis.

I have some problems with it.

The cat has been seating for a long time after a restoration. Last days I had several rides with it and it appears that I have a leak....not a small one.
It goes all over the engine, it reaches the back window as you can see on the picture.

Yesterday someone who knows a little bit about american engines came to my place, he thinks upper engine gaskets are shoots...

Hard to say, I'am going to restart the car and to look at the engine bay to confirm...I didn't do it yet.


See on my picture, waht I call "upper engine gaskets" is highlight in red.
I speak well english but I'm not familiar with mechanical terms but I think it's the right term.

Also see on my picture oil all over the engine is highlight in blue.

I want good stuff for my car...well in fact I just want to stop that leak...
So where can I find on Internet the gaskets I need ? and is it hard to replace myself ?

The leak might comes from somewhere else ??? Any idea ?


Another question, is the accelerator cable normal to you ? it seems that it has been badly fix...


Thanks to all of you for help newbies like me !

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Original Post
The left most arrow indicates a leak from the valve cover gasket. It may be the bolts are just loose. However, replacement, if necessary is very straight forward. Recommend a gasket with a metal core which will maintain its shape. The other arrows and the blue circle are leaks from the intake manifold. Not unusual on a 351C. A gasket kit includes "S" shaped gaskets which sometimes seal, sometimes not. Some people prefer a bead of RTV instead of the gasket. Once again, not difficult to replace. Once advantage of the 351C design is the intake does not contain coolant so taking one off is fairly simple.
To bring a precision my red arrows doesn't show where it leaks
I wanted to show what I called " upper engine gasket"

I'm reading you with a lot of interest. So keep saying what you think

first I'm going to check the bolts.
Then if I need to buy those gaskets. Where can I on internet?

thanks
Frederic, Careful there is always some sweating (transpiration) versus a leak - where you can see a drop. Very few motors are totally dry.

Not saying that there might not be other problems.

Denis
If it is spraying oil all over the window it should be easy to find. That would be a major leak that is misting or spraying oil! Check the remote oil filters they are problematic and the dip stick connection on the front of the engine.

That vacuum line for the power brakes is looking scary along with the throttle cable. I wouldn’t drive it until that is fixed. The valve cover cap on the driver side should be vented to the air cleaner. Here are a few links that should help:

Intake http://www.panteraplace.com/page131.htm
Valve covers http://www.panteraplace.com/page226.htm
PCV flow http://www.panteraplace.com/page22.htm hose http://www.panteraplace.com/page97.htm

Mike
quote:
it's really leaking a lot, I have lot of oil on my back window.

Something elso to check that may be a leak NOT requiring gasket replacement.

Your Pantera has remote oil filters mounted on the wheelhouse brace. This is not original.

The hoses to and from those two filters must have threaded fittings. I would check all of them and make sure they are tight. Also, the hoses probably attach to an adapter plate that mounts where the stock oil filter was mounted. This adapter can unscrew over time, and it will leak a lot of oil.

This is what the adapter might look like. It will be at the front of the engine, behind the driver. Follow the hoses.... Wink

Larry

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I suggest for you to take off the interior access covers, and look at the front main seal. An oil leak there will get on the damper, and oil will get all over the front of the engine and your window glass. I can only see oil all over your window by being sprayed there (under pressure) or flung there (from the damper). Let us know what you find. Rodney
quote:
Originally posted by UFO-LOW:
I suggest for you to take off the interior access covers, and look at the front main seal. An oil leak there will get on the damper, and oil will get all over the front of the engine and your window glass. I can only see oil all over your window by being sprayed there (under pressure) or flung there (from the damper). Let us know what you find. Rodney


That is a good idea and you would want to inspect the front of the engine on a new car for belts, etc. But you can easily see that area without jacking up the car by using a mirror and a trouble light. You do this from the side of the car and just reach under the pulley area with the mirror.

Mike
dealers and parts jobbers have oil leak dyes you can add to your oil. These will quickly identify leak sources with the use of a blacklight. Cheap effective, time and cost saving.
Frederic,
I took a close look at your #2 photo, with the circles and arrows, I see two things:

#1 - very important - the sight plug of your carb secondary float bowl has come out. It is lying on the intake manifold / head, below the bracket of the dip stick. Maybe you took it out, or maybe it fell out. You must put it in place before running the engine again - that is a serious risk of fire.

#2 - to the right of the oil pressure sender, I see a gap between the intake valley pan (turkey pan) and the end seal. A red arrow points to it. I think this is the leak of oil around the sender.

When an engine is rebuilt, it is common to mill the head and / or block surface; for flatness or to raise compression. When this is done, the intake surface of the head (or manifold) must be milled also, or the manifold will not fit. It is usually the head that is milled, so an "out of the box" manifold will fit.

It is possible this was not done on your engine. If true, there may a gap at the front. Look there for a possible oil leak.

Good luck, Rodney
Sure. I am looking at your photo with the red arrows and blue circles.

Between the oil pressure sender and the ignition coil, you have a red arrow pointing at the back of the intake manifold. At the point of that arrow, it looks like there is a gap between the intake valley pan and the rubber end seal. If so, oil would leak out there, and pool around the sender. If indeed oil is leaking out here, it is possible there is a similar leak at the front of the manifold.

As for the little plug from your carb - look at the right valve cover. See the bolt that holds the dip stick bracket - look about 5 cm. down and to the left. Just near the #3 intake port, there is a little brass plug.
Cayman,

The accelerator cable and spring should be replaced.

The intake gaskets seems they used the factory metal turkey pan and neoprene gaskets for the rails. Replace them with High Perf aftermarket intake gaskets and silicone bead on the rails.

The valve cover gaskets I would install studs as factory on the Boss 302. Makes it simpler and use rubber gaskets instead of cork and the gasket stay in place. Copper coat one side so it sticks to the head ...makes it easy to remove the cover.

Ron
Ok I see know, I will check that this evening

The car has been restored 2 years ago.
After the restoration the car stayed in the garage til I bought it.
While I was buying it, i was in relation with the garage, it's call Gear head street customs in Indianapolis.

I told them I have a leak and they answered it could not be the the gaskets...they are pretty sure.

Anyway I have a lot of points to check...can't wait to see that.
Here I am

Yesterday evening I started to work on the pantera looking for the leak.
I cleaned up places where oil was, then took a ride of 25 minutes.

A first stop after 15 minutes : As I cleaned up, I could see that almost nothing came back, engine was running.
After 25 minutes : Engine shut off : Oil came back during the second part of my ride
---While the engine was running during my first stop, it was impossible for me to localise any leak. By the way what is the normal temperature of the engine ?

--- Front of the engine : Nothing, it’s all dry
--- Oil pressure sender : it doesn’t appear to be bend, there is very very few oil at the bottom
But still have lot of oil at his foot, where it forms like a “bath”.
--- Dip stick connection at the front : dry
--- Gaskets : Valve covers and intake, little bit of oil but didn’t see anything leaking when the engine was running. I have a feeling it’s not coming from them whereas there is some gaps. (it’s confirm by the garage : see the previous post).
The gap on the intake at the right of the oil pressure sender : not much oil on it.
--- Hoses of the oil filters (from and to) : Clean
--- Remote oil filter : Behind driver's seat : Clean
--- Bolts of valve covers : Yesterday I only had the time to check one (girlfriend calling me), ……….it was really loose !! So I will check all of them later when my girlfriend will get out shopping…lol.



To conclude :
What is wet by oil : Valve covers / the bottom of the big flat steel plate of the carb (full of oil) / “bath” at the feet of oil pressure sender / my back window (indirect) / some hoses but it’s indirect spray too.

What is dry : Oil pressure sender, the entire carburator, gaskets (almost dry), front of the engine, Intake.

I hope I’m not asking too much from you guys, I know I will have to handle this myself but since I didn’t see anything leaking while the engine was running, I’m a little bit confuse.


New pictures of the engine : Go to see, it can help !
http://picasaweb.google.com/10...soEngine?feat=email#
Couple of things come to mind:

1: missing gasket on valve cover breather, this will leak all over the cover and be thrown by air pressure all over the front of the engine and seep to the oil sender downstream.
2: Possible high crankcase pressure, with engine running and breather off, feel opening with hand, should be pretty neutral not greatly positive. These are the symptoms you are showing
3. I would change the oil pressure sending unit
4. I would not hesitate on replacing the throttle cable, get the last series with the built in spring, you will also need the carb bracket for that or trim the cable ends by about a quarter inch each.
5. If you are using a PCValve, check it and the vacuum circuit.
6. See number 4
7. IMHO

Good luck
Angelo
Angelo,Thanks for your answer

1 : On valve cover breather, gasket is not missing. I took it off for the picture. But in my opinion this whole piece is very loose, when I took it off it was very easy to do so. I just had to turn the aluminium cover 1/2 tour, we can see on the picture how it's fix on the valve cover.
The gasket is not even tight between the 2 surfaces.

As you say, the leak could come from there and also from the other side : PCValve



I have only one hose on passenger side going to the carb, no hose on the driver cap side, this a
is just a aluminium cap. I understand it's better to make the right circuit, I will start to look for parts.

I am going to clean the engine, put a piece of tissue on each valve covers. Take a ride : if oil is on the tissues and not all over the engine....I will know.



PS : I have already replaced the accelerator cable yesterday but just with a regular cable, it's already a lot better but I will certainly change it again for the last series.
Some news,

It's not the valve cover breather because I have checked that this week end, putting tissue on it and go for a ride = All dry on both of them.

Next try : On each red valve cover, there is a place where we can put a de tomaso logo plate. I don't have it so the space is free and there are 2 little holes on each to fix those plates...it would really surprise if nothing is there to "close" those holes. But it really could be that when I see where is the oil...
The two tiny holes that he speaks may have been for the spark plug wire supports, at least that's what they are if these are original Ford covers...not aftermarkets.

They were originally small rivets....

Good find!!!! I was going for the bad rubber gasket under the rear intake, right hand side myself!!!
Steve
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