New Heavy Duty 351C Block, by Tod Buttermore

More info would be great. I am a Pantera purist who feels only a Cleveland block should be in a Pantera. Someday there will be a new engine in 2511, and a stout brand-new 351C block for a starting point would be great.

Larry

What is your email?
W

Tod, we are all looking forward to the results of your test blocks. Please post your email address or send it to me at
richard@hitecheng.on.ca
Thank you
RichardT.

my email is tlb427@sbcglobal.net

The interest is growing and i plan to make a form spec sheet to respond to all of th questions.

tod

Tod it may help just to post the specs on this site 351C is the motor of choice so your in good company here.

Ron

Todd. I've been asked by others on the realbig board about cost and improvement details . Can you post these so I can forward it to the members?
Thanks, Will

this is copied & pasted from the Cleveland Forum:

Specifications of Tod Buttermore's new Cleveland block.

Siamesed bores. Cylinder O.D. is 4.550". Bores allow 4.125" overbore while retaining 0.212" walls. 4.185" bore will have 0.182" walls.

Priority Main oiling system. Sump, oil filter, crossover in front, up to main oil galley along side of the cam, from main oil galley to criss-crossed oil connection in rear of valley, through lifter oil galleys that are currently set to be 0.3125" diameter like Tod's FE block.

4 bolt mains.
Solid pan rails.
Billet caps. (Splaying will come later)
9.200" decks. (Possible 9.500" special order)
0.630" Deck thickness.
Screw-in freeze plugs.
Round water outlets at the decks for those who wish to tap and plug the holes.

External: Same bolt bosses as a stock Cleveland block, including the clutch pivot.

Finish: Bores unfinished. Will need to be honed to your pistons. Cam and crank bores unfinished. Hone to size. Decks squared to 0.002"-0.003".

Price Estimate: Iron will be $2200-$2300 and aluminum will be $2800-$2900.

Thanks George.

Hey Todd,I like what I see so far.I'd like to be kept up to date.

I am posting this info at Tod's request:

So far, here is a list of those interested in at least one block.

Tim Halstead
George Pence, cowboy from hell
Dave Wharan
Bruce (fomoco)
Randy (sellracing)
Travis
Shaneus
Jim Foster
Mark Skwarek
Canada Kaz
Ron Hammer
Vince Shanahan
Lyle Gilmore
Scott Popham
Chuck Engles
Jim Petersen
JF Jim
Bernhard Goldbach (Berlin, the Old Country!)
Rob Wehrli
David Thompson
Brenden Will
Jim Goodman
Ron Lombardo

Those who have expressed interest in dealing blocks:

AFD Dave
CHI John
Survival Motorsports (the great Barry Rabotnik)
Steven Toth
Paul Tattersall
Ty Lofstrom/TLI Racing
Mark McKeown/MME Racing

I haven't discussed anything with Kaase yet.

If you want on the list or taken off, please respond.

I meet with the bank on Wednesday and need as complete a list as possible for the initial wave of sales.

Thanks,

Tod

If you want to commit to the purchase of a block, you must contact Tod directly at:

tlb427 at sbcglobal dot net

Tod may not get your message if you only post it here

Me ... Ron Lombardo ..count me in for the Aluminum Version.

Tod has posted a quick blurb on the Cleveland Forum:

Quote:
"by the end of next week we will cast one"

Are you telling me that soon we will be able to buy an all aluminum engine from Mark McKeown, that will make 600 horsepower and all you gotta do is bolt it in??? Are you serious?? Do you know what this could lead to?? Have you no sense of social resposibility??? My God man, think of the ramifications on the social fabric of our poor belegured nation. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back!! A bunch of killer Panteras running amok??? I shudder to think!!!!

DT? An aluminum block C? I guess about $12,000. Your wife said you can get one? Great. I like her.

DT I think 600hp is conservative .. have we heard the projection of what HP this block is capable of ? Is it comparable to the DART Block.

quote:

An aluminum block C? I guess about $12,000.

Now, if the block is about $2900 - as posted above, I doubt you would NEED to spend another $9000 to get a complete engine - if you shop wisely and wrench yourself.

If you just write a check to MME, then $12K may be close.

Now where can I find $12K??

HINT: who needs GRP 4 tail lights?

Great, Doug, Ron and Larry you prove my point. Every Pantera owner will want one. They will have two and a half times the power they were designed to handle. You guys will go out and become public menaces and Nancy Pelosi will ban Panteras as being too dangerous to allow ordicnary citizens to own. Only Police and military should be allowed to have assault Panteras. You mark my words, you hot rodders will screw it up for the rest of us.
Man those grapes are sour. :P

Maybe this has already been discussed, but is this block machined, bored, and squared ready to go. Most race block I have seen require thousands of dollars in additional machining just to the block.

quote:

Finish: Bores unfinished. Will need to be honed to your pistons. Cam and crank bores unfinished. Hone to size. Decks squared to 0.002"-0.003".

I think that is about $500 right there.
I don't like the idea of line honing but that's what they do. Hone everything till it fits.
Since it is always on a go, no-go basis, I'm alsways afraid of the mains being just a little to loose.
I think that I'm a wory wart.

I'm not sure you can determine whether the deck is .002-.003" until the mains are finished, but I do like that number.

I know it is a "Cleveland" but is it cut for 9.2"?

quote:

9.200" decks. (Possible 9.500" special order)

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Mensen:
...is this block machined, bored, and squared ready to go. Most race block I have seen require thousands of dollars in additional machining ...

Engine builders like to perform the machining work themselves, or have their preferred machine shop do the work. They don't trust the block manufacturer to get everything as "square" as they would like it. and they're probably right. So block manufacturers leave the block partially unmachined to satisfy the engine builders, it gives the engine builder more block material to work with.

I am building a 351W SVO block. in some places in the bores there is evidence of slight casting texture. This is going to require a little more then a HONE ... cost ??? I estimate if I was doing the work ?? it may need a slight hit with a boring bar then a hone ... the deck will need to be checked if its square ?? then the main caps need to be milled and block line bored and or maybe a slight hone ... can should also be honed ... in my guestimation ?? this is time and money. Buying a block could mean 1000.00 in machining ... money well spent ....

BUT AND I SAY BUT ... Tod has been involved in the manufacturing of a few other very successful FE blocks. So expect this C block to be of high quality ..which probably reduce that 1000 figure.

R

I must be a really spoiled old timer. Maybe just plane lucky.
I was looking to reduce compression on my Clevelands and FE's.
I never had to aligh bore, or deck any of them.

$2900 plus the shipping and another $1200 to $1500 is a lot for an engine that doesn't need a full race prep.

What happens on the first rebore with new pistons and a new pin height? You have to do it all again?

It doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money on the block. What you are tring to do is equalize the compression stokes on each cylinder.

A production block won't even care about that until 8000rpm.

Does this block have more in it then 8000rpm?
You are into titanium everything with that you know?

That's the territory where the NASCAR "hot shots" put a Hank the Crank recip assembly in the LeManns Pantera and it blew up because the welds couldn't hold the Mallory metal in the crank at that rpms.

I wouldn't trust anyone with a NASCAR background. They can't even make a bobsled go fast without blowing up.

Doug,

This is by no means intended to debate you. BUT !

Any new Amunium Block for 2900.00 with Ductile Iron sleeves and the heritage that this block has ( GENESIS, POND and 460 TRICKFLOW ) my guess and hope is it will need minimual machining less then 1000 ..but when I build a motor costing 2900 for a block totaling 12k complete I have my engine builder check everything.

MME just built CL's motor with low compression and 700hp ... not full race prep ...but close.

On the first rebore the block has already been squared up ..but I would check it again. Remember years ago .. the drag racers used to use a new block in the tow vehicle to season it prior to machining it for race prep ..thats why I would check is again.

It brand new block I would spend the money for this block for high HP other wise purchase a 1500 SVO block for the street ..NO? At this price I dont think your buying it to compare to a production block .... I think this block is for excess of 8000 rpm ..the only man who can answer that is TOD.

Titanium ?? I;m into that now on the motor I;m building anyway.


" welds couldn't hold the Mallory metal in the crank at that rpms." ..... sorry bro but I;m a certified welder in Stick and Tig and that dont sound right ..

NASCAR is another story and a subject for another day .. you got big money, big sponsors, a lot of fans, hot shot drivers,

Ron

I wouldn't trust anyone with a NASCAR background. They can't even make a bobsled go fast without blowing up.

I will say one thing. I think $2900 for an aluminum block is a really good deal, and very tempting for me.

You are right. If you are going to "invest" in a real high performance engine, you have to spend what is necessary to give it the best odds of lasting.

I suppose that there is sufficient technology to make these blocks good investments. That is as long as you don't switch over to a Chevy.

These new blocks seem like a good ideal to me. If you are shooting for 500 plus HP why gamble on a production block that will only probably be able to be bored (Rebuilt) once before tossed in the trash because the cylinder wall thickness is to thin.

Not only that it will save you money if the bottom end doesn't fly apart and bend rods, break your crank and crack your high dollar heads.

I might be interested in the aluminum block myself as I'm sure the weight savings in the rear of my car would help me go around the corners a little faster. But I sure like the longer stroke in the 9.5" blocks

You can build a 427 Clevo with this block Mark:

4.125" bore x 4.00" stroke.

Even at a bore of 4.125" the cylinder walls are nominally 0.212" thick, plus you have a Windsor-like priority-mains oil system. Screw in freeze plugs and other little goodies.

George, my whole life I have wanted a car with an all aluminum 427. This is something I want to have very badly but I will never be able to have. You talking about it just makes it worse. I have wantitis so bad it is causing me bouts of depresion. Please don't keep rubbing it in what I can't have. It is making me bitter.

Ok sorry not to burst your bubbles, but has anyone thought (maybe I missed this topic/forum) about a World Man O'War 460 Ford "small block" aluminum block and heads??? see links below:

http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/102075.htm

http://www.theengineshop.com/clevor.htm

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles...allblock/0510em_war/

http://www.worldcastings.com/ManOWarAluminumHomepage.htm

THIS IS A SMALL BLOCK FORD CRATE MOTOR THAT I GATHER IS PRETTY MUCH A BOLT IN MOTOR/HEAD COMBO WITH A 24 MONTH WARRANTY AND 600+ HP!!!

No bubble to burst, this one is a Cleveland block.
Some people feel that is what is supposed to be in the Pantera.
Go figure?

Dart, World Products and Ford Racing all sell WINDSOR blocks in alloy. If a 100% Windsor or a Clevor is your bag, then that's a good way to proceed.

The one difference you'll notice, with it's 9.2" deck height, the Clevo is limited to a 4.00" stroke. The Windsor is available in either 9.2" OR 9.5" decks, that extra 0.3" of deck allows the Windsor to fit a crankshaft with a longer stroke, up to 4.25".

However, when installing a non-Cleveland motor in a Pantera, you have to ask what exhaust systems are available. In this case, a 460 cubic inch CHI headed Clevor has no off the shelf exhaust systems available for installing it in a Pantera. All of the exhausts available for 9.5" deck motors are designed for Windsor style heads. Exhausts designed for Cleveland heads are designed for 9.2" deck blocks.

I hope that clears up some of the issues involved.

cowboy from hell

DeTom had just mentioned that he'd been dreaming of an aluminum 427....so an aluminum 460 is even better...The amazing thing is how much weight you lose and the inches you get without going to a big block. Yeah there may be some draw backs, but what a blast to drive, less weight (only 375 lbs) and a bunch more power.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom@Seal Beach:
DeTom had just mentioned that he'd been dreaming of an aluminum 427....so an aluminum 460 is even better...The amazing thing is how much weight you lose and the inches you get without going to a big block. Yeah there may be some draw backs, but what a blast to drive, less weight (only 375 lbs) and a bunch more power.

Detom is a fool with champain dreams on a beer budget. Don't listen to him. He is just jealous because everyone else is getting cool stuff for their cars that he can't afford. Detom is just a Pantera "cool guy" wantabe. Just ignore him and he will go away.

Latest news from Tod Buttermore, Tuesday May 22, 2007 ....

Quote:
"The mold is assembled, I am set to cast Wednesday morning. Despite some set-backs today outside of the foundry I was able to assemble a mold for the first sample casting. The molder is on vacation this week so I had to do alot of the work myself. The mold went together very well. I did spot some areas I want to increase metal thickness in, but over-all I am very pleased. One of the foundry guys watching and helping said he thought the set-up went together better than my FE mold does. Hopefully I will have the casting shaken out by tomorrow afternoon. Stay tuned.....Tod"

ONE STEP CLOSER TO REALIZING A DREAM

Latest news from Tod Buttermore, Wednesday May 23, 2007 ....

Quote
"We poured the first block this morning at 8:30 and shook it out this afternoon at 1:00. Not bad. Had one mis run flaw that was welded while the metal was still warm. Once it is heat treated and cleaned up I will put the old yardstick to it and see if it needs any dimensional attention. I may have to use a tape measure for more accurate readings.....Tod"

picture 1 of 5

picture 2 of 5

picture 3 of 5

picture 4 of 5

picture 5 of 5

HEY George, it looks like he fixed that weak spot between the mains and the cam bearings. I bet this block would let you turn ten grand easy as pie.

quote:

Originally posted by accobra:
Remember years ago .. the drag racers used to use a new block in the tow vehicle to season it prior to machining it for race prep ..thats why I would check it again.

I used to work at an authorized Ford remanufacturer in Edmonton, Alberta, and I have bored, sleeved, and decked hundreds and hundreds of Ford V8 blocks.

The oil patch went through these motors like salted peanuts, and of course returned the core that they replaced. Often, that core was an engine that we had already rebuilt.

My observation was that a "new" block took as many as a dozen passes to get its decks square and flat, whereas the slightest kiss with the surfacer made a previously remanufactured block clean.

My conclusion was that the cast iron moved around quite a bit as it was seasoned, but once seasoned, it was very, very stable.

Aside: operating the boring bar in a production line environment is the world's most aptly named job.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
Great, Doug, Ron and Larry you prove my point. Every Pantera owner will want one. They will have two and a half times the power they were designed to handle. You guys will go out and become public menaces and Nancy Pelosi will ban Panteras as being too dangerous to allow ordicnary citizens to own. Only Police and military should be allowed to have assault Panteras. You mark my words, you hot rodders will screw it up for the rest of us.
Man those grapes are sour. :P

Nancy will allow them under an amnesty program that allows migrant workers on her fram to keep them under the "no strikes" and you're in program. This will be attached to a bill in the Senate banning full term fun at short term functions.

That is very cool to see. Reminds me of making fishing weights in shop class - only a million times more complicated

But a serious question - Is this an aluminum alloy? Do we know what the recipe is? Or purity? I would think this is a concern for a block of this type & size.

This is not an issue for me. Tod Buttermore knows what he's doing, he has a proven track record. He's not a young man and his career is in the foundry business (he's a pattern maker). He has been involved in at least 2 other successful engine block projects (both 427 FE blocks). So he's no newcomer to building engine blocks, this is not a one-time deal for him and he has a reputation to maintain. However I'm sure if you asked him he would tell you both the alloy and the heat treat he plans to use, why he selected this alloy, his experience with the alloys he used in the past, what the industry standard is, etc.

cowboy from hell

A second round of 5 pictures. I am assuming this is a second block. This one "looks" perfect.

1 of 5

2 of 5

3 of 5

4 of 5

5 of 5

George,
Any idea as to how long it might be before we could buy one of these things?

Art(broken engine)Stephens

Sorry Art, no.

That sure is pretty!

Wow thats a thing of beauty ... so when ????

Ron

quote:

Originally posted by accobra:
... so when ...

Quoting the Cleveland Forum

"Several people have asked about release of blocks for purchase. At this time I am looking to buy my own machine to machine these parts and other parts that have presented themselves lately. If I have to depend on someone else to do my machining for me I might as well stop where I am, cut the pattern into little pieces, and move along. I am looking into financing and have a few machines I am considering. These things move at a glacial pace it seems, so bear with me as I do my best to get to the final stages of this project. I'm doing what I can when I can...Tod"

PROGRESS REPORT

Quoting the Cleveland Forum

"I have machined the bottom end of the sample block and am very pleased with the part so far. I am making very slow progress due to several hinderances. At the pattern shop, not only did a massive amount of work come in to interupt my time on the block project, but their CNC controller went down after a storm and I had to pull the whole CPU box to ship it for repairs. It first started acting up while I was cutting waterjacket core boxes. Then it went down completely while I was cutting something for them. Moving has slowed me down quite a bit. And now it looks like I have a shot at a project manager's position at a very prestigious aluminum foundry. They just lost their man and were recommended by my machine shop owner friend to call me. We talk on Tuesday. It's an hour away but the money and work seem to make the decision for me. I may have to pass off all machining to my friend's shop.

On other notes, Pro-gram Engineering has offered a deal to be the main-cap supplier for all blocks...Tod"

I have been in contact with Tod and have this update for everyone:

As posted on the cleveland forum, Tod will be delivering blocks to engine builders soon, and expects to produce his first run of blocks soon afterwards. He is readying to begin production.

The following is copied and pasted from the Cleveland Forum:

I am heading into the machining phase of the project so it is just a matter of time now until blocks will be ready for test building and then sales. I have avoided taking deposits up till now lest people attach the Genesis debaucle to my project. They took deposits without even having a pattern completed. I have a partially machined block with tooling and fixturing underway. I have invested quite a bit of myself and my money into this and thus I am not fearful to say that I am at the point where I am comfortable to take deposits on the first blocks that will be produced.

My plan is to do aluminum fist, since it is easier to machine, and my machine shop has gone through the learning curve on the FE blocks already. I have some 25 people interested in the aluminum already and another 25 interested in iron. By this I mean I have that many names on file. I imagine that once I begin taking deposits takers will come out of the woodwork. Guys on the Cleveland forum have been loyal and patient supporters of my efforts so far, and so I would like to offer my promised discounted price to Cleveland forum members.

Those who want aluminum are looking at $2600.00
Those who are going to want iron are in at $2100.00

I would like to see a 30% deposit on the discounted price. When these things start to ship I will be completing the sale according to the order in which deposits were made. I believe to be fair that I must refuse to take full payments.

For members of the Pantera International Forums:

Any member of the PI forums who is willing to make the 30% deposit shall receive the same discount that was offered to the members of the Cleveland forum, this includes members who expressed interest previously AND any members who have just made the decision to purchase a block.

Tod Buttermore
tlb427@sbcglobal.net

Members interested in purchasing the new block, please read the above post.

I need clarification of what machining will be done to the block ??? I'm up for giving him a deposit on the Aluminum version. Whats the address.

Ron

Ron,

the subject has been covered here (above) and on the Cleveland forum. The block will be delivered to you requiring the same amount of finish machining as would a block from Ford Racing, Dart or World Products. The block is not ready for assembly, because an engine shop would not want it that way. Engine builders prefer to perform their own final machine work.

You may want to review the posts above, or on the Cleveland forum. Beyond that, I'd recommend you contact Tod directly at his email address:

tlb427@sbcglobal.net

Tod is out of town this weekend, so if you email him, he will not respond immediately.

cowboy from hell

George,

I knew that but up until the time when it was said they were getting sold thru a Engine builder I thought different. But I went back and reviewed ..thanks for clearing that up.

Ok I;m ready ...just in time ... my 351W SVO block has not been touched yet ... do you think my SCAT crank and rods would fit the C block .. it would right ..I ordered in with C mains.

Ron

YES!!

I'm up for sending a deposit .. where do we send it.

Ron

Tod hasn't given out that info yet.

He went out of town this weekend.

The best thing to do is email him, tell him you're up for the deposit, and wait for his reply.

cowboy from hell

I got a response from Todd and he says he will take deposits when he has enough "for real" takers. Apparently out of all those previously interested only 10 have stepped up so far.

This has gotta be a great option for Pantera owner's to keep with a true 'Cleveland' and the pricing is better than a Dart or Fontana aluminum block. I might not build it straight away, but I'm damn sure I'm gonna get one while they are going who knows when this opportunity will come around again. Heck, if I could afford it I'd get two.

It's apparent that he isn't making any until he fulfills his minimum, in advance. He hasen't stated what that number is.

It sure looks pretty. Aluminum blocks even look pretty broken. Too bad there isn't going to be any durabilaty proving before you put it in your car.

LOL the thought has crossed my mind ?

Ron

It's a fantastic deal for $2600. I don't think I can finish everything up in a shop for another $500 though. I think more.

Take Note...

Tod Buttermore has a NEW email address:

tlb351@zoominternet.net

This is the latest from Tod:

Times Up

At this point I have 16 people interested in deposits. That's pretty good, I think, especially considering that they all want aluminum. I will be in touch with everyone regarding contact info.

Tod

Any update ??

Ron

Hi Ron,

Without contacting Tod directly, I've asked around, and nobody had any information beyond what we've already discussed.

take care, George

Tod has a new email address:

tlb427351@yahoo.com

Thanks G !

Another brief update from Tod:

Quote: "The fixtures are being made. I can't do much until the fixturing is ready. In the mean time I am working on several other projects. A couple of deposits have been sent in. I am working on setting up my company and getting space to run this thing out of. Harmony Castings is very busy. I fall asleep alot."

Is there an expected delivery date for the first blocks? Aside from the initial orders, I think there are many of us "sitting on the fence" waiting to see how these turn out. If all goes well I might just sell my left nut for one of these blocks.

quote:

Originally posted by ParaPantera:
I might just sell my left nut for one of these blocks.

You won't get much for it. There are a lot of them on Ebay this time of the year.

Forget about gold, diamonds and platinum Santa, I want aluminum.

Any word on these blocks yet?

Ron,

Tod has not made any further public announcements, I have no additional news. You may want to write him an email at tlb427351@yahoo.com

I need my 'luminum!

I corresponded with Tod a couple of weeks ago when I sent my deposit in.
He estimated he was 4 to 6 weeks out on the first blocks to go to two
engine builders for testing. He subsequently made the following post:

"Anyone have a 50 taper horizontal? Minimum travels 28 cubed. Coolant
thru needed. Helical interpolation. Rigid tapping not necessary.
Preferably within driving distance of Youngstown, Ohio. I need to
have blocks machined. I need other work quoted too. Please do not
respond in this thread. Email me privately. tlb427351@yahoo.com"

So it looks like he has castings that need to be machined into finished
blocks. Tod is a man of few words. Another poster explained the above
means he is looking for a horizontal machining center and that 28 cubed
means 28 inches of travel in all 3 axes (most horizontals will have a B
axis meaning the table spins to allow 360 degree access). 50 Taper is
the size of the tooling in the spindle. 50 tooling is big heavy and very
rigid for heavy cuts and fine boring. Thru coolant means coolant is
pumped at relatively high pressure (100 psi) thru the spindle to get
directly to the cutting tool as opposed to flooding with coolant via an
external nozzle.

Dan Jones

Here's another update from Tod.

Quote: "I'm ready to start machining but can't get near a machine. The machine I was going to have time on is busy with my former blocks and has been sold on top of that. My fall-back machine is busy through March. I keep taking a back seat to everyone. I have been talking to my bank about financing my own machine so I can machine blocks when I want, plus all of the other machining that is coming my way."

"In the mean time I am doing other work to fill my time and I will be talking to an iron foundry today about casting a sample iron block or two. This will allow me to have both aluminum and iron ready to machine when I either get machine time or get my own machine. Trust me people, I'm more sick of waiting on other people than you are of waiting on me. I have 14 or 15 deposits on aluminum. I don't want to keep these good gentlemen waiting and wondering. (The money is all sitting in it's own dedicated account)."

I saw Tod has posted that he is getting his own mill in about two weeks. Just thought Id let you guys know.
Tod's Newest
Jeff

This is the latest news from Tod linked in Jeff's post:

Quote: "About two weeks and my machine will be here. I am buying a Mazak H500/50. In the mean time I am scheduled to sample iron blocks. When the machine arrives I will be cutting aluminum and iron blocks."

quote:

I am buying a Mazak H500/50.

A little web searching shows that to be about a $50,000 machine.

Larry

That looks to be a nice twin pallet machining centre.
I used to program those things for a living !

Gentlemen,

Tod has hit another delay beyond his control on his way to providing the new 351C blocks. Tod is tired of having to disappoint his customers in delaying filling their PAID orders for his 351C block, he's frustrated by this latest development.

If you have been keeping up with Tod’s posted updates, you know that he has been frustrated in his attempts to have his new blocks machined commercially by others. So, he decided to buy his own CNC machine. He had one located, and put up the funds. Here is an outline of what has happened since.

Tod provided funds to a Dealer to purchase a Mazak H500/50 from a shop (Seller).

The Dealer stated the Mazak would be available in a couple of weeks, based on information the Dealer received from the Seller.

The Funds from Tod were transferred to the Dealer. Delivery was anticipated.

The Mazak would be up and running now except for the new set back:

The Seller’s new machine needs repairs, and will not be available for delivery for up to five weeks. In the meantime, the Mazak is still in use by the Seller. The Seller is delaying the sale of the Mazak until his new machine is delivered.

The owner of the Cleveland Forum has spoken with the dealer and verified this information.


George

GREAT NEWS!

The latest news from Tod:

Quote: "Okay. After all the crap I've endured, the machine I found to replace the one I bought a couple of weeks ago is here. Sitting on the shop floor ready to wire up and level. Everything went off without a hitch."

"On top of this I got the oil slinger and rear seal tools through UPS today (they are perfect) and the Erson roller timing chain set I bought just to use for checking for any possible clearance issues in the front of the castings. It looks great."

"And it didn't even rain."

Tod

Not to be a stick in the mud here but who is going to the durabilaty testing first?

I have a depsoit on one, so I guess I'm one of the 15 or so 'durability' testers for the first batch of Al blocks.

How do we "season" analuminum block? Besides salt and pepper, that is.

That thing is going to squirm around like sillyputty?

I'm sure the big billet main caps with the splayed bolts will help but does anyone know?

Wow! Now I got myself thinging? Look out Doug is thinking again! These blocks aren't going to be too stable for a stroker crank now are they?

I plan on doing a little bit of durability testing myself.

I know when we made the parts for the Corvette we used to artificially 'age' the aluminium. You will find this will be done to the al blocks, to help with stability.

Durabilty or Seasoning .... durabilty ? send it to me and I will put it in my pantera and test it for you .... LOL .... seasoning can be done with a cleaning oven at any engine builders shop or put it in another vehicle and drive it.

Ron

Seasoning is a minor issue with aluminum since it does not retain the residual stresses during the casting process like iron does. Those of you you have an aluminum block coming should not consider it an issue.

The Latest News From Tod:

Quote: "After assembling a mold Friday and having the block poured on Saturday, and waiting all weekend for results, I saw the first iron block come out of shot blast this morning. So far, so good. Aside from some expected burn-in, the block looks good. No holes. Solid in all the troublesome areas. The foundry will work on clean up and this afternoon I will take pictures of the cleaned block. I was very pleased with the results. Now I have aluminum and iron samples, and a machine that is up and running. Get ready boys!"

Tod

More pictures

Another update from Tod

Quote: This is the block that was pictured in an earlier post. It has some casting issues. My friend Tom Hoover pulled the distributor out of a 1970 Cleveland that was in a wrecked car. He has had it for quite a while. Only has about 10k miles on it. We talked about using its parts to build this block up stock and see how it goes.

The issues I ran into were:

1. Casting was somehow made .100 too thick. I adjusted machining to make it only .080 heavy. Because the casting is too thick the distributor pocket is machined in deeper than designed.

2. I screwed up and forgot the oil galley boss metal in the valley, so you can see the weld put in before machining. It looks bad but doesn't leak. The pattern has been modified, and is ready for new castings.

3. Because I changed a drill diameter and angle, I nicked the passenger waterjacket when I drilled the front oil passage from the front main to the main oil galley. Block fill will fix it for our test build. This will not be an issue from here out. I added stock to the corner that was nicked.

4. I forgot to put the distributor hold down bolt boss in the cross-over water passage core box. What an idiot!!! I have already altered that. This block will be welded and fixed by hand. Pretty easy fix.

If anyone sees anything that raises red flags let me know. I'm anxious to get blocks to the guys waiting patiently for their product. The iron guys are starting to email me.

BTW splayed caps will be the norm in production.

Sorry for taking so long.

Tod

Very nice looking piece. When you undertake a project like this there are bound to be some issues. Thats what the test block is for. I say great job Tod. There are going to be some very happy individuals out there. I look forward to seeing these in some Panteras in the near future.

Blaine

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have had cores at the foundry for at least 2 weeks now. My only(non-Cleveland) customer has had a quote owed to him from the same foundry for at least a month. A friend of mine is in the process of setting up a foundry. I was at the new facility yesterday. He thinks he is 3-4 weeks away from pouring metal. If I have to wait that much longer where I am I will have him pour my block. Needless to say, he will be doing my work anyway. I can't even get a return call from Quaker City Castings. When I am looking at sending hundereds of thousands of dollars of work somewhere, I expect returned calls.

In short, I am still being held up by other people. This is why I used to have the whole shabang when I was in Indianapolis.

Tod

Thanks for the update. I think that I understand how he feels.

Those things are beautiful.

Let me ask this now, are the main webs on Todd's block thicker like the "Nascar" blocks? Looking at the pictures it's hard to tell.

The latest update from Tod as of 12/13/08:

quote:

Since I have been waiting for 2 months to get a casting from Quaker City Castings, which caused me to miss having one displayed in Barry Rabotnik's booth at PRI, I am going to use the cores to cast an iron block. My friend is pouring iron now and is working on the aluminum furnace setup. There is no sense letting the cores sit any longer when I can at least make an iron block with the new revisions. I am truly sorry for the delay on the aluminum side of this. I never saw this coming.

Fortunately, I have been able to feed myself by doing some work for Snyder's Antique Auto. While forced to wait on castings I have been developing new parts for him and fixturing up to machine sveral others. I plan to add a Model A block to the mix sometime next year, after I get the C block up and running.

Times are getting tough and I will do my best to offer my Cleveland at the best price I can for you loyal supporters. You can't really know how much I appreciate the patience, support, and concern for my health that you have shown to a guy you don't even know. (BTW, I feel terrible but at least I'm alive and can work everyday until I hit the wall.)

Oh yeah, almost forgot. At thanksgiving my brother-in-law asked what I was going to do with the first sample that had some flaws in the casting. A friend was thinking about building it, but my brother-in-law said he wouldn't think about it, he would do it. So...he now is in the process of fixing the block and is going to put it in a Cobra kit he bought a couple of years ago. When he came to the shop to get it he looked like a kid in a candy store. He never stopped smiling.

Tod

The latest update from Tod as of 1/13/09

quote:

Due to the delay of getting into production I am going to reduce the price of the first 15 aluminum blocks to $2300.00.

I understand that the economy is bad and I will do what I can to help Cleveland enthusiasts. Three individuals have had to cancel their aluminum block orders due to the long wait and other factors that have developed in the mean time. I have sent their money back as they requested. This allows those of you who I told to hold your money to step into the 3 open spots. If I have to order more sleeves to expand the first run to 20-25, I will do it.

I am as anxious as any of you to get this project up and running. It is my goal to start producing blocks soon so that the drag racers on the Cleveland Forum can have a block for the new season.

Tod

They do look good
Very tempting !!

Those blocks look great. Wish the economy was better right now also. I would love to have one of the aluminum blocks. So when is Tod going to design and cast his own head for the Cleveland? I know...let him get the block done first.

Wow $2300 is a steal, compare to the cost of a Fontana or Dart block. With all the development costs there can't be any margin in this for Todd.

My deposit went on one of the first 15, now I'm wondering whether to get another, one for each Pantera!

Julian

anyone have tod new email? his tlb427@sbcglobal.net does not work. thanks

try

tlb427351@yahoo.com

Another update from Tod as of 1/18/09:

quote:

The new foundry had me order two more sets of cores so we can pour two aluminum blocks after we pour the first iron one (first for him). I would like to have something for the show in Columbus, at least it is my current plan. I don't think Trumbull Metals will be holding me up for months on end like Quaker City Castings did. I was going to mold the iron casting Friday 1/16/09 but they ran out of part A binder chemical which will be delivered 1/19. I had my camera ready to take some pics of the place and molding when I got Corey's message about the delay. He is really ready to work on these things. This next week we will be getting the process started.

I have also secured a boring head for the cam bores. I am working with Big Kaiser to get the tools ready to go. This will allow me to bore the cam and cranks within 5 or 10 thousandths so the builders will only need to hone them to size. I also have Trumbull casting a Third OP machining fixture for the blocks. This fixture allows proper placing of the cam and crank from both decks.

If anyone feels complelled to verify anything I am saying with Trumbull Metal Specialties you can reach Corey Jarvis at 330-349-4505 or email him at corey@trumbullmetal.com. I worked with him on the FE blocks when he was at another foundry. I believe that foundry is still making the FE blocks for Pond when he needs them.

BTW, Pond re-set the NHRA A Stock record with one of our iron blocks.


Tod

Trumbull Metals is pouring blocks. This one is iron.

When was this iron block poured? How did the machining go? Everything turn out O.K.? Any word on when the aluminum blocks will be trialed?

Very interesting to say the least.

It was poured last week. I have not machined it yet. I checked it over and did not see any reason yet that it will not make a good block. Ofcourse, the machinist(me) could screw it up. Let's hope not. I have two sets of cores for aluminum blocks already delivered to the foundry.

Tod

This is great stuff Tod! We look forward to more updates as things progress.

Tod's iron block after its been machined

nice looking block...it would be interesting to put one of Tod's new iron blocks and an original 351c block side by side to compare quality. My bet would be for Tod's block.

An update from Tod 4/11/09

quote:

Quoting Tod Buttermore:

Yesterday we finally poured the first aluminum at Trumbull Metal Specialties. I was the test subject. We poured one block and 2 aluminum Model A high compression heads. The heads are for Snyder. WOW. Very nice castings. We used a graphite mold wash that gave the block a very nice finish right out of the sand. Everything looks good. I will machine it asap and have somebody finish machine it and build it. We're getting there boys.

Tod

Here are the pictures of the aluminum block poured at Trumbull Metal Specialties on 4/10/09:









Great Work Tod ... man I'm getting excited!

Wow! I'm in love. Ain't it a beautiful thing?

I know it has probably been stated previously, but what would be the weight of the aluminum engine complete, with aluminum heads, compared to a cast iron block and heads?

I would agree, both of Tod's castings are beautiful things -- I wish him the best!!!!!!!

Mark

Around 150 ponds lighter then the iron. Put on an aluminum flywheel and about another 23 pounds there. So about 170-175 pounds lighter.

Nothing to take lightly...or is there a pun in that?

Any news on the blocks and how its coming along?

A July 20th Update:

quote:

I have two sets of cores going to the foundry to cast two more aluminum blocks, I ordered some main caps from Kenny at ProGram, sometime this week my line boring shop is supposed to bore the iron block that is to hopefully compete in the Jeg's EMC. I will also have them line bore the aluminum sample so it can be built by somebody. As soon as I can I will machine the two aluminum, if they ever get cast.

The economy is supposed to be bad. I can't get anything done in a reasonable time. I'm so busy I can't see straight. Foundry's busy. The shop doing my line boring laughs at this bad economy stuff. And we're in Youngstown, Ohio!! I just depends on what you're doing.

Tod

A July 25th Update:

quote:

I was moving along just fine (I thought) towards having a block in the Jeg's EMC. The block was slated to be line bored yesterday. I ordered main caps last week. On Wednesday I figured I'd call and see how things stood. Not good. Not only did Program not have the front caps (which I knew when I ordered them) they didn't have material to knock them out. It was supposed to arrive yesterday. That's obviously not going to work. This is not a gripe against Kenny so don't take it that way. He has me on the fast track and will get them asap but not fast enough for the guy who wanted this block to get his work done in time. So...even though we will be boring two blocks when the caps come in, the first iron block will not be at EMC. Words can't express my disappointment.

In other news...I'm STILL WAITING on the two aluminum blocks to be cast. Gettin' mighty sick of this. Anyone want to buy a Cleveland project??

Tod

An October 16the Update:

quote:

After getting the main caps and getting the block over to the line bore shop I finally got it back yesterday. Yeah, already. 2 months? Zippin' right along. Anyway, it looks good. This block is spoken for by 351C forum member Dragboss and we just talked about his building it. I'm pretty much donating it for a build so I can get info. I am going to machine two aluminum blocks next week. Durabond sent cam bearings. I'm only waiting on one more item. Thanks for the patience you guys.

Tod

An October 20th Update:

quote:

I just got back from the auction at Canfield Cylinder Head. I hated to see my friend John have to shut down. I was able to buy anoher CNC machine with Snyder which will be dedicated to his heads. This will free up my horizontal to get to blocks immediately after they are cast. Thanks for your patience.

Tod

Are there any more updates? Will blocks become available some time?

Tod has delivered a block to an engine builder; the builder has not made any actual progress on the block yet.

The last I heard the builder is developing the code for his computer operated milling machine to perform the various block prep machining operations. The builder plans to assemble a maximum effort, high output Cleveland and then run it hard on the test stand to see how it holds up. Tod is more interested in seeing how well the assembly goes, he wants to determine if there is anything he needs to change in the design. He's anxious to go into production and fill the orders of his pre-paid customers who have been waiting so long.

Another block was slated for delivery to a drag racer for assembly, I haven't seen any news on that end.

We're getting close. Anything could happen to delay the progress of a grass roots entreprenurial project like this. Barring any further problems, 2010 may be the year the new 351C block goes on the market.

-G

March 10, 2010 - Production Begins!

quote:

If all goes well I will be starting to machine the 4 blocks I have in the shop today. The first OP fixture is already in the machine on one of the pallets while I run some small parts for Snyder on the other pallet.

I have spent the last week or so modifying the fixtures so I can get them in and out quickly. I am also working on main cap fixturing and programming. I am doing as much as I can as fast as I can. I have one machine down with a spindle drive problem so that doesn't help anything.

I will have pics asap.

Once I verify the aluminum castings I will order more and be on the way to producing the first 15 for those who have been so patiently waiting. The iron blocks look good so I ordered two more. Mark tells me there are no issues in the machining, so here we go.

If you are interested in an iron block in the near future please let me know. These first 4 are already spoken for and I know of several more that need to go out to waiting buyers. I'd like to know how many to make.

Tod

March 16, 2010

quote:

First operations complete. So far so good. While I have the first op fixture in I plan to machine first ops on 2 iron blocks. I had to take a few days to make some parts for Snyder so I had to let blocks sit for a few days.

After cutting 2nd ops I will know whether or not to order a bunch of aluminum castings.

Tod

April 1, 2010

Latest pictures of an aluminum block











-G

It beautiful. I'm in love.

WOW....I want one!

I need an explanation...there is a notch between the cylinder bores on the top of the deck...how does the head gasket seal that?

quote:

I need an explanation...there is a notch between the cylinder bores on the top of the deck...how does the head gasket seal that?

Looks like extra casting material and still needs to be finish machined, which would clean that up. My guess is that all critical mating/sealing surfaces such as this need to be final machined, and are probably cast with extra material so any casting imperfections are sure to clean up in final machining. Just my best guess.

Looks to me like the sleeves have been set low in the block. I presume to allow for final zero decking machine work, although the rest of the block does look machine finished.

I can't wait for mine to arrive....

Julian

Yep that makes sense....if you look really close the sleeves do appear, but when looking at where the cylinders siamese, you can't see the detail. The sleeves don't look that thick...maybe an optical illusion not having a picture looking straight down at the bore. For some reason I've always thought cylinder walls were much thicker than they really are, well at least the clevelands. Glad you're getting one Julian. I'm jealous.

I'm too lazy to look at the rest of the thread...how big a bore and stroke will the block take?

It appears to me there are no sleeeves yet .. and the ridge on the top is where the top of the sleeve fits in the grooove then the block is decked.

Ron

Tod's explanation

Quote:
______________________________________________

"Just in case some people want to know...the sleeves are not in this yet. The sleeves are flanged at the top .100 thick and the block is recessed .097 to allow for standard crush/expansion and whatever else goes on with sleeved aluminum blocks. I am leaving the sleeves out for the show in Columbus (All Ford Swap Meet, Columbus Ohio, April 2 & 3) so people can see what's behind the iron sleeves. The sleeve OD is 4.25 and there is another .100 or so of metal behind the sleeves. That gives you an idea of how stout the iron will be.

Tod"
______________________________________________

Well you can see how many aluminum sleeved blocks I've played around with!!! So this a dry sleeve block without the liners. Makes total sense now. Thanks very much

Hi all I went to the swap meet today in Columbus and got to see the block first hand. I took a few pics, I will post them tomorrow. We just walked in the door and Im beat!
But to the point this is one awesome looking piece of hot rodding equipment. Chatting with Tod was a real pleasure, I must of had his attention for over a half hour and there was a group of people waiting to have there time with him, so Kim and I then toured the rest of the swap meet. Til tomorrow.
Jeff

thanks for the pictures Jeff,

Tod's a great guy isn't he.

May 6, 2010

Tod has had no luck getting blocks poured at the foundries he normally does business with, i.e. the foundries he trusts to do the job. They are too busy with large orders (making big money) to stop and cast a few blocks for Tod.

Here's his latest update:

quote:

"First, thanks to everyone for their support. I am continuing to forge ahead. Thanks to those who emailed or called offering to help the project along.

Second, I have talked to two foundries about castings and will be getting some blocks as soon as cores are ready. I ordered 4 more sets of cores. That makes six sets. Four aluminum and 2 iron.

Third, I sleeved one of the aluminum blocks and it looks good. Pressure test revealed a very small porosity leak that can be fixed easily enough.

Fourth, I am going to have to do what I can when I can until I can get a loan for another machine. Since I am not on any bank's or government list of acceptable persons to throw money at I will have to continue to finance my own way, which isn't all that bad, since I hate debt.

Fifth, I have hired a helper to run Snyder parts and with both of us working 10 hours a day I don't see any end to 6-7 days a week any time soon. Please know that I am doing as much as my health allows.

Tod"

May 19, 2010

Sharing another update

quote:

2 iron blocks were molded today and I picked up the pattern to have two other foundries make aluminum samples. 4 sets of aluminum cores are to be ready by Friday. I had cores at the foundry for 2 months and I assembled two molds inside of 2 hours this morning.

I'm trying to buy another machine which will be for blocks only. I am proceeding as opportunity allows. A replacement tool for cutting the oil slinger arrived two weeks late so now I can cut first operations again.

Tod

August 27, 2010

Sharing another update

quote:

I'm plugging away at getting castings and getting out what is machined. Things are crawling along but at least they are moving. I am waiting to hear from MME on the two iron blocks Mark is building. I have 2 aluminum blocks going out for initial aluminum builds and 3 more aluminum blocks in the shop to machine. I am to cast 2 more iron next week. I have managed to pare down my work backlog to mostly just heads for Snyder and C blocks. It looks like it will be a busy fall and winter. I hope to have most, if not all of the deposit blocks out by year's end.

I have been working 6-7 days a week and there is just no end to available work and new projects. If my health wasn't in the crapper this would be easier but I'm playing with the hand I've been dealt and doing the best I can. Thanks for all the support and interest.

Tod

October 19, 2010

Sharing another update

quote:

One of my iron blocks purchased by Mark McKeown was built dyno tested and shipped to a customer. I spoke to Heather and she didn't indicate that there were any issues with the block I needed to correct.

An aluminum block is being built right now in Kentucky. Still trying to get more castings.

Tod

quote:

The First New Cleveland was run for the first time back in September. The Date was actually 9-11-10. We ran the engine on the dyno for approximately 2 weeks. We did many heat cycles and different kinds of pulls and testing as well as verifying over that long period on the dyno. The engine was off the dyno at the end of September. The First Buttermore Cleveland has been successfully run and tested.

Mark (MME)

December 14, 2010

quote:

I dropped off the main cap pattern today. Pretty soon I will have sample castings for my ductile main caps. I will post pics when I get them.

Cores are on order for more blocks too.

Tod

-G

January 4, 2011

quote:

You can't see it, but I'm actually smiling today. I haven't used those muscles in a while! I'm machining another aluminum block right now and I have 2 more in the shop.

I'm still waiting on cores for more castings ... oops, now I'm frowning again.

It's been more frustrating than anyone can imagine but my stubborn stupidity and dread of failure just keeps me plugging away. Hopefully things will gain some momentum this year.

Happy New Year everyone.

Tod

-G

The first aluminum "Cleveland" using a Buttermore engine block

The motor displaces 408 cubic inches and is equipped with an MME modified Jessel cam belt drive and an ATI dampener. It shall be topped by CHI 3V heads (11.0:1 compression ratio) and fuel injected using a CHI single plane manifold modified for Ford injector bungs. It will be installed in a 1970 Mustang used for drag racing, and driven to and from the track on the street.

photo courtesy of Don the owner

-G

Are these blocks ready for production to be sold? I am interested in purchaing the aluminum block

Hi Tarik,

The blocks are not available for immediate sale at this time, but we are hoping the project will gain momentum this year. Tod has had problems with some of his early castings, and has had to make adjustments to how his cores are assembled, and how the castings are poured. Its a learning process. But it seems he has those problems behind him now. Tod continues having difficulty getting his cores manufactured, and getting his blocks cast.

The first blocks shall be delivered to those who supported this project by paying in advance. Tod is also hoping for feedback from those who receive the earliest blocks to determine what if any problems there may be in his design. At least two motors have been assembled using Tod's blocks, one with a cast iron block and one with an aluminum block. Testing of both the cast iron and aluminum motors has not revealed any weaknesses in the design so far.

I am waiting for production to begin in earnest myself, but that time is not here yet. Hopefully later this year.

-G

Thanks so much for the reply

Looking forward for the production of this fine engine block.

Regards

Tarik Richards

George, I an about to begin the installation of the lifter bore bushings. I noticed that in the prior pict of the first Buttermore Alum. engine the bushings are slightly out of the bores by about 1/8" inch. The instructions stated flush. How deep shall they be driven?

The bushings in the picture were done by MME. Mark makes his own bushings, he doesn't use Denny's kit. Mark must have had a reason for wanting the bushings hanging out of the lifter bores, but I can't say why he did it. He probably manufactured longer than normal bushings that would allow him to do that.

You should follow the instructions provided by Denny Wydendorf.

-G

Lifter bore bushing kit? Really? Tell me more. Where. who, how much?

If you run a roller hydraulic lifter on a cam with lots of lift, the higher bushing contains the oil in the lifter. Otherwise, the standard cleveland bore may not be tall enough, depending on the bleed hole positioning in the lifter body as well, and permit the oil to escape from the lifter body while it approaches the cam lobe's peak lift.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
... Lifter bore bushing kit? Really? Tell me more. Where. who, how much? ...

Yes really. Its a duplicate of the kit Ford sold in the '70s and '80s. Denny has been drag racing Cleveland powered Super Stock Fords since he and I were both kids. He's a big 351C enthusiast, and an asset to other 351C owners. The kit is $299 without bushings, $399 with 16 bushings.

His web site: Wydendorf Machine

-G

quote:

Originally posted by JTpantera:
... Otherwise, the standard cleveland bore may not be tall enough ...

Ah yes John, but that's not a standard block. That's one of Tod Buttermore's blocks. First assumption is that the extended bushings must have something to do with lifter compatibility. BUT Tod made the lifter bores in his block taller, to accomodate roller lifters.

Mark McKeown marches to his own drummer sometimes. That's why I avoided second guessing why he extended lifter bores that were already taller than those of the production block.

-G

Great...thanks G.

February 10, 2011

Another update from Tod

quote:

"Two sets of sample ductile iron main caps were cast Feb 4. There were a couple of flaws in three castings but they are good for setting up machining."

Tod

-G

May 31, 2011

Another update from Tod

quote:

1. I am in the process of making 3 iron castings.

2. I am trying to set up to pour my own aluminum castings. I already have the aluminum furnace, now I just need space. I haven't heard back from the landlord for over two months about renting more space so I am looking at another location. Not only do I have enough block interest to warrant setting up to pour aluminum, I have other work that I can add to it, which helps justify pursuing this way around the lack of foundries willing to pour my blocks.

3. I am looking into getting another horizontal machine, mainly for blocks.

4. I still have at least a year of work back-logged.

5. I am back to a no help situation.

6. I was the topic of a horribly botched news-paper article that may as well have been intended to under-mine my whole livelihood.

7. I am still forging ahead dispite all hinderances and obstacles.

8. I am stupid and stubborn as ever.

The saga continues

Tod

July 12, 2011

excellent news from Tod!

quote:

I just pulled the third aluminum block out of the machine. I have more aluminum castings ordered and things look good with the machining. After the next 8 blocks it will be time to start on the next batch of customers.

I really appreciate the patience of the current depositors who have stuck with it through all the delays. "Thank You" just doesn't seem like enough to say.

I have no doubt that the iron will take off soon too.

I have told dozens of people to keep their deposit money in hand until I get things going smoothly. That being said, would it be possible to get an idea of how many more people here plan to order a block? I would like to take such info to the bank as I try to get another machine just dedicated to blocks.

Tod

Here's a picture:

Wow.... virgin, naked aluminum blocks.... I'm getting a woody

Engine PORN

Pricing, both of iron and aluminum, looks really interesting to me

Not feeling like going through the entire thread (17 pages already), is about all a 1 to 1 fit? I mean things like crank, water pump, distributor, heads, oil pan, etc...? I still can go out shopping for the regular Cleveland parts stuff, and all is just bolt on?

Anything specific one would need to reckon with when going with one of these blocks. I did understand some minor machining still needs to be done, but other than that?

Cleveland parts are a direct bolt-on, this IS a Cleveland block. It has Windsor oil passages however (main priority). The lifter bores are extended for roller lifters.

Pricing of future sales shall increase, currently being quoted at $2450 for iron, $2850 aluminum.

For that price you get a basic machined block that has 3.99 cylinder bores (iron or aluminum), has the crank rough bored to match the Pro-Gram caps (.020 under sized), has the cam roughed (allowing for finish work to whatever the build requires), and the lifter bores are just drilled to .812 which allows them to be finished by a builder or bushed as some will no doubt prefer.

-G

George,
I'm interested in Tod's aluminum block and have a couple of questions.

Are the liners removable and what are they made of?

Can the block be delivered using a different liner material? Without liners?

What is the expected delivery time for orders placed now?

What is the current price?

When is the price increase expected?

Thanks,
Mark

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

Are the liners removable and what are they made of?

The liners are made of iron.

are you asking if they can be removed after they've been pressed in?

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

Can the block be delivered using a different liner material? Without liners?

These are questions you'll have to ask Tod

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

What is the expected delivery time for orders placed now?

This is another question you'll have to ask Tod directly, although I suspect his answer will be that he can't predict the delivery time.

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

What is the current price?

Any future orders will be at the higher price ... i.e.$2450 & $2850.

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

When is the price increase expected?

Its already happened. The $2850 price of the aluminum block is incredibly inexpensive, but there's probably $2000 worth of finished machine work needed, so keep that in mind.

-G

quote:

Originally posted by ehpantera:

When is the price increase expected?

Its already happened. The $2850 price of the aluminum block is incredibly inexpensive, but there's probably $2000 worth of finished machine work needed, so keep that in mind.

-G

I found that out as well. Good to get it out there.

Hi,

Is there an update on the alloy Cleveland block?

Thanks,

Matt

Hi Matt

I haven't heard anything in a while

drop Tod an email at:

tlb427351

at yahoo

dot com

-G