New Heavy Duty 351C Block, by Tod Buttermore

Another update from Tod

Quote: This is the block that was pictured in an earlier post. It has some casting issues. My friend Tom Hoover pulled the distributor out of a 1970 Cleveland that was in a wrecked car. He has had it for quite a while. Only has about 10k miles on it. We talked about using its parts to build this block up stock and see how it goes.

The issues I ran into were:

1. Casting was somehow made .100 too thick. I adjusted machining to make it only .080 heavy. Because the casting is too thick the distributor pocket is machined in deeper than designed.

2. I screwed up and forgot the oil galley boss metal in the valley, so you can see the weld put in before machining. It looks bad but doesn't leak. The pattern has been modified, and is ready for new castings.

3. Because I changed a drill diameter and angle, I nicked the passenger waterjacket when I drilled the front oil passage from the front main to the main oil galley. Block fill will fix it for our test build. This will not be an issue from here out. I added stock to the corner that was nicked.

4. I forgot to put the distributor hold down bolt boss in the cross-over water passage core box. What an idiot!!! I have already altered that. This block will be welded and fixed by hand. Pretty easy fix.

If anyone sees anything that raises red flags let me know. I'm anxious to get blocks to the guys waiting patiently for their product. The iron guys are starting to email me.

BTW splayed caps will be the norm in production.

Sorry for taking so long.

Tod

Very nice looking piece. When you undertake a project like this there are bound to be some issues. Thats what the test block is for. I say great job Tod. There are going to be some very happy individuals out there. I look forward to seeing these in some Panteras in the near future.

Blaine

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have had cores at the foundry for at least 2 weeks now. My only(non-Cleveland) customer has had a quote owed to him from the same foundry for at least a month. A friend of mine is in the process of setting up a foundry. I was at the new facility yesterday. He thinks he is 3-4 weeks away from pouring metal. If I have to wait that much longer where I am I will have him pour my block. Needless to say, he will be doing my work anyway. I can't even get a return call from Quaker City Castings. When I am looking at sending hundereds of thousands of dollars of work somewhere, I expect returned calls.

In short, I am still being held up by other people. This is why I used to have the whole shabang when I was in Indianapolis.

Tod

Thanks for the update. I think that I understand how he feels.

Those things are beautiful.

Let me ask this now, are the main webs on Todd's block thicker like the "Nascar" blocks? Looking at the pictures it's hard to tell.

The latest update from Tod as of 12/13/08:

quote:

Since I have been waiting for 2 months to get a casting from Quaker City Castings, which caused me to miss having one displayed in Barry Rabotnik's booth at PRI, I am going to use the cores to cast an iron block. My friend is pouring iron now and is working on the aluminum furnace setup. There is no sense letting the cores sit any longer when I can at least make an iron block with the new revisions. I am truly sorry for the delay on the aluminum side of this. I never saw this coming.

Fortunately, I have been able to feed myself by doing some work for Snyder's Antique Auto. While forced to wait on castings I have been developing new parts for him and fixturing up to machine sveral others. I plan to add a Model A block to the mix sometime next year, after I get the C block up and running.

Times are getting tough and I will do my best to offer my Cleveland at the best price I can for you loyal supporters. You can't really know how much I appreciate the patience, support, and concern for my health that you have shown to a guy you don't even know. (BTW, I feel terrible but at least I'm alive and can work everyday until I hit the wall.)

Oh yeah, almost forgot. At thanksgiving my brother-in-law asked what I was going to do with the first sample that had some flaws in the casting. A friend was thinking about building it, but my brother-in-law said he wouldn't think about it, he would do it. So...he now is in the process of fixing the block and is going to put it in a Cobra kit he bought a couple of years ago. When he came to the shop to get it he looked like a kid in a candy store. He never stopped smiling.

Tod

The latest update from Tod as of 1/13/09

quote:

Due to the delay of getting into production I am going to reduce the price of the first 15 aluminum blocks to $2300.00.

I understand that the economy is bad and I will do what I can to help Cleveland enthusiasts. Three individuals have had to cancel their aluminum block orders due to the long wait and other factors that have developed in the mean time. I have sent their money back as they requested. This allows those of you who I told to hold your money to step into the 3 open spots. If I have to order more sleeves to expand the first run to 20-25, I will do it.

I am as anxious as any of you to get this project up and running. It is my goal to start producing blocks soon so that the drag racers on the Cleveland Forum can have a block for the new season.

Tod

They do look good
Very tempting !!

Those blocks look great. Wish the economy was better right now also. I would love to have one of the aluminum blocks. So when is Tod going to design and cast his own head for the Cleveland? I know...let him get the block done first.

Wow $2300 is a steal, compare to the cost of a Fontana or Dart block. With all the development costs there can't be any margin in this for Todd.

My deposit went on one of the first 15, now I'm wondering whether to get another, one for each Pantera!

Julian

anyone have tod new email? his tlb427@sbcglobal.net does not work. thanks

try

tlb427351@yahoo.com

Another update from Tod as of 1/18/09:

quote:

The new foundry had me order two more sets of cores so we can pour two aluminum blocks after we pour the first iron one (first for him). I would like to have something for the show in Columbus, at least it is my current plan. I don't think Trumbull Metals will be holding me up for months on end like Quaker City Castings did. I was going to mold the iron casting Friday 1/16/09 but they ran out of part A binder chemical which will be delivered 1/19. I had my camera ready to take some pics of the place and molding when I got Corey's message about the delay. He is really ready to work on these things. This next week we will be getting the process started.

I have also secured a boring head for the cam bores. I am working with Big Kaiser to get the tools ready to go. This will allow me to bore the cam and cranks within 5 or 10 thousandths so the builders will only need to hone them to size. I also have Trumbull casting a Third OP machining fixture for the blocks. This fixture allows proper placing of the cam and crank from both decks.

If anyone feels complelled to verify anything I am saying with Trumbull Metal Specialties you can reach Corey Jarvis at 330-349-4505 or email him at corey@trumbullmetal.com. I worked with him on the FE blocks when he was at another foundry. I believe that foundry is still making the FE blocks for Pond when he needs them.

BTW, Pond re-set the NHRA A Stock record with one of our iron blocks.


Tod

Trumbull Metals is pouring blocks. This one is iron.

When was this iron block poured? How did the machining go? Everything turn out O.K.? Any word on when the aluminum blocks will be trialed?

Very interesting to say the least.

It was poured last week. I have not machined it yet. I checked it over and did not see any reason yet that it will not make a good block. Ofcourse, the machinist(me) could screw it up. Let's hope not. I have two sets of cores for aluminum blocks already delivered to the foundry.

Tod

This is great stuff Tod! We look forward to more updates as things progress.

Tod's iron block after its been machined

nice looking block...it would be interesting to put one of Tod's new iron blocks and an original 351c block side by side to compare quality. My bet would be for Tod's block.

An update from Tod 4/11/09

quote:

Quoting Tod Buttermore:

Yesterday we finally poured the first aluminum at Trumbull Metal Specialties. I was the test subject. We poured one block and 2 aluminum Model A high compression heads. The heads are for Snyder. WOW. Very nice castings. We used a graphite mold wash that gave the block a very nice finish right out of the sand. Everything looks good. I will machine it asap and have somebody finish machine it and build it. We're getting there boys.

Tod

Here are the pictures of the aluminum block poured at Trumbull Metal Specialties on 4/10/09:









Great Work Tod ... man I'm getting excited!

Wow! I'm in love. Ain't it a beautiful thing?

I know it has probably been stated previously, but what would be the weight of the aluminum engine complete, with aluminum heads, compared to a cast iron block and heads?

I would agree, both of Tod's castings are beautiful things -- I wish him the best!!!!!!!

Mark

Around 150 ponds lighter then the iron. Put on an aluminum flywheel and about another 23 pounds there. So about 170-175 pounds lighter.

Nothing to take lightly...or is there a pun in that?

Any news on the blocks and how its coming along?

A July 20th Update:

quote:

I have two sets of cores going to the foundry to cast two more aluminum blocks, I ordered some main caps from Kenny at ProGram, sometime this week my line boring shop is supposed to bore the iron block that is to hopefully compete in the Jeg's EMC. I will also have them line bore the aluminum sample so it can be built by somebody. As soon as I can I will machine the two aluminum, if they ever get cast.

The economy is supposed to be bad. I can't get anything done in a reasonable time. I'm so busy I can't see straight. Foundry's busy. The shop doing my line boring laughs at this bad economy stuff. And we're in Youngstown, Ohio!! I just depends on what you're doing.

Tod

A July 25th Update:

quote:

I was moving along just fine (I thought) towards having a block in the Jeg's EMC. The block was slated to be line bored yesterday. I ordered main caps last week. On Wednesday I figured I'd call and see how things stood. Not good. Not only did Program not have the front caps (which I knew when I ordered them) they didn't have material to knock them out. It was supposed to arrive yesterday. That's obviously not going to work. This is not a gripe against Kenny so don't take it that way. He has me on the fast track and will get them asap but not fast enough for the guy who wanted this block to get his work done in time. So...even though we will be boring two blocks when the caps come in, the first iron block will not be at EMC. Words can't express my disappointment.

In other news...I'm STILL WAITING on the two aluminum blocks to be cast. Gettin' mighty sick of this. Anyone want to buy a Cleveland project??

Tod

An October 16the Update:

quote:

After getting the main caps and getting the block over to the line bore shop I finally got it back yesterday. Yeah, already. 2 months? Zippin' right along. Anyway, it looks good. This block is spoken for by 351C forum member Dragboss and we just talked about his building it. I'm pretty much donating it for a build so I can get info. I am going to machine two aluminum blocks next week. Durabond sent cam bearings. I'm only waiting on one more item. Thanks for the patience you guys.

Tod

An October 20th Update:

quote:

I just got back from the auction at Canfield Cylinder Head. I hated to see my friend John have to shut down. I was able to buy anoher CNC machine with Snyder which will be dedicated to his heads. This will free up my horizontal to get to blocks immediately after they are cast. Thanks for your patience.

Tod

Are there any more updates? Will blocks become available some time?

Tod has delivered a block to an engine builder; the builder has not made any actual progress on the block yet.

The last I heard the builder is developing the code for his computer operated milling machine to perform the various block prep machining operations. The builder plans to assemble a maximum effort, high output Cleveland and then run it hard on the test stand to see how it holds up. Tod is more interested in seeing how well the assembly goes, he wants to determine if there is anything he needs to change in the design. He's anxious to go into production and fill the orders of his pre-paid customers who have been waiting so long.

Another block was slated for delivery to a drag racer for assembly, I haven't seen any news on that end.

We're getting close. Anything could happen to delay the progress of a grass roots entreprenurial project like this. Barring any further problems, 2010 may be the year the new 351C block goes on the market.

-G

March 10, 2010 - Production Begins!

quote:

If all goes well I will be starting to machine the 4 blocks I have in the shop today. The first OP fixture is already in the machine on one of the pallets while I run some small parts for Snyder on the other pallet.

I have spent the last week or so modifying the fixtures so I can get them in and out quickly. I am also working on main cap fixturing and programming. I am doing as much as I can as fast as I can. I have one machine down with a spindle drive problem so that doesn't help anything.

I will have pics asap.

Once I verify the aluminum castings I will order more and be on the way to producing the first 15 for those who have been so patiently waiting. The iron blocks look good so I ordered two more. Mark tells me there are no issues in the machining, so here we go.

If you are interested in an iron block in the near future please let me know. These first 4 are already spoken for and I know of several more that need to go out to waiting buyers. I'd like to know how many to make.

Tod

March 16, 2010

quote:

First operations complete. So far so good. While I have the first op fixture in I plan to machine first ops on 2 iron blocks. I had to take a few days to make some parts for Snyder so I had to let blocks sit for a few days.

After cutting 2nd ops I will know whether or not to order a bunch of aluminum castings.

Tod

April 1, 2010

Latest pictures of an aluminum block











-G

It beautiful. I'm in love.

WOW....I want one!

I need an explanation...there is a notch between the cylinder bores on the top of the deck...how does the head gasket seal that?

quote:

I need an explanation...there is a notch between the cylinder bores on the top of the deck...how does the head gasket seal that?

Looks like extra casting material and still needs to be finish machined, which would clean that up. My guess is that all critical mating/sealing surfaces such as this need to be final machined, and are probably cast with extra material so any casting imperfections are sure to clean up in final machining. Just my best guess.

Looks to me like the sleeves have been set low in the block. I presume to allow for final zero decking machine work, although the rest of the block does look machine finished.

I can't wait for mine to arrive....

Julian

Yep that makes sense....if you look really close the sleeves do appear, but when looking at where the cylinders siamese, you can't see the detail. The sleeves don't look that thick...maybe an optical illusion not having a picture looking straight down at the bore. For some reason I've always thought cylinder walls were much thicker than they really are, well at least the clevelands. Glad you're getting one Julian. I'm jealous.

I'm too lazy to look at the rest of the thread...how big a bore and stroke will the block take?

It appears to me there are no sleeeves yet .. and the ridge on the top is where the top of the sleeve fits in the grooove then the block is decked.

Ron

Tod's explanation

Quote:
______________________________________________

"Just in case some people want to know...the sleeves are not in this yet. The sleeves are flanged at the top .100 thick and the block is recessed .097 to allow for standard crush/expansion and whatever else goes on with sleeved aluminum blocks. I am leaving the sleeves out for the show in Columbus (All Ford Swap Meet, Columbus Ohio, April 2 & 3) so people can see what's behind the iron sleeves. The sleeve OD is 4.25 and there is another .100 or so of metal behind the sleeves. That gives you an idea of how stout the iron will be.

Tod"
______________________________________________

Well you can see how many aluminum sleeved blocks I've played around with!!! So this a dry sleeve block without the liners. Makes total sense now. Thanks very much

Hi all I went to the swap meet today in Columbus and got to see the block first hand. I took a few pics, I will post them tomorrow. We just walked in the door and Im beat!
But to the point this is one awesome looking piece of hot rodding equipment. Chatting with Tod was a real pleasure, I must of had his attention for over a half hour and there was a group of people waiting to have there time with him, so Kim and I then toured the rest of the swap meet. Til tomorrow.
Jeff

thanks for the pictures Jeff,

Tod's a great guy isn't he.

May 6, 2010

Tod has had no luck getting blocks poured at the foundries he normally does business with, i.e. the foundries he trusts to do the job. They are too busy with large orders (making big money) to stop and cast a few blocks for Tod.

Here's his latest update:

quote:

"First, thanks to everyone for their support. I am continuing to forge ahead. Thanks to those who emailed or called offering to help the project along.

Second, I have talked to two foundries about castings and will be getting some blocks as soon as cores are ready. I ordered 4 more sets of cores. That makes six sets. Four aluminum and 2 iron.

Third, I sleeved one of the aluminum blocks and it looks good. Pressure test revealed a very small porosity leak that can be fixed easily enough.

Fourth, I am going to have to do what I can when I can until I can get a loan for another machine. Since I am not on any bank's or government list of acceptable persons to throw money at I will have to continue to finance my own way, which isn't all that bad, since I hate debt.

Fifth, I have hired a helper to run Snyder parts and with both of us working 10 hours a day I don't see any end to 6-7 days a week any time soon. Please know that I am doing as much as my health allows.

Tod"

May 19, 2010

Sharing another update

quote:

2 iron blocks were molded today and I picked up the pattern to have two other foundries make aluminum samples. 4 sets of aluminum cores are to be ready by Friday. I had cores at the foundry for 2 months and I assembled two molds inside of 2 hours this morning.

I'm trying to buy another machine which will be for blocks only. I am proceeding as opportunity allows. A replacement tool for cutting the oil slinger arrived two weeks late so now I can cut first operations again.

Tod

August 27, 2010

Sharing another update

quote:

I'm plugging away at getting castings and getting out what is machined. Things are crawling along but at least they are moving. I am waiting to hear from MME on the two iron blocks Mark is building. I have 2 aluminum blocks going out for initial aluminum builds and 3 more aluminum blocks in the shop to machine. I am to cast 2 more iron next week. I have managed to pare down my work backlog to mostly just heads for Snyder and C blocks. It looks like it will be a busy fall and winter. I hope to have most, if not all of the deposit blocks out by year's end.

I have been working 6-7 days a week and there is just no end to available work and new projects. If my health wasn't in the crapper this would be easier but I'm playing with the hand I've been dealt and doing the best I can. Thanks for all the support and interest.

Tod

October 19, 2010

Sharing another update

quote:

One of my iron blocks purchased by Mark McKeown was built dyno tested and shipped to a customer. I spoke to Heather and she didn't indicate that there were any issues with the block I needed to correct.

An aluminum block is being built right now in Kentucky. Still trying to get more castings.

Tod

quote:

The First New Cleveland was run for the first time back in September. The Date was actually 9-11-10. We ran the engine on the dyno for approximately 2 weeks. We did many heat cycles and different kinds of pulls and testing as well as verifying over that long period on the dyno. The engine was off the dyno at the end of September. The First Buttermore Cleveland has been successfully run and tested.

Mark (MME)

December 14, 2010

quote:

I dropped off the main cap pattern today. Pretty soon I will have sample castings for my ductile main caps. I will post pics when I get them.

Cores are on order for more blocks too.

Tod

-G

January 4, 2011

quote:

You can't see it, but I'm actually smiling today. I haven't used those muscles in a while! I'm machining another aluminum block right now and I have 2 more in the shop.

I'm still waiting on cores for more castings ... oops, now I'm frowning again.

It's been more frustrating than anyone can imagine but my stubborn stupidity and dread of failure just keeps me plugging away. Hopefully things will gain some momentum this year.

Happy New Year everyone.

Tod

-G

The first aluminum "Cleveland" using a Buttermore engine block

The motor displaces 408 cubic inches and is equipped with an MME modified Jessel cam belt drive and an ATI dampener. It shall be topped by CHI 3V heads (11.0:1 compression ratio) and fuel injected using a CHI single plane manifold modified for Ford injector bungs. It will be installed in a 1970 Mustang used for drag racing, and driven to and from the track on the street.

photo courtesy of Don the owner

-G

Are these blocks ready for production to be sold? I am interested in purchaing the aluminum block

Hi Tarik,

The blocks are not available for immediate sale at this time, but we are hoping the project will gain momentum this year. Tod has had problems with some of his early castings, and has had to make adjustments to how his cores are assembled, and how the castings are poured. Its a learning process. But it seems he has those problems behind him now. Tod continues having difficulty getting his cores manufactured, and getting his blocks cast.

The first blocks shall be delivered to those who supported this project by paying in advance. Tod is also hoping for feedback from those who receive the earliest blocks to determine what if any problems there may be in his design. At least two motors have been assembled using Tod's blocks, one with a cast iron block and one with an aluminum block. Testing of both the cast iron and aluminum motors has not revealed any weaknesses in the design so far.

I am waiting for production to begin in earnest myself, but that time is not here yet. Hopefully later this year.

-G

Thanks so much for the reply

Looking forward for the production of this fine engine block.

Regards

Tarik Richards

George, I an about to begin the installation of the lifter bore bushings. I noticed that in the prior pict of the first Buttermore Alum. engine the bushings are slightly out of the bores by about 1/8" inch. The instructions stated flush. How deep shall they be driven?

The bushings in the picture were done by MME. Mark makes his own bushings, he doesn't use Denny's kit. Mark must have had a reason for wanting the bushings hanging out of the lifter bores, but I can't say why he did it. He probably manufactured longer than normal bushings that would allow him to do that.

You should follow the instructions provided by Denny Wydendorf.

-G

Lifter bore bushing kit? Really? Tell me more. Where. who, how much?

If you run a roller hydraulic lifter on a cam with lots of lift, the higher bushing contains the oil in the lifter. Otherwise, the standard cleveland bore may not be tall enough, depending on the bleed hole positioning in the lifter body as well, and permit the oil to escape from the lifter body while it approaches the cam lobe's peak lift.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
... Lifter bore bushing kit? Really? Tell me more. Where. who, how much? ...

Yes really. Its a duplicate of the kit Ford sold in the '70s and '80s. Denny has been drag racing Cleveland powered Super Stock Fords since he and I were both kids. He's a big 351C enthusiast, and an asset to other 351C owners. The kit is $299 without bushings, $399 with 16 bushings.

His web site: Wydendorf Machine

-G

quote:

Originally posted by JTpantera:
... Otherwise, the standard cleveland bore may not be tall enough ...

Ah yes John, but that's not a standard block. That's one of Tod Buttermore's blocks. First assumption is that the extended bushings must have something to do with lifter compatibility. BUT Tod made the lifter bores in his block taller, to accomodate roller lifters.

Mark McKeown marches to his own drummer sometimes. That's why I avoided second guessing why he extended lifter bores that were already taller than those of the production block.

-G

Great...thanks G.

February 10, 2011

Another update from Tod

quote:

"Two sets of sample ductile iron main caps were cast Feb 4. There were a couple of flaws in three castings but they are good for setting up machining."

Tod

-G

May 31, 2011

Another update from Tod

quote:

1. I am in the process of making 3 iron castings.

2. I am trying to set up to pour my own aluminum castings. I already have the aluminum furnace, now I just need space. I haven't heard back from the landlord for over two months about renting more space so I am looking at another location. Not only do I have enough block interest to warrant setting up to pour aluminum, I have other work that I can add to it, which helps justify pursuing this way around the lack of foundries willing to pour my blocks.

3. I am looking into getting another horizontal machine, mainly for blocks.

4. I still have at least a year of work back-logged.

5. I am back to a no help situation.

6. I was the topic of a horribly botched news-paper article that may as well have been intended to under-mine my whole livelihood.

7. I am still forging ahead dispite all hinderances and obstacles.

8. I am stupid and stubborn as ever.

The saga continues

Tod

July 12, 2011

excellent news from Tod!

quote:

I just pulled the third aluminum block out of the machine. I have more aluminum castings ordered and things look good with the machining. After the next 8 blocks it will be time to start on the next batch of customers.

I really appreciate the patience of the current depositors who have stuck with it through all the delays. "Thank You" just doesn't seem like enough to say.

I have no doubt that the iron will take off soon too.

I have told dozens of people to keep their deposit money in hand until I get things going smoothly. That being said, would it be possible to get an idea of how many more people here plan to order a block? I would like to take such info to the bank as I try to get another machine just dedicated to blocks.

Tod

Here's a picture:

Wow.... virgin, naked aluminum blocks.... I'm getting a woody

Engine PORN

Pricing, both of iron and aluminum, looks really interesting to me

Not feeling like going through the entire thread (17 pages already), is about all a 1 to 1 fit? I mean things like crank, water pump, distributor, heads, oil pan, etc...? I still can go out shopping for the regular Cleveland parts stuff, and all is just bolt on?

Anything specific one would need to reckon with when going with one of these blocks. I did understand some minor machining still needs to be done, but other than that?

Cleveland parts are a direct bolt-on, this IS a Cleveland block. It has Windsor oil passages however (main priority). The lifter bores are extended for roller lifters.

Pricing of future sales shall increase, currently being quoted at $2450 for iron, $2850 aluminum.

For that price you get a basic machined block that has 3.99 cylinder bores (iron or aluminum), has the crank rough bored to match the Pro-Gram caps (.020 under sized), has the cam roughed (allowing for finish work to whatever the build requires), and the lifter bores are just drilled to .812 which allows them to be finished by a builder or bushed as some will no doubt prefer.

-G

George,
I'm interested in Tod's aluminum block and have a couple of questions.

Are the liners removable and what are they made of?

Can the block be delivered using a different liner material? Without liners?

What is the expected delivery time for orders placed now?

What is the current price?

When is the price increase expected?

Thanks,
Mark

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

Are the liners removable and what are they made of?

The liners are made of iron.

are you asking if they can be removed after they've been pressed in?

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

Can the block be delivered using a different liner material? Without liners?

These are questions you'll have to ask Tod

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

What is the expected delivery time for orders placed now?

This is another question you'll have to ask Tod directly, although I suspect his answer will be that he can't predict the delivery time.

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

What is the current price?

Any future orders will be at the higher price ... i.e.$2450 & $2850.

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

When is the price increase expected?

Its already happened. The $2850 price of the aluminum block is incredibly inexpensive, but there's probably $2000 worth of finished machine work needed, so keep that in mind.

-G

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

When is the price increase expected?

Its already happened. The $2850 price of the aluminum block is incredibly inexpensive, but there's probably $2000 worth of finished machine work needed, so keep that in mind.

-G

I found that out as well. Good to get it out there.

Hi,

Is there an update on the alloy Cleveland block?

Thanks,

Matt

Hi Matt

I haven't heard anything in a while

drop Tod an email at:

tlb427351

at yahoo

dot com

-G

Mailed some time ago with him (since I want to go the all alloy way), but haven't heard from him since a while neither...

Thanks, I hope he's successful. I have a '74L 7259 with 15,000 miles...... I'm not sure which way to go.

You can follow Tod's progress on the 351C forum too, although George does a good job of posting the updates here too.

351C Forum - Tod Buttermore

I am sure once Tod has everything worked out blocks will start rolling out quicker, but at present I don't know he has delivered on any of the pre-orders, other than one to MME. Mine is #15 alloy....

Julian

Tod refunded my deposit on an aluminum block even though I didn't ask for it back. He unilaterally sent it back. I feared that meant the project was dead but he said no. He said he saw on some forum that I was dissatisfied with the delivery delay and so was refunding my money. I never posted anything like that and asked where he saw it but he couldn't remember. I was one of the early ones in the queue. Maybe it got re-routed to someone more important?

Dan Jones

Dan,

So do you still have a place in the queue or given up on that?

Julian

> So do you still have a place in the queue or given up on that?

I don't think so but I'm not sure. Tod is a man of few words.

Dan Jones

After i have readed all 19 pages of this topic, i'm 100% sure, that the new block will show up together with the new Pantera in 2XXXX.
Can't await it.

quote:

Posted November 02, 2011 10:34 AM Hide Post
Tod refunded my deposit on an aluminum block even though I didn't ask for it back. He unilaterally sent it back. I feared that meant the project was dead but he said no. He said he saw on some forum that I was dissatisfied with the delivery delay and so was refunding my money. I never posted anything like that and asked where he saw it but he couldn't remember. I was one of the early ones in the queue. Maybe it got re-routed to someone more important?

Dan Jones

Really?

Does this ring any bells?

http://list.realbig.com/piperm...11-March/132455.html


It says:

[DeTomaso] MME?s 21st CENTURY CLEVELAND 2K CRATE ENGINE: THE FIRST OF ITS KIND
Daniel C Jones daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 29 15:18:06 CDT 2011
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> Are they using refurbished original cast iron blocks? What bore? I'd
> hate to find they bored it more than .030" over or even just -at-
> .030" and then have it grenade on me because of thin walls.

No that is an all aftermarket engine using Tod Buttermore's blocks
(still not shipping to those of us that put a deposit down 3+ years ago).
Think 5 figure price out-the-door.

Dan Jones

If people don't like that I have 2 years worth of work back-logged and no help of any sort and they choose to publicly express displeasure then they shouldn't be suprised if I end their displeasure now, right? I have been completely open and honest about the problems I have encountered and yet the plain and simple English I have spoken seems above and beyond the capacity of some to understand.

I have given everyone who has emailed me detailed explanations of what is going on at the time. I am not doing that anymore on the Cleveland forum because the last thread had posts deleted (not even mine) and then was locked. If people want to know something they can email me.

Tod

The internet is an imperfect medium of communication. If you'd pointed
me to that post when I asked about it, I could have explained. I get a
lot of Pantera guys asking me to help with their engine projects and I
help as much as I can. A number have asked me about the expected
availability of your block. Some of the guys need or want a block in a
relatively short time, say a couple of months. For them, your block is
not an option. For those that decide they can wait, they need to be
prepared to wait for the block's development to be completed, the initial
batch of orders delivered and a second batch produced. My post was simply
meant as a warning that they needed to be prepared to wait an indefinite
time. Given that my post was some 7 months ago and you're still in
development, I think that was a reasonable statement. I did not mean to
imply I personally was unhappy with the wait. I knew full well the risks
when I put my money down.

I do admit to being unhappy that you unilateraly decided to send back my
deposit. When I sent in the deposit, I assumed it to be a contract of sorts.
I provide you with capital to help develop the project in exchange for you
holding a place for me in the initial order of blocks at the agreed upon
price. I'm sorry you decided to breach this agreement because of a simple
post I made. In any event, I wish you the best of luck on the project.

Dan Jones

Just so everyone knows, I have not stopped my project with the MME announcement coming about. I am pushing ahead with the aluminum foundry and have the new machining center for blocks. I have some 10 orders to fill asap and then will start to accept orders from the many dozens of inquiries I have refused to take money from.

Tod Buttermore

Good news I'm happy to read

March 17, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

After only a short 6 months of trying to get at some space for my aluminum casting area it looks like it's falling into place. Thought some of you might like to know that.

Tod Buttermore

-G

April 12, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

Space for my aluminum foundry has been acquired! I take possession May 1st. Aluminum blocks will recieve priority, but I also have at least a half dozen other parts to make on a regular basis. It will be nice to have more control over production.

I am also heading back to the iron foundry for iron block castings. I made the pattern easier for them to mold. If I have to, my core shop can assemble the molds so pouring the blocks is the only time the iron foundry has to make room for. I'm trying to eliminate any excuse they may have for not pouring my iron blocks.

Tod

-G

Congrats on your new foundry Tod! This has been a long frustrating time for you and really glad to see you are hanging in there and carrying on for this project.

June 2, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

After all the waiting, and setting up of the pattern for high production, good iron castings were poured yesterday. I incorporated a core moving solution that proved 100% effective. The owner of the foundry couldn't even detect my solution. 2 castings poured yesterday and 2 more to come next week. Now that the iron is to my liking, moving ahead without reserve is comfortable. I had a bad week in some respects but these beautiful castings made it all fade away.

Giddyup!

Tod

-G

June 11, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

I put together two more molds Saturday which will be poured today. Hopefully we'll get two more successful castings. I'm going to go through my emails and let all the interested parties know iron is a go if I see good results tomorrow. These first 4 are already spoken for.

Tod

-G

June 12, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

The next two look even better than the last two. Several logistic and production flow issues have been put in place now to make this move along like I want it to.

Thanks to all of you who have constantly emailed me and/or expressed your support on this forum.

Now it is time to put the dealer/builder organization together and get these things really moving.

Tod

-G

Are there any more updates regarding Tod's Cleveland?

Mark

Tod has not made any announcements in quite some time. As far as I know, he only needs to establish a relationship with a good machine shop to perform the finish machine work on his blocks ... everything else is in place.

-G

Will this new block be as strong as the XE192540 block? Will the casting look similar or will it be noticeably different to an original Cleveland block?

The exterior of the casting is identical to the exterior of the factory D2AE-CA block.

If you read the first page of this thread the details & specs of Tod's block are explained.

-G

quote:

Originally posted by Coolvet:
Will this new block be as strong as the XE192540 block? Will the casting look similar or will it be noticeably different to an original Cleveland block?

Better. Although the "NASCAR" block is thick through the pan rails and bulkheads, the bore liners are still thin.

This new block fixes that but really is much more then anyone could ever need for a street engine but if you really wanted to try to rev a stroker engine, this would be the block to use since the cylinder walls are thicker at the thrust points in the bores.

Awesome, how can I get one of the cast iron blocks?

Send him a deposit. Put your name on the list. Hope you live long enough to see it.

January 2, 2013

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have finally been able to take some time and work on final setup of my new horizontal machining center. That meant adding additional 480V access for the transformer, setting the machine in place (quite a chore!), programming in fixed canned cycles (since the memory board battery was dead when I bought the machine), test running various programs, and a host of other initial setup items, all while doing the daily paying work.

I have 4 iron blocks ready to machine and need to cast a few more aluminum to fill first run orders. Several dealers have been patiently waiting for everything to come together. Hopefully this year will see much improvement in getting into production.

Thanks to everyone here for your patient support and understanding.

Tod

-G

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
January 2, 2013

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have finally been able to take some time and work on final setup of my new horizontal machining center. That meant adding additional 480V access for the transformer, setting the machine in place (quite a chore!), programming in fixed canned cycles (since the memory board battery was dead when I bought the machine), test running various programs, and a host of other initial setup items, all while doing the daily paying work.

I have 4 iron blocks ready to machine and need to cast a few more aluminum to fill first run orders. Several dealers have been patiently waiting for everything to come together. Hopefully this year will see much improvement in getting into production.

Thanks to everyone here for your patient support and understanding.

Tod

-G

This thread began in 2007, so is this latest update believable? Is it likely these blocks will be delivered in 2013?

quote:

Originally posted by Coolvet:

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
January 2, 2013

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have finally been able to take some time and work on final setup of my new horizontal machining center. That meant adding additional 480V access for the transformer, setting the machine in place (quite a chore!), programming in fixed canned cycles (since the memory board battery was dead when I bought the machine), test running various programs, and a host of other initial setup items, all while doing the daily paying work.

I have 4 iron blocks ready to machine and need to cast a few more aluminum to fill first run orders. Several dealers have been patiently waiting for everything to come together. Hopefully this year will see much improvement in getting into production.

Thanks to everyone here for your patient support and understanding.

Tod

-G

This thread began in 2007, so is this latest update believable? Is it likely these blocks will be delivered in 2013?

Coolvet, I'm sure you are unaware of the obstacles I have had to endure. That's understandable. I was completely caught off guard and I have 36 years in the industry. Right now everything I am making is spoken for, in both aluminum and iron. I have at least 4 dealer/builders lined up to work with customers. I have several blocks going to Australia. The next iron block I machine is a special going to Aus. All remaining back orders will be filled before I take more orders. I have refused deposits on dozens of blocks because production flow was not in place. I have documented the reasons for delays so many times that I will not do it again here. I have had to work personally to do the work of my suppliers for them to get past all of the hurdles. It is sad, but true. If you care to hear details contact me by email and I can fill you in.

Tod

Hi Tod,
Thanks for your reply. I was trying not to offend you but wanted to know if this was a real live project. I now understand that it is. I have no idea what hurdles you have had to negotiate but this is clearly not a small project.

I am interested in a couple of your cast iron blocks for a circuit race car in Australia. We want to have this car ready by February 2014.

Is it likely that we could get a block from you in mid-2013?

PS: I couldn't find an email address for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Coolvet:
Hi Tod,
Thanks for your reply. I was trying not to offend you but wanted to know if this was a real live project. I now understand that it is. I have no idea what hurdles you have had to negotiate but this is clearly not a small project.

I am interested in a couple of your cast iron blocks for a circuit race car in Australia. We want to have this car ready by February 2014.

Is it likely that we could get a block from you in mid-2013?

PS: I couldn't find an email address for you.

Coolvet, email me at

tlb427351

at

yahoo dot com

Tod