Rewiring the Entire Car - Painless Wiring Kit

I am not the expert on everything and I do not think that I am. I have worked myself up from dumbass to smartass. I am trying for wiseass.

I think Ron is refering to galvanic action on the copper wiring and aluminum connections.

I personally haven't seen it on the harness in this car but I think that maybe some of the corrosion issues, if that's the right term. on the switches and terminals like in the fusebox might be from that chemical interaction.

I think if you look at the harness you really won't find specific references to FoMoCo on it but I think by the 73 model year it is a Ford product or at least a Ford Engineering spec'd assembly.

From what I can see it is automotive grade electrical copper stranded wire. Is it heavy? Well someone just mention 40 pounds.

I'm not here to start trouble or tell people what they are doing wrong. They will discover that themselves eventually.

I just can't help but react to this overwhelming conclusion that every newbie SEEMS to come to that the original Detomaso product is no good and tear it out and throw it away. The Pantera just seems to be cursed forever with that?

I can understand where someone is coming from with lightening up the car for racing, etc. But for a street car that just wants to be brought into this century with electronics, Pantera Electronics is a really excellent place to go.

I just wish Jon would join in when it is appropriate on some of these electrical issues in the car.

True these are all everyones personal decisions to make on their car, and that's the way it should be. I personally am just trying to help. Trying to help in keeping the Pantera in a recognizable configuration as to what it was originally built to and curtailing this negative reputation on it as being the most modified car ever manufactured.

Ok. I'll stop now and keep out of this. It is not my place to tell anyone else what or how to do it. This is just my own very bent perspective on things. See ya's.

The biggest advance in modern wiring is actually the insulation which will withstand UV and degradation over time.

Doug, I appreciate your posts and your view on the situation. I'm not saying that the products from Pantera Electronics are not good or people shouldn't use them. I'm just saying that for my particular situation, rewiring the whole car was a better option. For others, replacing just the components is ideal. It comes down to personal preference, that's all.

I have no problem with what you guys are doing. There is truth to everything being stated here.

The age limit to the insulation on the original harness is a very real issue at some point.

In construction we are seeing very real wiring hazards with wiring that is 50 years old. When the stuff gets pulled out, the rubber insulation just crumbles off of the wire. These houses are time bombs ready to go off.

It is wise to replace a harness at some point. You are both all apart, so now is as good as ever.

It is hard to know what UV has done to these things over time as well.

My point I think I made? The harness in the Pantera is not the problem. Particularly the later cars.

The peculiar way the accessories are engineered into the car and the switch loadings is another thing altogether.

The ignition switch for one thing needs relief and the fuse box is another disaster.

I found of particular interest, and I'll bet that I am the only one that noticed it, the self diagnostics built into the Pantera Electronics fuse box. It warns you if the load is abnormal and has a warning buzzer.

Best of luck to both of you in your race car endeavors. What class do you intend to race these cars in? The vintage Trans-Am cars interest me a lot.

I think I'd rather go racing with a '67 Mustang coupe then a Pantera?

I have not consulted with my friend but I think he was refering to tin coated copper wire and tin coated connectors to prevent ...what I see on the Pantera and not my Mustang ... black wire ... I guess the connector can be replaced or soldered on ?

Ron

Interesting.

I don't see it on mine. I'm always working on the electric in it.

I would like to hear what he has to say on it? I'm always willing to learn. It is the first I have heard of it and the harness itself isn't showing increases in resistance.

I have had issues in my 68 Shelby with certain wires in the harness itself but not the Pantera yet.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

Best of luck to both of you in your race car endeavors. What class do you intend to race these cars in? The vintage Trans-Am cars interest me a lot.

I think I'd rather go racing with a '67 Mustang coupe then a Pantera?

My particular car competed in the Silver State for a handful of years, so I'd at least like to continue that tradition in the future, as well as compete in various wheel-to-wheel vintage group racing. It is yet to be seen where the car actually goes, but I'm going to continue with some HPDE events to get my last levels of licensing done and then seek out some competition racing. I was big into autoX years ago so that's another avenue for fun when we're not doing road course work.

quote:

There's no insulation falling off the harness

Panteras don't have rubber covered wires. They have thermoplastic covered wires. Ford stopped using the rubber cover wires in the mid 1950's. I think 1955 was the last year.

Probably the best wire that you can use is aircraft wire. It is silver plated copper wire with a teflon based high temperature insulation called Tefzel.

From DuPont: "DuPont™ Tefzel® is a modified ETFE (ethylene-tetrafluoroethylene) fluoropolymer available as pellets or as powder for rotational molding. Tefzel® combines superior mechanical toughness with an outstanding chemical inertness that approaches that of Teflon® fluoropolymer resins. Tefzel® features easy processibility, a specific gravity of 1.7, and high-energy radiation resistance. Most grades are rated for continuous exposure at 150°C (302°F), based on the 20,000-hr criterion."

John

hey aaron, where can we see more pics of your car?

quote:

Originally posted by tajon:
hey aaron, where can we see more pics of your car?

There's a few pictures from last year here:
http://www.fquick.com/garages/.../Pantera/1973/16882/

I don't have any good recent photos, but nothing has changed except the interior (which is currently gutted for the wiring).

OK PanteraDoug, your wish ...
Wire:
GPT, TWP, HDT, SXL, TXL, GXL wire types are for automotive and marine applications. (SAE J-1128) I prefer the marine since there are more strands per AWG and it's tin plated. These have PVC insulation and have a long life and still good in a Pantera that hasn't been abused.
Most of the wires size is correct for the load with the exception of the fans. Example, if the fans have been up-grade to Spal the current can be as high as 13 to 14 amps, then larger AWG wire is necessary. The Pantera wire size seems to be metric, I measured it but that's difficult to do because of the strands.
Terminals:
The terminals are standard 0.25 quick disconnect tab style, base metal is tempered brass with a 20 microinch plating of tin. Originally they have a shinny or dull silver appearance, but shortly after plating tin oxide forms on the surface. Tin oxide provides a barrier and prevents further corrosion. The tin oxide is displaced by the spring force of the brass when connected to the mating tab. The quick disconnect has preformed reliably for about 50 years.
Pantera Electronics:
I thank all of the Pantera owners that have supported me on this forum, they understand the lengthy technical information that explains the operation and benefits of the products. Not everyone reads that stuff because it's not fun tire smoking Pantera porn, but it is the reason that it works better than anything else and is reliable. The Headlight Motor Controller is easy to install and reduces the operation current operation by half.
The Radiator Fan Controller is solves cooling issues ... those Frankenstein Relays can't even come close to. My customers tell me that something is wrong with their temp gauge needle because it doesn't move after it reaches operation temp.
Many novice relay promoters do not realize that a relays require a suppression device when controlling motors. The capacitor that was used on the ignition points to stop arcing is same reason that relays need suppression for the contacts. The diodes that are used to stop engine run-on reduce fan motor speed by at least 10%, since air flow is an exponential function of the motor speed, air flow is even less.
I don't post here anymore, I don't want sound critical of a particular effort by a Pantera owner to make it his own car. If I see advice that breaks the laws of physics I may help an owner by a private message. Most of my customers aren't on this forum routinely or not at all. Typically they are maintaining or converting back to a stock Pantera and want the non-invasive nature of the products and want the reliability and improvement.

"A Hudson" understands:
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...274/m/2690048635/p/2

I'm not sure what that proved, but as nice as the PE products are, I'll be honest - when I'm 6 inches from the door of another car at 165mph I could care less that my fuse box is designed to bolt into the stock fuse box location. This is a race car, it will be driven to its limits 95% of the time.

AGAIN - I'm sure that the PE products are quality items, that they work and fit well, and that alot of engineering went into them. For someone who wants a stock appearing car with updated electronics, those products are great. FOR MY SITUATION, they didn't serve any real purpose so I just didn't need them. Also, they were considerably more expensive than the route I took. For a few hundred bucks I have a perfectly working Pantera, with 100% new wiring, fuses, modules and relays. It's not stock, but not much on my car is stock at this point so I'm not worried about that.

We can go back and forth about this all day long, but the bottom line is that if PE was not making these products, our cars would not all be sitting on the side of the road, rusting away. They'd still be working, and we'd all be just as happy using products from other vendors. PE products are great stock replacement components made specifically for the Pantera, but it's ridiculous to suggest that those products are the only solution to re-wire an old car.

I think 6 pages of this is enough, I'm sure my position has been well defended. As I said, I'm spending the winter prepping the car for next season. I'll come back to post pictures from the track when the weather gets warmer.

Until then, enjoy whatever products YOU choose for YOUR car. I'll be enjoying mine, rebellious wiring and all. So far I haven't received a message from Jon3613 so I must not be in danger of killing myself yet. Go figure.

I left my harness alone but added an extra fuse block powered from the hot alternator wire. I use this to power the components I have added. dual sucker fans, twin a/c blowers, I pod amp, and my headlamp raising motor. I will add this. I had a 64 Vette that would not start hot. I finally replace the wire going to the starter solinoid. The old wire had gotten stiff. Word has it that as wires age and current is drawn through that they build resistance and loose efficency, where you put power in and get less out.

covered

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDude:
I'm not sure what that proved, but as nice as the PE products are, I'll be honest - when I'm 6 inches from the door of another car at 165mph I could care less that my fuse box is designed to bolt into the stock fuse box location. This is a race car, it will be driven to its limits 95% of the time.

AGAIN - I'm sure that the PE products are quality items, that they work and fit well, and that alot of engineering went into them. For someone who wants a stock appearing car with updated electronics, those products are great. FOR MY SITUATION, they didn't serve any real purpose so I just didn't need them. Also, they were considerably more expensive than the route I took. For a few hundred bucks I have a perfectly working Pantera, with 100% new wiring, fuses, modules and relays. It's not stock, but not much on my car is stock at this point so I'm not worried about that.

We can go back and forth about this all day long, but the bottom line is that if PE was not making these products, our cars would not all be sitting on the side of the road, rusting away. They'd still be working, and we'd all be just as happy using products from other vendors. PE products are great stock replacement components made specifically for the Pantera, but it's ridiculous to suggest that those products are the only solution to re-wire an old car.

I think 6 pages of this is enough, I'm sure my position has been well defended. As I said, I'm spending the winter prepping the car for next season. I'll come back to post pictures from the track when the weather gets warmer.

Until then, enjoy whatever products YOU choose for YOUR car. I'll be enjoying mine, rebellious wiring and all. So far I haven't received a message from Jon3613 so I must not be in danger of killing myself yet. Go figure.

You're right. It's enough. I should have know better then to get involved at all.

Sorry everyone.

So tell me why doesn't anyone just sell an exact replacement for the Entire Pantera harness with the upgrades ... for an electrically challenged person like myself ... for me it would be easier to install an HVAC System in an 80 room apartment building then try to rewire a Pantera. LOL

I have a guy that is building exact replica harnesses for Shelbys but they are expensive. $2000. He wants to see a Pantera harness to see if he is interested in making one. Anyone want to volunteer to send him one?

Up here it is ....

Oh, yuk! I don't want to pay $2,000 for that? OK. Go with the Painless for $300. Great deal.

It's funny. It looks so innocent laying there?

OK. I'm over this now.

Did you ever notice in the harness that there are wires that are the same color with stripes but there are two different stripes? They are used to designate the polarity of the wires, i. e., which one is on the power in of the fuse box and the other on the power out side of the box?

What kind of vino do you think they were drinking?

Sorry to bring back such an old thread!
However, this is the use of the search function now that I am in the planning phases of my electrical.

Dave B. - Can I ask what the monitor or screen is for shown in your completed interior shot back on the first page?

Is it to control the radio by touch screen, back up camera, IR night camera, etc.

Pantera2077,

Check out David’s website at www.panterapassion.com for a ton of information on his mods and also a bunch of pics from events he has attended.

For a specific link to the David B’s interior mods Click Here. This page it gives you the specifics on the display and also a link at the bottom right corner to see the total modification.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the direct link to the interior.
I am not sure how I missed that section.

I got what I was looking for.

Whilst on the subject of wiring, I'm trying to sort out some of the wiring mess on my car whilst the new radiator is on the way.

My car appears to have had the radiator fan relays removed at some time, and thanks to the 74 wiring diagram I was able to trace most of the wires in the passenger side front of the car which have been butchered over the years.

BUT........there are two small loom extensions that I can't find in the wiring diagrams.

The main loom comes out of the firewall under the pass side front quarter and then follows the upper chassis line above the shocker to pass through a large grommet into the cavity behind the pass side headlight.

The loom splits off here with the largest section heading over to the drivers side containing wires for the lighting, headlight lifting motor and the radiator fans. A smaller loom heads into the pass side for lighting and another slightly larger loom with 6 wires exits into the radiator area to where the original fan relays would have been located.

There are two other small branches in behind the Pass side headlight area that I can't seem to trace. One has two wires, a brown and a black and the other has three wires, a grey and two blacks.

Can anybody tell me what these two branches (five wires) would be for as they are not connected to anything on my car which is a Dec 73 built L model.

quote:

One has two wires, a brown and a black and the other has three wires, a grey and two blacks.

Robert,

Those two probably went to the radiator temp switches for the original fan relays.

The wiring diagram shows a brown and a black going to the low temp switch, and a gray and two blacks going to the high temp switch.

John

Thanks John,

I sat studying that diagram for hours yesterday and missed those two entirely.

Must be the heat getting to me!!

Thanks very much, now I can clean it all up properly and put the radiator back in.

quote:

Must be the heat getting to me!!

It's just the frustration of not being able to drive the car!!

John

Are any of the Pantera owners down under in the flood areas? I'm under 2 feet of snow but my car is safe in storage! (Thanks Larry W.!) Hope everyone down there is ok.

There are a bunch of guys in Queensland, but at present I haven't had any bad news from them. Brisbane city itself is in imminent danger and that will afect hundreds of thousands. Electrical supply companies have had to terminate services to 150000 homes yesterday as flood waters encroached on sub stations.

Crazy country we live in. 12 years of devastating drought ended in cataclismic flooding. And in the Southern states, swarms of locusts are eating all of our wheat, bran and barley crops. Our food crops are either being eaten or washed away, so looks like we will be reliant upon the generosity of supportive nations to feed us for the next year.