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36 replies

LT-4 engine install

panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by P-MAXIMUS:
Well yes, you can build a big high power Cleveland. I know I built mine. My GT5-S is a 1988 car. It has a solid roller, CHI heads,a hand made rev-kit. Also it has sequential fuel injection, 398CID. It can turn 8000 rpm but I limit it to 7600. Cost for such an engine capable of that with the best parts and you will spend at least 18000.00 or better. But, that being said sure build an iron block, carbureted Cleveland with still old technology, and still try to bring it up to date with the best parts. You still have old tech. And the price you quote of $15,625 no one will pay that. As that is retail.
Try to build a Aluminum Cleveland, weather it be a Fontana or Dart, World products
you will spend 3-4000.00 just on the block. The LT4 has Direct Injection, no distributor gear to fail. All aluminum block and heads, supercharged with 650 Torque @ 4400 rpm, 650HP@6400. And in a smaller, lighter package. And running a ECU to do the timing, you can't get a distributor to control timing as that can.
So as tech gets better even lighter and more powerful engines will come out. If we can put that in our Pantera's why not?

Thanks, James



I am not sure what the balance of reliability is you are searching for.

IF you are going to run a ZF it is going to be seriously over loaded.

You are talking about an engine that is about what the race 427's were in the Mark II GT40's. They did not use ZF's.

So you get reliability from the engine with high tech. How do you get the reliability from the ZF? Just curious.

In addition, I can get 550hp and 500 (495ft-lbs) from an iron block Cleveland. MAYBE a $7,500 engine...maybe. An aluminum block is for show. The car is not going to be faster with it at all. When it gets dirty, you will loose the hots for it. A D2AE-CA block is all you need for the limits of the platform. It's just as fast.

These cars on the track top out right at 6700 to 6800 rpm in 5th. That's right where you want them.

Anyone who thinks they are building some sort of an Indy car and it is going to turn 8500 rpm has got the wrong platform.

You are talking a video game and if it's your fantasy...enjoy.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by George P:
The OP (Wayne) wanted to know what we thought of an LT4 installation in his GT5-S. Lets not get off of that subject. Please focus on Wayne's original inquiry.

Thank You


Well then just give us an emoticon with a thumbs up or a thumbs down. It will save a lot of bandwidth.
It's obvious to me that people when they ask for another's opinion ONLY want to hear it if you agree with them?
Like Jack Nicholson said "you can't take the truth!" Wink

Don't want to hear it? Don't ask. Big Grin
1973pantera1973panteraPantera # 5181
Would a prudent owner take an original 427 Cobra and drop a Chevy engine in it?
Would a prudent owner take an original Bizzarrini Strada and drop a Ford Coyote in it?
Would a prudent owner take an original 1967 Shelby GT500 and drop a Chevy engine in it?
Would a prudent owner take an original 1963 Split Window Corvette and drop a Ford Coyote in it?

Would a prudent owner take a limited production car; a piece of Ford powered history that was built in numbers that were literally 1/2 the number of 1965-1970 Shelbys ever built; a car designed as the replacement for the Shelby Cobra, and drop a Chevy engine it?

Only you can decide what is "right" for you, but just because one can doesn't always mean that one should.
davidnunndavidnunnMember
Wayne,
Although the LT4 is the latest of the GM crate engines, consider the LS7 as an alternative. It's normally aspirated, so you eliminate the complexity of the LT4's supercharger but a cam and intake swap will put you well north of 600 HP. It comes with titanium rods too. It's a dry sump engine but is quite easy to convert to a wet sump if you want to keep the conversion simple. The LS7 is arguably the pinnacle of pushrod engine development.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by 1973 Pantera:
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Define "prudent"?

As 'Satan' is thrown into the pit he remarks, "you have no dominion over me". I didn't write the scenario but I've known some people that maybe...fit?



The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines Prudent as "having or showing careful good judgment".

Sure that's it, they're 'prudent'. Wink
davidnunndavidnunnMember
A prudent 427 Cobra owner would keep his car 100% original. The same applies to Bizzarini Strada and 1963 'Vette owners. With few exceptions, Panteras will always be the most valuable and the most collectible unmodified, so the prudent owner argument holds true for us too. That being said, I don't understand why some Pantera owners modify their cars extensively but take such offense at the suggestion of installing a GM crate engine. It seems a tad hypocritical. If you're a Ford fan and bought a Pantera because it has a Ford engine, you won't agree but there is no right or wrong once you start modifying a car. It's all a matter of personal taste and opinion.

Didn't DeTomaso glue cast "DeTomaso" logos on his Ford valve covers? It seems that DeTomaso was not as proud to have Ford engines in his cars as some Pantera owners are!
Last edited by davidnunn
H hockeydudeMember
Its your car, and your decision. Don't let anyone else sway it.

I'm a bit behind the curve with the new LT series from GM, do you know the size of the block? There are a few of us who have done engine swaps and can provide some guidance, I've swapped an LS7, Chris/Scott have multiple swaps under their belt, and their are other lurkers who've done swaps who could help. We can give you some heads up for what you might need to expect.

Another benefit of the LSX series, is the massive aftermarket for them. For example, you have a large range of exotic intakes to choose from, and if you do it right, very few will know what you're running until you tell them Cool

Feel free to PM if you'd like to chat.

Dave
G gtpoweredMember
While I would think the largest resale audience would be if you leave it with a Ford small block in it, there is no guarantee that it would be worth more money than one with a Chevy motor. It is your car, and your decision.


If this blog is correct, the highest selling price for a Ford era Pantera was paid for one that had a Chevy LS engine in it.

http://ringbrothers.com/blog/BarrettJackson2015/

On a technical note, I discussed with both Les Gray and Roy Butfoy about running supercharged horsepower in the 600-650 range thru the ZF and neither were too concerned. Les said the most likely failure would be in the higher gear. I cannot remember if he said 4th or 5th gear. Drag racing and speed shifting has broken ZFs in the past.
panteraturbopanteraturboMember
My car was never "original" since I have owned it so I have never felt the burden of keeping it that way. That being said if the definition of prudent is "having or showing careful good judgment" then I would argue that modifying a car that I have purchased not for resale but for my own enjoyment by installing a powerplant that does EVERYTHING better seems pretty prudent. As for the OP's question I think it would make an excellent powerplant. The new GM ecu's are fairly easily reprogrammed so it leaves some on the table for even more fun. The electronic throttle also makes low speed driving a pleasure. I dont think you would have any regrets from a performance standpoint.
panteraturbopanteraturboMember
quote:
Originally posted by GTPowered:
While I would think the largest resale audience would be if you leave it with a Ford small block in it, there is no guarantee that it would be worth more money than one with a Chevy motor. It is your car, and your decision.


If this blog is correct, the highest selling price for a Ford era Pantera was paid for one that had a Chevy LS engine in it.

http://ringbrothers.com/blog/BarrettJackson2015/

On a technical note, I discussed with both Les Gray and Roy Butfoy about running supercharged horsepower in the 600-650 range thru the ZF and neither were too concerned. Les said the most likely failure would be in the higher gear. I cannot remember if he said 4th or 5th gear. Drag racing and speed shifting has broken ZFs in the past.


I can personally attest that my car at the peak of its power production was making 811 HP to the tire. I took it drag racing three times and autocrossing once. I recently sold it and sent it to Pantera Performance for repair. Total repair cost was $5000. This was a trans that had NO driveability issues. Dennis informed me that almost all of the damage was from excessive torque. The ZF's are good but they are not unbreakable by any means. Funny thing is that the damaged components were not the ones under load when drag racing. Go figure.
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