Oil Pressure??.. What say you??...

standard oil pump = volume and pressure - will be fine for a street 351C

I have a mechanical VDO gauge and run about 75 on start up, 65 or so once warmed-up and at speed.

Lower at idle, of course.

Larry

Not sure what setup I have but with the engine at full operating temp on a hot Atlanta day the pressure is a shade under 30 pounds with a 750 - 800 RPM idle and near 80 pounds at any RPM over 1700. On cold start up idle it is at 80 pounds. Haven’t had drive gear problems in the last eleven years. My oil pressure sender is in the stock position on the back of the engine. I think they recommend 10 lbs of oil pressure per 1000 RPM.

Mike

Contrary to what I have been told ..I run a High pressure spring and a high volume pump with 5w 30 and I have 40 at idle and 80 at high rpm and have no issues with distributor gears.

Ron

The rule of thumb is you need 10 psi for every 1000 rpm. 7000 rpm, 70 psi.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with only 40 at 7000 with any engine.

Now if you are going to run a Cleveland to 7000 or above it is highly advisable to sleeve the lifters and that will fix the oiling issues for all intents and purposes.

When people talk about Clevelands having high speed oiling problems they are talking about over 7000 rpm. Even the old Pro-stock Clevelands that Gapp & Rousch ran were just stock block Clevelands with oil restrictors in the lifters. Those were 8,500 rpm engines.

With all the talk about the oil pump relying on the roll pin in the distributor shaft how many do you actually know of that have failed? If it does you will loose the ignition gear drive and the engine will shut off anyway.

Run a TRW HV oil pump. It will give you 80 psi cold and never drop under 65. If you are running a hydraulic lifter camshaft you could use that pressure anyway to try to approach the advertised lift on the cam.

The set up I have is... Melling 84A oil pump, Relief Spring # 22850, and Heavy shaft #22565... These parts came under the best advice I could find, I'm sure it will be just fine. I really need to find a quality roll pin for my dist gear/shaft, I don't want an "off the shelf" chink pin.

That's all good in theory but how are you going to tell the difference?

Go to an oiling specialist like Aviaid. Tell them your story and do what they tell you, is the best advice I can give you.

I think you are over thinking this and over reacting. In changing out the existing pin you are more likely to do harm then not.

Use a Motorcraft distributor and leave it alone. If you go to crap like Accell or Mallory you are more likely to find generic Chinese parts in them.

Just my opinion which is one of 300 million in this country alone.

Over thinking and over reacting is probably the nicest thing anyone could say about my approach to this cat. I can't really afford this car and I am trying to be very careful, correct everything on the car and get it right. I have been trying to make any improvemnet to all systems that would make the power plant more comfortable. I guess at some point I need to just let it ride and go with it. It's been over two years since I have driven this car. I'm ready to get on w/it...

The stock engine is the most reliable component of the original car. The 73-4 US cars are noticible more dependable then the first ones.

This had to do a lot with Fords involvement in the Pantera.

The two piece valve in the original engine will get you eventually if you put enough miles on it.

The solid state Motorcraft ignition was not available quite yet to the car and it adds a good deal of dependability to the car if added. "Taxi tested tough".

A lot of the problems with the wiring stem from the difficulty in servicing it without stressing the harness.

The stock, as delivered '74 car is difficult to improve reliabilty on.

Recent developements with electronic updating will improve the car 1000%.

"Updating" the engine, if you know what you are doing", will give it more go power.

But think about what some people are adding. For instance, aftermarket roller cams? Those are strait out of the drag racing parts books and have lousy dependability in everyday use.

The reason many put this stuff in the car is because they want to increase dependability and the result can be exactly the opposite. They wind up shooting themselves in the foot.

This car is hard to work on and the simplest things can be expensive to do.

You want to make the car so that you NEVER have to go into the engine again. Changing the oil is all you want to have to do.

Stay away from aftermarket distributors and go with a Motorcraft electronic distributor and brain and you will have gone along way towards increasing the dependability of the engine, including the oiling drive.

quote:

the roll pin in the distributor shaft, how many do you actually know of that have failed?

Off hand, two.

Dennis "Mad Dawg" Antenucci's new MSD at the start of a Silver State. His only, I believe, DNF.

And about 2003, on the trip home from Vegas, I watched as Cal's mostly stock Pantera slowed and pulled off into the center median with a roll pin that sheared while driving down the interstate. Hour later, he was back on the road, courtesy of the PCNC on-the-road, never-leave-a-man-behind philosophy.

The snapping roll pin IS NOT an urban myth.

Larry

First of all MSD right there is your problem. The racers insist on running them...and changing the failed parts...and changing the failed parts, etc, etc, etc.

Lord they have eyes yet they do not see.

OK. Lets presume that the Pantera that you speak of Larry is a Motorcraft. Got some more?

I'll be you a nickel that every one of the failed Motorcraft distributors was previously taken out and apart and rebuilt or blueprinted by a local yokel?

Of course if this is so common a problem, where are the ARP chrome moly replacements?

I don't get it. How do you guys sleep at night? After all there COULD BE someone hinding under the bed or in the closet. That's been documented too?

how many do you actually know of that have failed?

Mine failed but it was due to a chunk of permatex which someone put inside the female thread and then screwed in the pick up ... found it compressed in the oil pump ... I do agree with Doug should a double roll pin be installed ..because if something like this would happen again ... what would be the weak link ..the shaft if the pin dosent shear off ?

Ron

My roll pin failed earlier this year about a month after getting the car. Not sure why (maybe I have a disintegrating nylon coating on the timing gears which the oil pump picked up?), but yes, the distributor gear had obviously been apart and redrilled before my time and a spiral pin had been inserted. I put a conventional good quality (i.e. it came with various quality certification numbers) hardened roll pin in have driven approx 2000- 3000 km since then and it hasn't broken again. But I carry a couple of spares in the car permanently :-)
Cheers, Tim.

Forgot to say I have Ford Duraspark distributor and 'brain'.
Cheers, Tim.

I bet you that every one that has failed has been apart. The implication is simply that they haven't been reassembled properly.

If you are going to buy a rebuild Motorcraft distributor buy one from a certified Ford rebuilder. If you get it from Autozone...you gonna be in da' zone.

Actually I bought a new one from Ford Racing.

You wanna talk about aftermarket crap? The teeth on the camshaft for the distributor drive broke off of the cam before I installed the thing.

It was a CompCam and they replaced it free to me but they said they weren't responsible for that and it was just a courtesy so I would come back.

I guess they were gonna blame it on Ho Chi Min or something?

They said that they don't inspect every cam blank. The number at that time was 1 in 5.

Someone has got to start to pay people again and forget about the CEO getting a 25 million dollar bonus. This crap has got to stop.

...I have had the drive pin shear on the Distributor because it was a cheap roll pin that was harded as hard as Glass! I replaced it with a Higher Quality Pin and added another pin through it's center. No Problems as yet. Here is a short lesson for you guys on the Physics of Hydraulics!! There is NO such thing as A High Pressure Pump!! Because the Pump Does NOT produce PRESSURE! It only Produces a FLOW of Fluid!! 'They' are a HIGH FLOW Pump! The Pressure comes from the 'Resistance to Flow'! Hence, The tighter the Bearings(and other componants)...(Including but Not limited to the FRICTION of the Oil to the Walls, Bends, Fittings, Etc. of the System 'Conduits'(Hoses,Tubes))...the Higher the reading of the Pressure Gauge! The more worn the Bearings (and other), The Lower the Readings. So, the Pressure Gauge Reading is NO indication of the Efficiency of a Pump; You need a 'Flow Gauge' For that! In My case; I have ALL of the Pumped Oil Flowing 6 Feet (-10 Size), to the rear or the Pantera, to a Double Oil Filter and a Oil Cooler (Mounted at the Rear Screen) with an Electric Fan that comes on when I hit the Switch, that use to be used for the A/C Fan(Now Removed Forever). Then the Oil Flows back 6 Feet, in -10 (.5" I.D.) Size Stainless Hose to the Block, to the Adaptor where the 'Original' Filter use to mount. My Digital Oil Pressure Gauge 'Sender' is Mounted in the Original Position at the Rear of the Block ALONG with a Size -8 Stainless Hose going to the Port in the Block near the Fuel Pump(Known to You as a 'By-Pass'! There is NO Starvation of Oil over this 12 Feet of Hose because The Entire Length is FILLED with the Oil and the Force is TransMitted 'Continuously' along it's Entire Length!! Which Happens to be the Definition of the term Hydraulics! Now, I have installed the 'Melling High Volume(Flow)' Pump; I run Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil 20W-50 (Because it has the ZDDP additive). At Start-Up, Idleing, I get 51 PSIG, when Hot I have 49 PSIG at Idle. Cruising I see 53. At Higher RPM I see 53 (havn't really been over 4000 RPM with this gauge as yet). High Pressure is Not as Important as the Flow! Because it is the FLOW of oil the Removes the Heat and Debis and 'Allows for Fresh Oil to Enter!! 30 PSI is Plenty to provide a 'Full Flow Film' to prevent 'Metal to Metal contact', at which point this is known as 'Boundry Film'(when the 'High' points on the surface of the Metal First Make Contact)! Your answer is: A heavier 'Bypass' Spring in Your Oil Pump Does NOT increase the Pressure!! It RAISES the Maximum Pressure that must be attained in order for the By-Pass Valve to 'Crack Open'! The Increase in Pressure comes from and Increase in the Restriction to Flow;such as a Clogged Filter. OR at a Higher RPM the FLOW will be increased. And at a Given Restriction this would Result in a Higher Pressure reading of the Gauge. The increase of Pressure does NOT come from the Pump itself!! Higher RPM equates TO Higher GPM (Gallon Per Minute). Higher Flow at A given Ristriction will determine the PRESSURE! The Higher reading on Your Gauge is a Result of the Total 'Resistance' to that INCREASED Flow!!! Period!!
I am up at Delta College finishing another 'Machinist' Degree, now completing the Final Class, which just so happens to be 'Industrial Hydraulics'. Out of 24 Students I am Number One in the Class! So take it for what it's worth! All the best! Marlin...

...Doug You would lose that Bet! The pin that I found sheared, was on a Brand-New, Never disassembled Distributor. Hard as Glass it broke into 3 pieces, 1 in the center of the shaft and 2 on each side of the Gear! You ARE correct about the Engine imediately Stopping! I was cruising up Highway 99 at 80 MPH, in the Far Left Lane, when the Engine Just Quit! I imediately Knew it was the Pin, because the Oil Pressure Gauge was at '0' Zero. I put In the clutch so as Not to Rotate the Engine with No Oil; and coasted with the momentum. I managed to 'Throw' The Cat over Three lanes of traffic and onto the Right-Hand Shoulder. Sitting in the Pantera with Cellphone in hand, I called AAA and was picked up on a Flatbed Transport not 20 Minutes later. On later inspection I found Nothing in the Oil Pump Gears! Must have been the 'Blast' of Power on the Entrance ramp onto the Freeway just before the Breakage...

I never heard anyone complain about this except the Pantera guys?

Marlin. Was it a Ford distributor?

I'll pay up. I only ever bet a nickel. Send me your address.

So... should I drive another pin inside the factory MSD pin??? Should I contact MSD for a better pin???... Should I contact a vendor for a hardend pin??... Should I just run the car and not worry about it??...

...PLT-1 couldn't hurt to add a smaller pin inside, You might sleep easier at night; or drive a little more relaxed. Doug! Your right again! It was NOT a Ford Distributor, it was a New Mallory Unilite! It had a very cheap 'Scroll' Pin, like a piece of spiral/coiled up Sheet Metal. Keep Your Nickle! You can buy the Pretzles and I'll buy You a Beer if We should ever Meet-Up!...