...ALL Production of Machined Stainless Steel Parts, has been Halted Indefinitely!
I'am Bored with the Debate and No Longer in the Mood!
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Beautiful work Marlin!!! Is there any added safety feature to your decklid pins to ensure they can't fall out? Such as a hole drilled through the very end for a small cotter pin. Or is the press-fit sufficient?
Also, put me down for a set of your bump steer spacers. Paypal on the way!
Also, put me down for a set of your bump steer spacers. Paypal on the way!
quote:5. Clutch Slave 'Banjo' Fitting Pivot PIN (Pin ONLY)* Polished Finish. $45.00
Install a Greasable Zerk Fitting, Add $15.00 Pin Includes (2) New 'E' Clips. The Grease Fitting may Stop THAT Squeak You could Never Find! Will certainly keep the Pivot from wearing out as Fast.
Would love to see a picture of this one as I have no idea what this is, what it's supposed to do, or how it's installed. Maybe if I went out and studied my clutch slave it might come to me. But a pic would be great!
Thanks!
Garth
My '71 came equipped with nails as the OEM hinge pin and they never came out (by them selves)!
A few months ago I was thinking about how ratty they looked and what I could do about it. My thought, then and now, was to get a long stainless bolt of an appropriate size and, if needed, drill the hinges out to some appropriate size larger. I didn't take any measurements but knew the pins were close to 1/4", probably metric, so about 6mm.
So, down to the shop with my digital caliper to take some measurements. My pin measured 5.93 mm (0.233"). The hole in the hinge was a slight interference fit with a C Drill (6.13 mm/ 0.241") and a loose fit with a B drill (6.04/0.237). The nominal size of the shank of a 6mm bolt is, guess what, 6.00 mm. But the reality is that they are slightly smaller. I don't have one to measure but the 8mm bolts measure about 7.90 mm and 6mm are probably proportionately smaller so maybe 5.92-3, what the (metric?) nail measured.
So if they are and you are happy with the way things fit, just get a metric 6mm stainless bolt with the appropriate shank length and have at it, it should work fine. Be sure to make the tip into a rounded point so that it is easier to install.
Drilling out to 1/4" may be another option. This, of course, would require removal of the decklid and the body side of the hinges. Be sure that you drill some alignment holes, 3 are suggested, 1/8" or so in dia, so you can get the hinge back to it's original position. My car is in that state now so it's not a problem.
A 1/4 bolt shank measures about 0.245-6 while the hole should be close to 0.250. Drilling the lid side of the hinge may present some problems as it looks like the clearance between a drill coming from the outside edge and the lip is pretty close (I don't have a rod of the proper diameter and length to measure accurately). Protecting the lip would be important in case of wobbles or slips! You could drill from the inside direction, possibly, with a 1/4 hex flex drive and matching 1/4 drill. Harbor Freight sells a 1/16" to 1/4" hex drive drill bit set (for not much $$) which I find very useful for rapidly changing drill bit sizes. With a flex drive one would have to go slowly (low pressure but maybe at a high speed) as drilling holes that size that are only slightly different in size tends to result in sudden catching and with a flex drive things might get out of hand. An option might be to use a socket wrench 1/4" U joint drive with a long extension to the socket/drill. With this approach you'd probably want to clamp a guide(s?) carefully to the deck lid to keep things aligned. You might be able to do it by hand using a socket wrench or chuck it up in your variable speed drill.
For me, I'm going to explore the 6mm approach before thinking anymore about drilling things out. After all, the 6mm nail worked fine for 44 years
The ideal donor bold bolt would be a SS round head hex but a socket head would be fine. The width of the hinge is 80mm so ideally the bolt would have at least 70mm of unthreaded shank. Looking around briefly on the net, such may be hard to find at least in the us, in small (or large?) quantities. An alternative might be stainless tubing or rod to which a screw head would be threaded to either or both ends. I assume it would be exactly 6mm. Given that the B drill bit at 6.04mm was a loose (but not too loose) fit this might be just the ticket. A quick search on amazon came up with this rod (200mm for 8.22) but I didn't find any tubing. I'll search a bit more later.
A few months ago I was thinking about how ratty they looked and what I could do about it. My thought, then and now, was to get a long stainless bolt of an appropriate size and, if needed, drill the hinges out to some appropriate size larger. I didn't take any measurements but knew the pins were close to 1/4", probably metric, so about 6mm.
So, down to the shop with my digital caliper to take some measurements. My pin measured 5.93 mm (0.233"). The hole in the hinge was a slight interference fit with a C Drill (6.13 mm/ 0.241") and a loose fit with a B drill (6.04/0.237). The nominal size of the shank of a 6mm bolt is, guess what, 6.00 mm. But the reality is that they are slightly smaller. I don't have one to measure but the 8mm bolts measure about 7.90 mm and 6mm are probably proportionately smaller so maybe 5.92-3, what the (metric?) nail measured.
So if they are and you are happy with the way things fit, just get a metric 6mm stainless bolt with the appropriate shank length and have at it, it should work fine. Be sure to make the tip into a rounded point so that it is easier to install.
Drilling out to 1/4" may be another option. This, of course, would require removal of the decklid and the body side of the hinges. Be sure that you drill some alignment holes, 3 are suggested, 1/8" or so in dia, so you can get the hinge back to it's original position. My car is in that state now so it's not a problem.
A 1/4 bolt shank measures about 0.245-6 while the hole should be close to 0.250. Drilling the lid side of the hinge may present some problems as it looks like the clearance between a drill coming from the outside edge and the lip is pretty close (I don't have a rod of the proper diameter and length to measure accurately). Protecting the lip would be important in case of wobbles or slips! You could drill from the inside direction, possibly, with a 1/4 hex flex drive and matching 1/4 drill. Harbor Freight sells a 1/16" to 1/4" hex drive drill bit set (for not much $$) which I find very useful for rapidly changing drill bit sizes. With a flex drive one would have to go slowly (low pressure but maybe at a high speed) as drilling holes that size that are only slightly different in size tends to result in sudden catching and with a flex drive things might get out of hand. An option might be to use a socket wrench 1/4" U joint drive with a long extension to the socket/drill. With this approach you'd probably want to clamp a guide(s?) carefully to the deck lid to keep things aligned. You might be able to do it by hand using a socket wrench or chuck it up in your variable speed drill.
For me, I'm going to explore the 6mm approach before thinking anymore about drilling things out. After all, the 6mm nail worked fine for 44 years
The ideal donor bold bolt would be a SS round head hex but a socket head would be fine. The width of the hinge is 80mm so ideally the bolt would have at least 70mm of unthreaded shank. Looking around briefly on the net, such may be hard to find at least in the us, in small (or large?) quantities. An alternative might be stainless tubing or rod to which a screw head would be threaded to either or both ends. I assume it would be exactly 6mm. Given that the B drill bit at 6.04mm was a loose (but not too loose) fit this might be just the ticket. A quick search on amazon came up with this rod (200mm for 8.22) but I didn't find any tubing. I'll search a bit more later.
Marlin -
Could you please post up a picture of the "Bump Steer Spacers" - do these go on the steering rack mounts or on the tie rod ends.
Thanks -
Rocky
Could you please post up a picture of the "Bump Steer Spacers" - do these go on the steering rack mounts or on the tie rod ends.
Thanks -
Rocky
It's the Engineer in me I guess. Once I got into it, I couldn't stop 
Anyway, maybe your car had been modified. I'm the origional owner and it's an early '71 (#1549). I was pretty sure of my measurements being within +/- 0.001" (but the "nail" and the bolts I measured weren't really round to this level). So I decided to find out if I could drive the shank of a std 1/4" bolt into the body side hinge. I cut off the threads and tapered the end of a 1/4" hex head machine screw (~0.245"). I was able to pound it into one side about 3/8" with some difficulty. I then took a wrench and tried to twist it. It turned but it took significant effort. Not exactly how you want a hinge to work!
I then took the stock pin and pounded the bolt out. It took quite a few hard walks. The bolt shot to the floor (which is a bit of a mess in that area) and there, next to it was a hinge pin from our old house door. Imagine my surprise when I measured it: 0.233" and ~3.5" long and it fit my car's hinge perfectly. It was from our remodel and about 40 years old. So I knocked one of the pins out of our new doors: same size! One nice thing about the door hinge pins is they have a slightly raised section near the head that taps nice and snugly into my hinge.
I checked the Home Depot website and they have stainless 3/5" hinges for $9.47. Satin nickel and other flavors are less than 1/2 that. And, if you like, "3-1/2 in. Satin Brass Steel Door Hinge Pin (3 per Pack)" for $1.37 shipped free to the store!
I haven't decided yet if I'm going to splurge for the SS hinges or get the $1.37 3 pack and paint the heads black Out of curiosity I looked what the list price of the stock hinge is a Pantera's by Wilkinson. It's $17.90. We are entering Ferrari territory I Think!
Anyway, maybe your car had been modified. I'm the origional owner and it's an early '71 (#1549). I was pretty sure of my measurements being within +/- 0.001" (but the "nail" and the bolts I measured weren't really round to this level). So I decided to find out if I could drive the shank of a std 1/4" bolt into the body side hinge. I cut off the threads and tapered the end of a 1/4" hex head machine screw (~0.245"). I was able to pound it into one side about 3/8" with some difficulty. I then took a wrench and tried to twist it. It turned but it took significant effort. Not exactly how you want a hinge to work! I then took the stock pin and pounded the bolt out. It took quite a few hard walks. The bolt shot to the floor (which is a bit of a mess in that area) and there, next to it was a hinge pin from our old house door. Imagine my surprise when I measured it: 0.233" and ~3.5" long and it fit my car's hinge perfectly. It was from our remodel and about 40 years old. So I knocked one of the pins out of our new doors: same size! One nice thing about the door hinge pins is they have a slightly raised section near the head that taps nice and snugly into my hinge.
I checked the Home Depot website and they have stainless 3/5" hinges for $9.47. Satin nickel and other flavors are less than 1/2 that. And, if you like, "3-1/2 in. Satin Brass Steel Door Hinge Pin (3 per Pack)" for $1.37 shipped free to the store!
I haven't decided yet if I'm going to splurge for the SS hinges or get the $1.37 3 pack and paint the heads black
Out of curiosity I looked what the list price of the stock hinge is a Pantera's by Wilkinson. It's $17.90. We are entering Ferrari territory I Think!
Is there any thing that secures the pin in the hinge other that the interferance fit?
is the center section ID greater than the ID of the two ends (so that the tight fit is in the end sections to retain the pin and the center section has a clearance to allow rotation?
is the center section ID greater than the ID of the two ends (so that the tight fit is in the end sections to retain the pin and the center section has a clearance to allow rotation?
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quote:Originally posted by JFB #05177:
Is there any thing that secures the pin in the hinge other that the interferance fit?
is the center section ID greater than the ID of the two ends (so that the tight fit is in the end sections to retain the pin and the center section has a clearance to allow rotation?
No, as far as I can tell the center section is the same diameter as the ends and there was no "interference fit" of my "nail" hinge pins. That doesn't seem to be a problem as my loose pins have never moved out on their own.
Actually the pins may not be nails. I searched some and couldn't find any document that showed metric nail diameters and lengths. The US nails, and probably Metric nails, that are 3.5" long are only about 0.2" dia. Nails are made from std wire gauges and there is a gauge (3.5) that is the same diameter, 0.233". However, the hinge pins on our home doors do have a short section of slightly larger diameter (0.251") that provides a light interference fit. If you've ever punched the hinge pins out of a door you know about what it feels like. If you decide to make your own new pins using the home door pins you will have to shorten them a bit. When you do that you'll want to file or grind a fairly good point on the end. Alternatively, you could "countersink" the body side of the hinge hole. Either way will help dramatically when you put your deck lid back on, especially if you are doing it yourself: lining up the two hinge parts precisely enough to push a blunt pin in can be really difficult. Another nice touch might be to leave the pin long enough and thread it so you could put an acorn nut on the end.
Also, I'd like to apologize to Marlin Jack for hijacking this thread a bit and, perhaps, diverting some potential customers from his very nice looking SS pins. That was not my intention and I just got carried away. I probably should have started my own thread on "How to make your own stainless rear deck hinge pins".
Simpatico is what I would say here. We are all playing together nicely?
Marlin? How tough are your pins going to be to remove?
When working on an engine it is often much easier to remove the entire decklid. In fact I actually have a special hoist on the garage ceiling to do this easier and by myself.
I thought that a clevis pin with finger pull ring and tension ball in stainless would be a better way to go then the old thought of just a pin held in by friction? Makes it faster to pull the pin?
With open velocity stacks I can't take a chance of things falling off of the car into one of the stacks, including a deck lid hinge pin? Even with screens. I don't want a durability test on the screens to see what mass they can support with the throttles wide open?
What do you think?
...am I being disruptive and have to go see Ms.Kreig in the Principles Office AGAIN? No one would write me a note to get out of there last time.
Marlin? How tough are your pins going to be to remove?
When working on an engine it is often much easier to remove the entire decklid. In fact I actually have a special hoist on the garage ceiling to do this easier and by myself.
I thought that a clevis pin with finger pull ring and tension ball in stainless would be a better way to go then the old thought of just a pin held in by friction? Makes it faster to pull the pin?
With open velocity stacks I can't take a chance of things falling off of the car into one of the stacks, including a deck lid hinge pin? Even with screens. I don't want a durability test on the screens to see what mass they can support with the throttles wide open?
What do you think?
...am I being disruptive and have to go see Ms.Kreig in the Principles Office AGAIN? No one would write me a note to get out of there last time.
Yup. Exactly. I don't think that they exist in stainless though?
I'm not sure they would work out of the box. I suspect that the hinge assembly might need to have a reamer run through it?
I'd be willin' if the results were chillin'.
-sent to you from the Principle's Office- (I didn't wait. I know I'm getting sent there anyway and wanted to get the best seat)
Maybe the Professor will think about this after he stops yellin'? He'll know where to find me?
I'm not sure they would work out of the box. I suspect that the hinge assembly might need to have a reamer run through it?
I'd be willin' if the results were chillin'.
-sent to you from the Principle's Office- (I didn't wait. I know I'm getting sent there anyway and wanted to get the best seat)
Maybe the Professor will think about this after he stops yellin'? He'll know where to find me?
http://www.summitracing.com/pa...ms302-07ss/overview/
Something like this one.
I hesitate to ream out the hinges to other than 6mm. There is no going back if it
doesn't work out?
I mic'd the bolts. "Standard" hardware type bolts are typically about .006-.007" smaller than the hole they are specified for.
High quality, tight tolerance bolts like ARP are about .0025-.0030 clearances.
That considered, and testing the fit, I would say even the ARP are a little loose for my taste.
Something like this one.
I hesitate to ream out the hinges to other than 6mm. There is no going back if it
doesn't work out?
I mic'd the bolts. "Standard" hardware type bolts are typically about .006-.007" smaller than the hole they are specified for.
High quality, tight tolerance bolts like ARP are about .0025-.0030 clearances.
That considered, and testing the fit, I would say even the ARP are a little loose for my taste.
quote:Originally posted by Marlin Jack:
...The Stainless Pins won't be any harder to Remove. I would first, push 'In' the extended tip, to get it started-Out, then 'Drive' them out with a thinner rod. A 'Nail' would work.
I would 'Start' Both sides-hinges, Say, half-way out, then (in my case I had two people, on each side, holding the decklid from falling) Then I would "Pull the Pins!".
I will add, that the 1/4 Inch measurement of the Hinge Bores of 'My' '74 L Pantera, may be different from Earlier Models.
I better add a Disclaimer to the post!
I was thinking of adding a 'Pull-Ring' to the Head of the pin, like a 'Grenade Pin', but then, again, the 'Eye-Sore' factor. And you would have to 'Drive' the Pin out, Anyway.
Good Suggestion! But Your Right! Loose Enough to Pull-Out with a Ring, is Just TOO LOOSE!
Doug! you can leave the Principals' Office Now. Be Careful walking home Alone!
On the way home, do you think that 18 year old model will try to molest me...please... pretty please?
Is this her?
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Man, that must be an old photo. Rotary dial phone booths have been extinct for a loooong time.
Nice cobra ! The other is too high maintenance for me.
Doug M
Nice cobra ! The other is too high maintenance for me.
Doug M
Is that Honey West and her AC Cobra?
I think she and Doug dated (long distance, of course). I always saw her driving around Griffiths Park.
Rocky
I think she and Doug dated (long distance, of course). I always saw her driving around Griffiths Park.
Rocky
quote:When working on an engine it is often much easier to remove the entire decklid.
True! But NEVER remove the decklid by pounding out the hinge pins. Every time you remove and reinstall your hinge pins you loosen the interference fit - more than one Pantera has suffered this fate and had the rear decklid ripped off at speed on the highway!
Simply remove the 3 bolts on each hinge where it mounts under the rear roof of the car, so the hinges are removed from the car with the decklid. When putting the decklid back on, merely set it in place, start each bolt finger tight (loose), then shift the decklid until you're satisfied with the gaps all the way around and at the rear, then tighten the hinge bolts to the car. Done! Perfectly aligned.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
Man, that must be an old photo. Rotary dial phone booths have been extinct for a loooong time.
Nice cobra ! The other is too high maintenance for me.
Doug M
Bill and Bud Jones CSX 31xx 427 street car. Pic is about '83 or '84?
She was a college student working her way through school.
The "Honey West Cobra" driven by Anne Francis in the tv show, was a '65 289, white, auto trans.
No. I never dated Anne. Never fixed her plumbing either.
She was pretty tall. 5-10 I think. She could wear heels with me and still not be taller.
Wifey doesn't like to hear about these things. She is very jealous.
quote:Wifey doesn't like to hear about these things. She is very jealous.
Well, as you recall, one of Honey's greatest episodes was:
"A Matter of Wife and Death"!
Jebus.... what a choice!
You know what they say about marriage:
"It's not a word - it's a sentence!"
Marlin - Sorry for this thread getting off track. If you like, I can move this post to "PanteraDoug's Thread" in the non-technical area.
No one posts there anymore. It's lonely in there.
quote:Originally posted by Rocky:quote:Wifey doesn't like to hear about these things. She is very jealous.
Well, as you recall, one of Honey's greatest episodes was:
"A Matter of Wife and Death"!
Jebus.... what a choice!
You know what they say about marriage:
"It's not a word - it's a sentence!"
Well...two things 1) I picked her (wifey) so what's she worried about 2) reminds me of an "Abbott & Costello" joke.
-"Hey Louie, do you know what a husband is?"
- "Sure. That's a sweetheart in which the nerve has been killed?"
quote:True! But NEVER remove the decklid by pounding out the hinge pins. Every time you remove and reinstall your hinge pins you loosen the interference fit - more than one Pantera has suffered this fate and had the rear decklid ripped off at speed on the highway!
???
Fifteen years in the 'Family" and this is the first time I've heard this caution.
Considering how much easier deck lid removal is with just removing the pins, I'll continue with that method. Yup, living on the edge......
Just as I always check wheel lug nut torque prior to long drives and check/tighten all under-car hose clamps every time it is up on jack stands, I'll just check the pins for movement now and then. Much less effort than wrestling with the hinges and their bolts.
Larry
Marlin, How much do the Anti Bumpsteer Spacers improve the steering? Is an alignment needed after instalation? What size are the longer bolts that are needed?
quote:Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:quote:True! But NEVER remove the decklid by pounding out the hinge pins. Every time you remove and reinstall your hinge pins you loosen the interference fit - more than one Pantera has suffered this fate and had the rear decklid ripped off at speed on the highway!
???
Fifteen years in the 'Family" and this is the first time I've heard this caution.
Considering how much easier deck lid removal is with just removing the pins, I'll continue with that method. Yup, living on the edge......
Just as I always check wheel lug nut torque prior to long drives and check/tighten all under-car hose clamps every time it is up on jack stands, I'll just check the pins for movement now and then. Much less effort than wrestling with the hinges and their bolts.
Larry
The pins are not really easy to get at with the decklid on the car. The hinge that bolts to the roof curves up, unless I have it on backwards (which is possible) and that puts the pin location in the rain gutter.
It's easier to unbolt that part of the hinge to get the deck off.
quote:Originally posted by Marlin Jack:quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:quote:Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:quote:True! But NEVER remove the decklid by pounding out the hinge pins. Every time you remove and reinstall your hinge pins you loosen the interference fit - more than one Pantera has suffered this fate and had the rear decklid ripped off at speed on the highway!
???
Fifteen years in the 'Family" and this is the first time I've heard this caution.
Considering how much easier deck lid removal is with just removing the pins, I'll continue with that method. Yup, living on the edge......
Just as I always check wheel lug nut torque prior to long drives and check/tighten all under-car hose clamps every time it is up on jack stands, I'll just check the pins for movement now and then. Much less effort than wrestling with the hinges and their bolts.
Larry
The pins are not really easy to get at with the decklid on the car. The hinge that bolts to the roof curves up, unless I have it on backwards (which is possible) and that puts the pin location in the rain gutter.
It's easier to unbolt that part of the hinge to get the deck off.
...Yes! Your Hinges are Correct!! The Pins ARE In the Rain Gutter! I never had any problem with it! Lean in there and Pull The Pins, Straight Out. There's Just Enough Room! Ofcourse if you want your life to remain Easy, just leave everything the way It Is!
"We don't do nuthin'...easy!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJGoNeM3WzY