Matt, I'm laughing at myself right now. You said in 2 sentences what has taken me several very long posts!
Here's one for you Matt, your friend on the PIBB, George
Coz, I might do that some day. I don't know what others think but I like Halls stuff and have bought a bunch of it over the years. I really like Gary and Bev. I think they are great folks.
Hi Kevin:
I wouldn't put a Windsor engine in a Pantera for the same reason I wouldn't do a Chevy V8 conversion on an XKE.
Matt Merritt
#2171
I wouldn't put a Windsor engine in a Pantera for the same reason I wouldn't do a Chevy V8 conversion on an XKE.
Matt Merritt
#2171
Matt, what do you think of the 400? I kind of feel the same way which is why I wanted to go with the 400. It is still the same series of block, kind of a "Super Clevland".
Gary
Gary
Hi Gary:
Here's where I start looking for George...
MM
Here's where I start looking for George...
MM
So, you must need a long winded, social philosopher, bag of hot air response for Gary! I'm your man! LOL....
Guys, if you see moderator Mark coming, run and hide. I think we've hijacked this topic. It was supposed to be about the mod motor! LOL...
your "touchy-feely" friend on the PIBB, George
Guys, if you see moderator Mark coming, run and hide. I think we've hijacked this topic. It was supposed to be about the mod motor! LOL...
your "touchy-feely" friend on the PIBB, George
Ah, we can start our own topic. It is still in the relm of Modular opinions. George, I forgot, why were you going to talk me out of the 400?
Best reguards,
Gary
Best reguards,
Gary
It is still interesting to see what other people's opinions are. Actually, my dad has an XKE with a V12. I would never do that. I think the V12 goes in the XKE and is a wwork of art. I would never want to work on a V12 unless that was my ONLY car and I never planned on working on another car. That's why I don't have a Jag. I like them, I am just not going to work on them, nor would I put a V8 in it. That being said, it weighs a couple hundred lbs less and is by far more powerful!
Gary
Gary
The 351C is not the only engine that came stock in a Pantera. The very last of the GT5-S's came with a 351W in them (I believe they were sourced from a truck).
And of course, we all know that the Si's came with fuel injected 5.0L Mustang motors in them.
Michael
And of course, we all know that the Si's came with fuel injected 5.0L Mustang motors in them.
Michael
Gary,
the 400 was not a popular "hot rod" engine when I was doing that sort of thing. Even though almost every part from a Cleveland interchanges. Strange huh? But that was my reasoning, you hop up Clevelands, not 400s. It was a mind set I acquired from the 70s & 80s. From my point of view you were thinking "out of the box" to choose the 400 for your Pantera, and I applaud that. Currently, the 393/427 Windsors, the 4.6 mod motors and the occaisional 385 series engine are the popular transplant engines for Panteras. But, like I wrote a moment ago, almost ever part of the Cleveland interchanges with the 400. What an inexpensive way to "stroke" you 351C. Buy a 400 at the wrecking yard, rebuild the short block, bolt on your Cleveland heads, cam, intake (with spacers), oil pan, oil pump, flywheel, balancer, distributor, water pump. And if you want to stroke a 400, 351W cranks drop straight in. Now all you need to contend with are the bell housing, motor mounts & exhaust, which are no more difficult than the 385 conversion. and if a person finds an fmx block, even the bellhousing is the same!
Now, the flip side of the coin, in general, the closer to stock a Pantera is, the more desireable it is to many buyers. And "if" the Pantera ever becomes popular with collectors and starts climbing in value, then the stock cars will climb in value faster. Many people feel like Matt, a Jag engine belongs in a Jag, a Ferrari motor belongs in a Ferrari, and a Cleveland belongs in the Pantera. Its part of the character of the car.
But one of the major differences between a Pantera & other classic Italian sports cars, modifying Panteras is OK within our family of owners. Do so with another marque and you'd be ostracized. With a Pantera, everyone embraces your modifications with comments like "cool", "good job", perhaps even "bitchen". The concourse car & the modified car can sit comfortably next to one another at a show. As long as we continue to accept one another this way, we will continue to have the "best" family of owners among the various marques, my personal opinion, of course.
We also tend to endlessly debate these topics on the PIBB! LOL
Matt, was that enough hot air for you?
your venerable friend on the PIBB, George
the 400 was not a popular "hot rod" engine when I was doing that sort of thing. Even though almost every part from a Cleveland interchanges. Strange huh? But that was my reasoning, you hop up Clevelands, not 400s. It was a mind set I acquired from the 70s & 80s. From my point of view you were thinking "out of the box" to choose the 400 for your Pantera, and I applaud that. Currently, the 393/427 Windsors, the 4.6 mod motors and the occaisional 385 series engine are the popular transplant engines for Panteras. But, like I wrote a moment ago, almost ever part of the Cleveland interchanges with the 400. What an inexpensive way to "stroke" you 351C. Buy a 400 at the wrecking yard, rebuild the short block, bolt on your Cleveland heads, cam, intake (with spacers), oil pan, oil pump, flywheel, balancer, distributor, water pump. And if you want to stroke a 400, 351W cranks drop straight in. Now all you need to contend with are the bell housing, motor mounts & exhaust, which are no more difficult than the 385 conversion. and if a person finds an fmx block, even the bellhousing is the same!
Now, the flip side of the coin, in general, the closer to stock a Pantera is, the more desireable it is to many buyers. And "if" the Pantera ever becomes popular with collectors and starts climbing in value, then the stock cars will climb in value faster. Many people feel like Matt, a Jag engine belongs in a Jag, a Ferrari motor belongs in a Ferrari, and a Cleveland belongs in the Pantera. Its part of the character of the car.
But one of the major differences between a Pantera & other classic Italian sports cars, modifying Panteras is OK within our family of owners. Do so with another marque and you'd be ostracized. With a Pantera, everyone embraces your modifications with comments like "cool", "good job", perhaps even "bitchen". The concourse car & the modified car can sit comfortably next to one another at a show. As long as we continue to accept one another this way, we will continue to have the "best" family of owners among the various marques, my personal opinion, of course.
We also tend to endlessly debate these topics on the PIBB! LOL
Matt, was that enough hot air for you?
your venerable friend on the PIBB, George
quote:
We also tend to endlessly debate these topics on the PIBB! LOL
That's fun though. The nice thing is I will have 2 engines when done. I will always be able to put the Cleveland back in. I will probably get the cleveland set up as a "swap engine" should I have a problem with this one.
George, I have always thought the 400 would have been a more popular "hop up" engine if it had fit between the shock towers in a Mustang!
Gary
Gary,
I look forward to your completed 400 project. I can't wait to see how it looks in the engine bay, and how it performs.
Michael
I look forward to your completed 400 project. I can't wait to see how it looks in the engine bay, and how it performs.
Michael
quote:Originally posted by george pence:
But one of the major differences between a Pantera & other classic Italian sports cars, modifying Panteras is OK within our family of owners. Do so with another marque and you'd be ostracized. With a Pantera, everyone embraces your modifications with comments like "cool", "good job", perhaps even "bitchen". The concourse car & the modified car can sit comfortably next to one another at a show. As long as we continue to accept one another this way, we will continue to have the "best" family of owners among the various marques, my personal opinion, of course.
your venerable friend on the PIBB, George
Well said. And right on target.
quote:Originally posted by Cyboman:
Gary,
I look forward to your completed 400 project. I can't wait to see how it looks in the engine bay, and how it performs.
Michael
Thanks Me too. I have a couple projects going on right now. When the engine gets here it will be installed. At a latter date, when I am ahead of some of my other projects, I am going to start a full resto on either this one (#1905) or the other one(#1280). Not sure yet. Before I start the restoration I need to finish the mgb, and do some engine work to the TA.
Gary
can you say "gear head"?
George
George
quote:Originally posted by Matt_M:
Hi Kevin:
I wouldn't put a Windsor engine in a Pantera for the same reason I wouldn't do a Chevy V8 conversion on an XKE.
Matt Merritt
#2171
Matt,
That analogy sucks. Sorry
Windsors and Cleves are in the same family. Jaguar and Chebby engines aren't.
Though an argument can be said that Ford and Jag engines are now in the same family since Ford own Jaguar!
So a Ford V8 conversion on an XKE would be "bitchen"!!
Kevin
What could have been a good thread has turned into nothing more than a session for everyone to pat each others on the back. Nothing technical here that's for sure....
pantera 2023,
Well then it looks like it was a bust.
Michael
Well then it looks like it was a bust.
Michael
Nate,
If you go back and reread the thread, you'll find there was technical info supplied, alot of it by you! There were also links posted to find more information from people who specialize in Mod motors.
Out of all the Panteras, only a relative few have Mod motor conversions, so we are not the experts to provide the technical depth you were hoping to see.
Since you're doing a Mod motor build-up, you may be on the forefront of this knowledge when you're done. You may become the Mod motor go to guy on the PIBB!
Michael
If you go back and reread the thread, you'll find there was technical info supplied, alot of it by you! There were also links posted to find more information from people who specialize in Mod motors.
Out of all the Panteras, only a relative few have Mod motor conversions, so we are not the experts to provide the technical depth you were hoping to see.
Since you're doing a Mod motor build-up, you may be on the forefront of this knowledge when you're done. You may become the Mod motor go to guy on the PIBB!
Michael
For those of you who really want Ford mod-motor technical advice, my suggestion is to post some topics on those discussion boards.
I post on a few of the boards where I've met some of the moderators. The sites listed below have people in contact with NHRA, Livernois Motorsports, Ford SVT, etc. All very knowledgeable in the mod-motor field. Just check out some of the project cars and ask about them.
=>www.stangnet.com
=>www.stangpro.com
=>the cobra corral site- dont remember the site addy off hand.
I post on a few of the boards where I've met some of the moderators. The sites listed below have people in contact with NHRA, Livernois Motorsports, Ford SVT, etc. All very knowledgeable in the mod-motor field. Just check out some of the project cars and ask about them.
=>www.stangnet.com
=>www.stangpro.com
=>the cobra corral site- dont remember the site addy off hand.