Pantera Prices

You�re preaching to the choir here! This has been discussed a number of times on the forum and many disagreed.

You do not see the Ferrari group criticizing people that ask and get reasonable prices for their Ferraris.

Although I love my Pantera and I think most all of my Pantera buddies are great, the de Tomaso group are sometimes their own worst enemies.

As a group I think we could do a lot more to promote the value of these awesome de Tomaso cars and I try to never miss an opportunity to do so!!!

Flame on!

Like a broken record...

Produce documentation showing DeTomaso has the racing pedigree as Ferrari and then you can demand Ferrari prices. And basically DeTomaso has had one hot sports car, the Pantera. Ferrari has had scores of them, hence they are much more widely known. This is not rocket science. Pretty easy to figure out why DeTomaso prices are what they are.

I think Pantera prices are relatively low and will remain such especially for the highly modded cars because of a couple factors:

1. Panteras have become known as RUST buckets.

2. Used car competition at higher prices run against a line of great cars from Porches, Ferraris to Lambos.

3. The buyers of Panteras are a realtively select breed and most new buyers are looking because of the comparable low prices.

4. Due to no other DeTomaso cars being manufactured to generate publicity, none of today's generation know what a Pantera is...hence the congregations at the fuel pumps and parking lots.

5. Many people actually do not want to have to work on their cars buying in this price range...at least with a Ferrari they can find an authorized shop in most major cities.

Therefore, unfortunately, the potential buyer market population for a higher priced Pantera is extremely small...best case resulting in SLOW sales velocity. I do think that efforts at posting informative websites like Mike's do result in a higher sales price because it promotes an overall appreciation of the genre. Also, the Adler's website of used cars does a better than average sales job of describing the value of their cars which indirectly inflates the value of other offerings as well.

I can tell you that the great people of the Pantera community make buying one possible with their enthusiastic desire to help new buyers entering the market...they can overcome many of the fears we have of the horror stories (RUST). There are true enthusiasts in this community from the webmasters to the Mike Drew's and Dave Doddeks who make us newbie buyers welcome and comfortable with our investment. What a unique and wonderful family of gearheads!

Mark
#5660

[This message has been edited by MSchweibold (edited 05-21-2003).]

It doesn't matter what kind of car it is, you will NEVER get back all the money you've put into it. That's just the way it is, it's not just Panteras. And if I was going to spend $65-100K on a Pantera, I'd want it built to my OWN specifications, not yours.

YOUR MISSING THE MESSAGE--AGAIN
WE ARE NOT COMPARING FERRARI'S AND PORSCHES WE ARE TALKING DETOMASO I PERSONALLY COULDN'T CARE FOR RACE HISTORY, SHOW ME A LAMBO WITH RACE DOCUMENTATION. WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL EVERYBODY IS NOT TO BE AFRAID TO ASK FOR A PREMIUM PRICE. WE ALL KNOW WE WONT GET BACK EVERY PENNY, BUT LETS NOT GO FOR BROKE I'VE SEEN GUYS LOSE 50K THAT THE PURCHASER WAS BRAGGING ABOUT AFTER THE PURCHASE. AND LETS FACE IT IF YOU WANT A NICE CAR YOU GOTTA PAY, WETHER YOU PAY THE SELLER OR THE VENDOR.

Supply and demand, supply and demand. Not many people know what a Pantera is or have heard of DeTomaso.

If you put $100K into any show car, expect to get 1/2 if lucky. Ask any person at a car show. When people let go of cars, they want to let go, and are willing to do so at a loss. Offer full price and the car will sit, unless someone absolutely loves what you have done to it, and has the cash to boot! Just look around, you will see the high price Panteras still sitting there. Kind of sad, but true.

What i see is.......people take out second's on their homes to buy these things and then dip into savings to do all the... have to do? up grades and then if one thing goes wrong in their life and Money is needed, the Toy/Toys are the first to go and at a Bargain price... the Ferrari guy (in my life's experience) can afford to sit on a FOR SALE car and if it sells it sells..he doesn't need the money from that sale to go on to the next car/project.....Family, friends First Toys are for those who can afford them.

I have read all the replys to this thread.
The bottom line is people fix up their
cars because they enjoy it.They know when
they do this they will lose money.

If people want an investment buy income
property.Just because you spend alot of
money on your car does not mean that the
next person to buy it should give you
what you put into it!

HEY ROBERT,
ARE WE ON THE SAME PLANET? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE VALUE OF AN OBJECT, YOUR TALKING ABOUT SECOND MORTGAGES AND FERRARIS. YOU SOUND LIKE YOUR TALKING FROM EXPERIENCE? THE FRIENDS I'VE MADE IN THE PANTERA COMMUNITY DONT SEEM TO HAVE THOSE PROBLEMS, AS A MATTER OF FACT WE ARE ALL QUITE COMFORTABLE HERE IN SO. FLORIDA AND THE EAST COAST IN GENERAL. BUT IF YOU NEED A FEW BUCKS GIMME A CALL I'LL GIVE YOU A FEW DOLLARS FOR YOUR FERRARI!!!!!

Yes you are correct, we are not from the same planet but not for the reasons you think, nice to see your doing so well? May your Big Time So.Florida wallet Always be as Fat as your head God loves you ..Maybe?

First of all I love the Pantera...one day I will own one! A few years ago I had to pass up a pantera that was a solid 8-9 on the scale of 1-10 for $25,000. I met the previous owners and got history of the car.It had been restored to about 95% orig. The car could be bought, started up and driven away on its own power and would give many many care free and reliable years of service,the paint and interior were flawless and you could have eaten off of the underside of the car! I thought that price was right on the money.
I've looked at and continue to look at Panteras that maybe rate around a 4-6 and the asking price is always around $25 to $35,000!when in fact based on its condition it should be more like $12,000, That to me is crazy! These cars are advertised as needing rust repair,some need paint/body work,the interiors have been hacked up by previous owners not to mention wiring...you all know what I'm talking about...Just because it's a Pantera doesn't mean it's a priceless exotic...Like I said at the begining of the post I love Panteras and will own one some day...but at a price the car is worth and some of these prices need to be a little more realistic!

In reference to Pantera prices, take a look at the Autotrader on line. There's a '74 with 98 miles, all original, for an asking price of $150,000! (maybe a misprint?????)

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Originally posted by Fran:
First of all I love the Pantera...one day I will own one! A few years ago I had to pass up a pantera that was a solid 8-9 on the scale of 1-10 for $25,000. I met the previous owners and got history of the car.It had been restored to about 95% orig. The car could be bought, started up and driven away on its own power and would give many many care free and reliable years of service,the paint and interior were flawless and you could have eaten off of the underside of the car! I thought that price was right on the money.
I've looked at and continue to look at Panteras that maybe rate around a 4-6 and the asking price is always around $25 to $35,000!when in fact based on its condition it should be more like $12,000, That to me is crazy! These cars are advertised as needing rust repair,some need paint/body work,the interiors have been hacked up by previous owners not to mention wiring...you all know what I'm talking about...Just because it's a Pantera doesn't mean it's a priceless exotic...Like I said at the begining of the post I love Panteras and will own one some day...but at a price the car is worth and some of these prices need to be a little more realistic!

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Husker, I always find the asking price of things real interesting and even some times laughable. The asking price of the car you note is probably correct. But as we all know, it will probably sit and sit and sit. However, this one, as well as any Pantera where the "asking" is more than, lets say $60K or so, will most likely just sit, no matter how much money has been put into it. The alternate selections are too great after $50K or so. That is never to say it will not sell. All it takes is someone like Michael Jackson with bid bucks to just tell one of his aids, "get me a Pantera, I don't care what it costs, just go buy the best you see". Panter ownership is a ture melting pot of various owners, but I am not quite sure if Michael Jackson, with his silver glove and arm band would quite fit into the typical profile rumbling down the street.

I have read these postings with interest. It has been my experience that most owners sell their cars out of financial necessity and generally the sale is time sensitive. We have only had a few sellers that are willing to wait until they receive their price (assuming that the price is somewhat market correct). What we are seeing is that the majority of buyers do not have much knowledge about the marque, condition of cars, weak points, upgrades and so forth. As a result, when weak cars enter the market at low prices, these are often times used as a "comparable" as compared to a car that is very strong and worth significantly more. Very high end cars, cars worth 40-80K will in fact sell if the quality of the workmanship exists. We have sold numerous Panteras in this price range and in fact, they represent a value when considering the expense of rendering a high quality paint job, body work, powertrain and interior. The people that can make the stretch to these superior cars are often times wiser than the person who is new to the hobby and purchases an eBay special or the car that is marketed for $25,000 or less. As a buyer of Panteras, there are few that I actually buy due to body and mechanical deficits. I spoke with a gentleman last week who purchased a car shown on eBay from a Texas seller for around $15-17K. His initial joy was quickly decimated when he discovered end stage rust throughout the car and an engine that didn't even run. G-d only knows what the condition of the ZF is! How much money do you think will have to be spent to bring that car up to even average condition? Better yet, the car may be better off broken up for parts. As a final comment, I have been aware of a strong undercurrent that runs through some Pantera owners of almost resentment towards sellers of Panteras that are priced at the upper end of the market. I have never understood this logic and I am confident that the people I refer to decide to sell their car, that they will have no hesitation to seek a premium price. And why not? Just look at how a strong Pantera compares in price to an early 308 and what about the Porsche 928? Vipers as well. Their prices seem to fall like an anchor! When a person pours $30 grand into a 928, what do you think they will recover upon sale? Compare that to a Pantera after upgrading. Those people who were smart enough to buy a Pantera have made very, very good investments in terms of the fun quotient and what you may receive upon sale. Since we have opened PI Motorsports in 1996, I cannot recall any comparable period of time that there has been more interest from buyers who want good cars. I predict that we are only starting to view the beginning of a major price escalation of these cars. What do you think? Thanks for listening, Paige, Linda and Dave Adler

AAAAHHHHH THE VOICE OF REASON
THANK YOU----DAVE, LINDA, PAIGE

quote:

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Originally posted by Admin5:
I have read these postings with interest. It has been my experience that most owners sell their cars out of financial necessity and generally the sale is time sensitive. We have only had a few sellers that are willing to wait until they receive their price (assuming that the price is somewhat market correct. I predict that we are only starting to view the beginning of a major price escalation of these cars. What do you think? Thanks for listening, Paige, Linda and Dave Adler

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In responce to the first issue, that is exactly my point. I could not understand anyone wanting to sell their car after putting $100,000 into it. They are building it that way to their liking, and to keep it. When they go to sell it for whatever the reason, it is just a matter of life that they may ask over $100K, yet only get $50K on a good day. But yes, for those who are willing to wait and wait, the day may come where they may be able to get a little more.

As for esclating prices in the future, I am a little concerned about this recently. Most know, I have two Panteras, a stock car and a show Group 4, and I love both of them (just ask the wife where I spend my time). However, the stock cars seem to be starting to show their age in style recently to me. For some reason, over the past couple years it seems like the style of new cars on the market has really been changing, almost to the point of some average cars looking pretty exotic. To me, this change just seems to be making the average Pantera look old. Maybe it is just me, I don't know. Could be some mid life stuff where I just need Prozac or something. I am ashamed to say that if I had $90K to spend, I would consider buying a used F355 instead of a well restored stock body Pantera. What the heck has got into me!

Being new to this forum I have read with interest Lou Agro's concern over pricing. Lou, remember me? You answered my "looking for" ad, sent me a couple of pictures, and spoke with me a couple of times regarding your AGROVADER. You have a beautiful car that of course would cost upwards of $130m to duplicate. Although my choice; for the $80m you mentioned the price would be, is a 2003 Carrera 4S. At the $90m range a better buy than a $80m Pantera. 3-5 years from now would the AGROVADER be a $80m car? Would any Pantera's prices hold or actually increase? I really don't care because I am looking for the right car to have and enjoy. The money is not the issue for me. I have now looked at many $35m-$53m Panteras and am still dissapointed with the examples being offered. The Pantera Community should take a lesson from us NCRS guys (National Corvette Restorer's Society). Maintain your cars in the condition they are restored/modified/upgraded, know the true history, keep your documentation together and be a little nicer.
"This is just a general observation."
I have had the pleasure of being in the Corvette Hobby for 17 years, owned 6 Corvettes, and presently own 2 Stingrays:1972
(Which is for sale/trade for a Pantera)and a 1965. The people I have come across in the NCRS are more eager to help/sort out/go beyond the norm as a whole, than the Pantera Community. I hope that my opinion can be changed as I get more involved with this marque. I plan to keep trying and to spend time with people involved with Pantera's.
I want the car, I want to be involved; although it's more difficult with the offerings and sitiuations than what I am used to. Prices are always an issue although a great car's pricing will be a good value to the right buyer. The market and demand sets the price for the car.
I welcome anyone's opinion or help with this.
Dave 818.807.4289 BOXXBOYS@socal.rr.com

We have been seduced in the past by such cars as the Viper, Corvette and even a very wicked, twin-turbo Stealth. Why we have remained true to the Pantera since 1974 is based upon the following: 1) We love true mid-engined cars and nothing else will do. The experience of 500+ horsepower shoving you in the back is matchless! 2) We are Ford fans through and through. 3) We worship Italian style, especially when it is created by Tom Tjaarda 4) We want to participate in vintage racing and modern cars are barred at the gate. 5) We show our cars in Concours like the Concorso Italiano and cars like Porsches and Vipers have to remain in the parking lot. 6) We root for the underdog and DeTomaso was definitely an underdog compared to Ferrari and Lamborghini. It is fun to be different. 7) Pantera owners are the most knowledgeable people we have ever met when it comes to their cars. You wouldn't catch most Ferrari owners dead changing their own plugs or even a flat tire. 8) Great clubs and events to support the marque. 9) Plenty of vendors to supply parts and advice. 10) We believe a Pantera is a great investment in that you may get your money out when it comes time to sell if you bought right. When we use this 10 step evaluation to measure other exotics, they just don't compare as well in our minds as our favorite car.....the DeTomaso Pantera.
Thanks for reading, the Adlers