@rocky posted:Roland…
You don’t mess around!
Chuck
I like speed….🤪
doing the Powersteering, painting on the car for the fuel filler mod and making the seal between wheel well and engine bay, got my new front axle nuts(fiat 850) and buttoned that up,.. and that’s my Friday …👍
Well, reading through all the instructions from the manufacturer and the distributor in the US I have to say… hmmm
both combined gives me an idea what to try to do but the task at hand is I have to cut bits and pieces of the welded bracket under the dashboard and it has to be correct or I will be screwed!
the templates are similar, but definitely not the same, the Netherlands provide one to one scale templates, US distributor templates are definitely smaller than one-to-one, but it gives you an idea I guess!
looking at the pictures from the US importer (he has the whole dashboard removed, which I really do not want to do) helps! His pictures also show what has to be trimmed and I can figure out why… I hope the end result of my trimming is more - well, How do I say that “neat”!
The explanations on the different pictures what to do probably makes sense to somebody already did the job once before… Which I haven’t!… So kind of “watch out there is something look what what” moments happening! A few arrows and pointers would be really helpful what to look at….
Now. I will go and use the knowledge obtained by the instructions from both, the pictures and figure out. What’s the right way!
it is definitely not “just follow the instructions and you will be done”! it’s like somebody gives the kit and says drill -A- hole… -more information?-
And off we go..!!!
a little bit more information would be great… Draw an arrow!!!!
I didn’t see any information about how to clock the joints - which I read is a biggie!
I’m just pretending I’m starting from scratch… The one fixed point we have are the front mounting points! There was no instruction how much of the bottom plate has to be removed it was just drawings and some cutting going on so I’m gonna go and measure.
these are the mounting points, and what comes right after it…
and here is the side view:
And that’s what we have right now
Read… I’m playing with a bits and pieces and check them out and compare them and here’s what I found:
Powersteering assembly pictures in there US importer instructions is not the same power steering assembly as the one I got from the Netherlands!
just to keep them apart, let’s call the one US and the other NL (Netherlands)
US has a tube that is clamped on, and you can adjust the slot for the steering lock… You can turn it! NL has no adjustment. It’s all one welded piece!
the more I dig into it it seems like that there was a earlier version and a later version?!??
Later in the instructions the clamp is gone..
it seems like the mounting brackets were different too… I’m not hip about this one..
i’m not sure if we are talking about the same thing here..
there will be no reason to smash anything!
I will not go any further into this whole thing! It makes no sense to me! Maybe I have upgraded model… Who knows..
at this point I’m gonna abandon the US instructions!
I spent now a few hours wrapping my head around this whole thing - aside from taking bits and pieces apart and straightening the front wheels I didn’t accomplish much. One thing I noticed was that when I turned the shaft on the power steering it feels like a big bearing filled with grease, heavy grease but nothing I would say it isn’t real resistance at all! And at the same time when I did that I ask myself, does it have a center position???!! I guess not….🤔
Digging into the NL version:
let’s call this The zero (0) position..
original steering wheel straight front wheels pointing straight.
and I’m going to install the power steering the same way clocked.!
The pivot axles of the joint are 90° to the ground (steering rack side) and perfectly horizontal (steering wheel side)
Keep in mind, the instructions you call the “US” manual is actually Gerry Romack’s Great Lakes Pantera’s installation guide. It includes some modifications to the original unit, including one of mine! The “U” shaped mounting bracket with the steel tube going through it is something we came up with when installing my unit. Gerry liked the idea and adopted it. This is not the way any unit ever came from EZ Electric. What’s in the Dutch manual is the way it’s designed to be.
@davidnunn posted:Keep in mind, the instructions you call the “US” manual is actually Gerry Romack’s Great Lakes Pantera’s installation guide. It includes some modifications to the original unit, including one of mine! The “U” shaped mounting bracket with the steel tube going through it is something we came up with when installing my unit. Gerry liked the idea and adopted it. This is not the way any unit ever came from EZ Electric. What’s in the Dutch manual is the way it’s designed to be.
Yes! The idea with the tube is a very good one! I will do that as well and give him / you credit for it! But as it shows on the pictures, the power steering assembly has changed from the variant he is using in the instruction manual! The front mounting points are higher on my unit than the variant he used And it would be a shame if somebody would start cutting the structure in the front for no reason! Because of the front mounting points being higher (steering tube NOT protruding into the horizontal structure) the template is not correct anymore. I understand what he did for the application, but it’s not relevant for what I have received from EZ Powersteering…
Upgrading the pressed electric contacts and soldering them is also a great idea to ensure dependability!
let’s see how the NL version is doing…
All of these systems are adaptations of EPS from other vehicles. That makes installing them into a Pantera a little bit of an adventure and one should expect the unexpected.
You could even argue that current production cars are using a mostly "off the shelf" EPS that is easily adaptable to a production vehicle.
There simply are EPS systems commonly available in European production vehicles and likely other non-US markets that are not found in any combination in North America so it isn't surprising to me that the "Dutch" offering is a little different.
The plus to all of this EPS technology is that so far they all seem to apply themselves very well to this application and do not over boost like many of the US hydraulic PS systems seem to do.
The biggest challenge in building one for the Pantera is finding a "doner" that will physically fit into the extremely limited space available in the Pantera as simply as possible. Everything else seems trivial by comparison.
I would be shocked if any current "super car" was built without one now. It is such an obvious addition.
@panteradoug posted:I would be shocked if any current "super car" was built without one now. It is such an obvious addition.
Doug,
McLaren uses hydraulic power steering in all of their cars.
@davidnunn posted:Doug,
McLaren uses hydraulic power steering in all of their cars.
But the hydraulic pump is powered by an electric motor not by the engine, correct? Aka Porsche did..
@panteradoug posted:All of these systems are adaptations of EPS from other vehicles. That makes installing them into a Pantera a little bit of an adventure and one should expect the unexpected.
You could even argue that current production cars are using a mostly "off the shelf" EPS that is easily adaptable to a production vehicle.
There simply are EPS systems commonly available in European production vehicles and likely other non-US markets that are not found in any combination in North America so it isn't surprising to me that the "Dutch" offering is a little different.
The plus to all of this EPS technology is that so far they all seem to apply themselves very well to this application and do not over boost like many of the US hydraulic PS systems seem to do.
The biggest challenge in building one for the Pantera is finding a "doner" that will physically fit into the extremely limited space available in the Pantera as simply as possible. Everything else seems trivial by comparison.
I would be shocked if any current "super car" was built without one now. It is such an obvious addition.
Don’t know if it’s true… But I heard this EPS is from a Fiat panda…
I looked at the Powersteering from the Fiat 124… The new version and the electric part is part of the steering rack - very tight very neat..
I did run into a little snag…. somebody thought it would be a good idea to make it a solid steering shaft.. a bolt run through the sleeve and shaft… plastic clip missing in action…. WHY 😱
I think I got an idea now how to make a rattle free but “ breakaway” connection… the polyurethane glue for windshields.. I got 2 holes to squeeze some in the relief… don’t touch it let dry 😅
but that’s final assembly!
Prep more..
@LeMans850i posted:Don’t know if it’s true… But I heard this EPS is from a Fiat panda…
I looked at the Powersteering from the Fiat 124… The new version and the electric part is part of the steering rack - very tight very neat..
EZ Electric buys their EPAS motors from a manufacturer in Japan, that supplies auto manufacturers, such as Nissan. This allows them access to the controller source code, etc.
I personally have done what some would call extensive research into this subject and can tell you that there are more then a couple of manufacturers of these units.
They are not at all limited to Japan. They are worldwide and many are not accessible to our US markets at all. They are made for just about any kind of three or four wheeled vehicle you can think of that needs to be steered.
Generally speaking what we see here in the US is very limited offering to what is available worldwide. However, what I found is that in my case new manufacturers, with few if any exceptions do not sell, or will not sell just one unit to you. Most you need to purchase in batches. Some as little as 10 or 12 but most in the 100 units at a time range.
So that if you are a custom builder, applying an EPS to your one specific application, you are really kind of limited to finding a used one and making it fit if possible.
Most of what is available here in North America is too big to fit into a Pantera. I had to go to the UK to find one and at that, needed to source it from a right hand drive vehicle, a Toyota Yaris, so that the motor was located on the left side of the column. The US version of that vehicle is as expected, left hand drive. The right hand drive was exactly the opposite configuration.
I personally have "built" three EPS units and was able to sell two that were too large to fit to "street rodders" where there was much more room under the dash for them to fit.
The electrical installation is actually quite simple and straight forward. Controllers are available from Bruno Antunes in Portugal @Brunossteering.com.
Unless you have the time and energy available to screw around with these systems, which most will not, I'd suggest that you consider using one of these already "re-engineered" kits. When it comes down to the value of your time and correcting the mistakes that you made, their price is really a bargain. That work has already been done by the sellers and you do not want to hack up your Pantera needlessly.
Here is what I did so far:
left side… looking what the cutout is for, position relative to the front mount bolting holes!
template does not go forward for enough because of vertical structure
marking cut line..
Establish cutout in the middle… there’s no template provided for it!
transferring holes from the dashboard, structure,
enlarging on the powersteering unit
tracing what can stay, but has to go..
I must admit that even though there was a noticeable stress level felt, it was a fun and enjoyable experience. I hope you are enjoying it too?
