Simple Upgrades

The Performer intake is a good street intake. It will let you make power up to 6000 rpm and is prbably the best intake if you dont plan to turn high rpm. I recommend a 1/2 inch fibre spacer between the intake and carb to prevent fuel boiling.

I dont care for Holley carbs. I like the Edelbrock carbs. For a street engine I dont recommend the Double pumper. Most likely a 600 Vacuum secondary would be better. Many people have had good luck with the Demon carbs. Mostly I like EFI and you can do the Holley Commander 950 efi for $1500.

There is no such thing as a simple upgrade or a "bolt-on".
If you want a nice running "tame" motor you can't do any better then a stock "high compression" CJ engine.
The best thing you can do is go to a Australian 2v head with new valves.
If you insist on an aftermarket induction, get an Edelbrock 2v-4v performer. If you want the a double pumper Holley get the 750 and put an electronic choke on it.
Dial this all in and leave it alone.

Of course if you want more then I'll help you come over to the dark side. But there will be no going back. Heh, heh, heh.

To your list, I'd add headers, plug wires and, especially, a cam. The cam would do most for improving the performance and make the engine sound a whole lot better. You don't have to yank the engine out to do it.

And not to state the obvious, when was the last time the hoses were changed?

Don't forget the exhaust. I agree with Doug. The Aussie 2V heads can make a world of difference. You don't have the extra expense of the aluminum heads while getting a boost in performance. Pat Mical makes an excellent exhaust system for the Aussie 2V's by the way.

Here's a list of the best fixes/upgrades for under $20.
http://www.banzairunnerpantera.com/best_fixes.htm

Cheers!
Garth

This is fun - psychos sharing their psychoses and encouraging more! Thanks for all.

From what I gather, there's not an aluminum performance intake for my old AutoLite, or is my ignorance showing again?

A fellow PI'er has got some terrific stuff listed, and I'm so bug-bitten with this Pantera thing that my heart and head are having a fight... with my Visa card as referee. (You guys are the cheering squad; some help.)

Do others agree with the Cowboy that Pat Mical headers aren't any louder than stock, or is he as deaf as I am? My 996 turbo has something called a "PSI Quiet" on it, and I can set off a car alarm if I feel like it. I want my Pantera to be a stealthy old beast, not racketeering.

Anyway, please respond on the headers and I'll leave you alone, for like an hour.

Thanks,

Adams my friend,

you turn a funny phrase sometime, thanks for the laugh.

There are two aluminum manifolds designed to accomodate the spread bore Autolite. Fords own intake designed for the Boss 351. It is functionally identical to the 1972 cobra Jet manifold, just cast of aluminum instead of iron. When you find one, you'll find the owners asking between $300 and $500 for it. The other intake is the Holley Strip Dominator. It is no longer manufactured but comes up for sale from time to time on ebay, normally selling around $400. The strip dominator is a single plane intake, air gap type, mounts the carburetor about 5/8" higher than where it sits right now, so use of the stock air filter assembly will not be possible.

On the topic of header noise, all headers made of tubing are noisy, compared to cast exhaust manifolds. However, what will make your Pantera quieter or louder will be the mufflers. The Magnaflow mufflers are a good trade off between low backpressure and mellow sound level.

I have the stock exhaust system on my car, and even it sets off car alarms. I kinda like that, it gives me a chuckle when it sets them off.

To help with the cheering: SPEND, SPEND, SPEND!

cowboy from hell

My opinion the Blue Thunder intake made a very noticeable difference on my stock motor ..with a Holley 650 CFM vac secondarys. This combo fits under the engine screen.

Next ADAMS ... headers and Hall big bores ... I happen to have a nice set for sale.

One of the must do items is ... electronic ignition package ..mine is a Hall Upgrade ..I'm sure the others have a Duraspark kit .. gotta get rid of those points.

Ron

A Hudson, Be fore warned that this disease starts out as just a few mild improvements, and before you know it the disease sneaks in. next the search for more horsepower starts and before you can say "Cubic Inch's" the disease has taken over your mind and credit cards!

Thanks again. I've got the electronic distributor, going to use my old points to clip really tiny pieces of paper together on my desk. Old distributor cap will be a pen holder. (Can any of us throw anything away? Future thread.)

1. For noise considerations, does an exhaust wrap muffle the Mical headers any better than not? I'd planned to run stock exhaust (original looks) but does that negate all my 'gain'? Woe is me.

I like Georgie's suggestion. I've got MagnaFlows on my V8 Tundra (of course it sounded like a mouse sneezing through cheesecloth before) but it now has - and please don't kick me out for this - among the best V8 rumbles I've ever heard. 4 out of 5 car guy friends approve in independent testing.

2. And my original question - I need to give my man a decision on the Edelbrock 4V Performer (F351) plus Holley 700 (Pantera Parts Center custom.) And yes, there's a spacer (3/8) as Dave mentioned. It fits under the screen which is also important.

3. Remember, my stock AutoLite plus drilled boat anchor intake runs fine, but as all of you indicated and Rapid said, I'm bitten and there may be no turning back. I just keep on looking at the 264 rated hp stock and the 300-330 previous ratings (I know the measuring system changed in there) and wonder what small improvements are just CRYING to be done?

Thanks again to all,

Hi, my name is Jeff and I am a Panteraholic. It's been 3 months since I last did something more to my Pantera...

Seriously, this is an insidious disease. I, like many, started off with a mild refresh for my engine and three plus years later, I had an entirely resto'ed car. I refuse to add up the cost altho I do have all the receipts. If I knew, I'd have to tell my wife and that would lead to a really bad situation. What's worse is during those three years, I was so totally consumed, I probably only worked half time in my real job and who knows what that cost me. All I can say is, I hope your marriage is sound because this disease will test it. Be forewarned!

Oh, and did I mention, this car is a blast to own. I've been sick for 30 some years and have no intention of getting well.

quote:

Originally posted by jeff6559:
Hi, my name is Jeff and I am a Panteraholic. It's been 3 months since I last did something more to my Pantera...

LOL,

I am continuing with my "Simple upgrades" too!

quote:

Desire reliability, quietness (relatively), and improved performance.

Let's get back to the original premise as noted above. I suggest not getting carried away just yet so I'd keep it the improvements relatively simple and not too expensive until you've had time to really decide what it is you want your Pantera to be. Otherwise, you'll be doing it over and over.


So what would that be?

Get a used Performer/F351 manifold and a Holley 650. Cost $425.

Get a used Big Bore or similar headers and keep the stock mufflers. Cost $100.

Buy a new medium spec cam. This, more than anything, will dramatically improve the engine. The cam will also make the engine sound much better without making it louder. Cost $250.

Total parts cost $775 and about 100 more horsepower.

Doing much more to an engine on a piecemeal basis until you decide what you really want doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially since there are so many good options. And then it would be a good idea to do a rebuild.

Take the extra money and start on some of the other maintenance things that a 30 year old car needs. Things like bushings and bearings, Porterfield brake pads(the best $250 upgrade you'll ever make to your brake system), the relay upgrade for fans and lights, etc.

Just my 2 cents worth.

quote:

For noise considerations, does an exhaust wrap muffle the Mical headers any better than not? I'd planned to run stock exhaust (original looks) but does that negate all my 'gain'?

Not sure you need to spend big money on these headers with such a pedestrian engine. (No insult intended.) And wrapped headers rust pretty quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
LOL,

I am continuing with my "Simple upgrades" too!

I don't know how to tell you this, but either your car needs a serious sway bar adjustment or - if the car is sitting upright - a man in a space suit is making love to your defroster.

I think the earth is just crooked.

quote:

Desire reliability, quietness (relatively), and improved performance.

It sounds like you're not planning to pull the engine for a rebuild at this time, but just looking for a few incremental improvements for the time being. In that case...

The Edelbrock Performer is one of the most popular intake manifolds for mild engines. I understand the original Ford intake is supposed to flow pretty well, but the Edelbrock will presumably flow better and save quite a bit of weight.

As far as carburetors go, I'm less than impressed with my Holley 670 Avenger. It's ok and gets the job done, but has a slight hesitation when gently rolling onto the throttle while already at cruise speed. I'd recommend a Road Demon 625cfm carb (possibly the 725cfm model if you're planning a future rebuild with a bigger cam, but you will need to jet it down for the stock engine). http://www.barrygrant.com/demon/default.aspx?page=8
Over-carbureation is the #1 mistake most people make with their engines. The bigger carb will flow better at WOT, but you will likely spend less than 1% of your driving time at WOT. The smaller carb will net you better driveability and off-idle performance.

Headers from any of the vendors will do. They will not cause the car to be noticeably louder. That would be the mufflers (keep the stock mufflers). You may be able to find used Pantera headers in the POCA newsletter, on ebay, or in the "parts for sale" section of this board. I've heard great things about Pat Mical's headers and would like a set myself, but that will have to wait until I rebuild my engine. If you're buying headers anyway, it may be more prudent to spend the extra $$ now on the headers you want in order to avoid spending the money again later to upgrade them when you do rebuild the engine.

Keep the stock mufflers! I have one of the quietest Panteras on Earth (that runs!) and it has headers from Hall Pantera with the stock mufflers. But it still sounds great! My neighbors don't think it's quiet, but compared to other Panteras, it is.

[/quote]Buy a new medium spec cam.[/quote]
Forget cam upgrades at this point. Save your money for when you can do a complete rebuild and address the valve train, heads, and everything else to complement the cam. My stock 104,000 mile original engine Pantera with electronic ignition, headers, Performer intake, and Holley 670 Avenger carb dyno'd 250hp at the rear wheels! Pretty good for a tired old engine! I've read a lot of posts here and on the DT Mail List where folks have thrown together an engine with "parts" and the results are less than impressive - they usually make power within 10% of my hp (on either side) but at the expense of driveability and reliability. Yeah, it might idle like a monster, but it's a poser. Wait until you're ready, then work with someone who KNOWS these engines who can help you spec a complete package that will do what you want.

quote:

Take the extra money and start on some of the other maintenance things that a 30 year old car needs. Things like bushings and bearings, Porterfield brake pads(the best $250 upgrade you'll ever make to your brake system), the relay upgrade for fans and lights, etc.

I couldn't agree more!

Keep it on the road, drive it, and enjoy it!
Garth

So much great info and needed, welcomed advice. So you'll all know I'm not just "fishing and wishing", I have indeed already gotten...

The Porterfield pads, already installed. New bearings, bushings, shift trunion, rotary ac, lines, stainless coolant lines, distributor upgrade (as mentioned) sound insulation (firewall, rear cowl kit), 8" & 10" Campys, stainless axle covers (Thanks PushButton!)Edelbrock water pump, and other stuff I've forgotten.

I so desire sanity and patience, but how boring is that? Yet, truth be known, I can reel myself into the suggestions so named. I'm probably going to have to 'wait' on the cam until I know what the heck I want to do with the car. If you guys recall, I'm the idiot who bought the car, drove it straight to Roush and flew home. I've got maybe 16 miles of driving time under my belt.

But I figure I want to get it 'dialed in' while it's with Ford experts with resources, tools, and talent. Yet it's up to me to aim the direction.

Thanks to you kind folks, I can do so more assuredly. Greatest board on the net, once again.

Whoa, if he's going to drive it at all, shouldn't replacing the 2-piece valves be paramount and precede other upgrades, so he's not shopping for a block and head next year to upgrade under his new aluminum intake?

Hey A Hudson,
When you're done, wanna tackle my car? :-) You pay, of course!
Sounds great. I wish I was that organized with things. I just put a Avenger 670 on my car, but I don't have any time on it since my clutch slave sort of died. Soon, soon...

quote:

If you guys recall, I'm the idiot who bought the car, drove it straight to Roush and flew home. I've got maybe 16 miles of driving time under my belt.

Oops, forgot about that. I say screw the enhancements and get out and drive that puppy. Then decide.

quote:

Originally posted by jeff6559:

quote:

If you guys recall, I'm the idiot who bought the car, drove it straight to Roush and flew home. I've got maybe 16 miles of driving time under my belt.

Oops, forgot about that. I say screw the enhancements and get out and drive that puppy. Then decide.

No. I must. I must mod. Yes, I in trance. Me mod car. Then mod more. Then, me get more mod. Jaa! Good!

Sorry, my alter ego popped out. I'm just wanting to get it 'about right' before I drive it and become even mildly disenchanted too soon. The closer I get to what I THINK I want (after all the awesome guidance) the more time I will drive it. Call me weird. (Oh, you already did?) Then call me hooked.

The comment about the 'two piece to one piece' valves has gotten my attention before but the Roush dude seems to think that this is potentially knee-jerk to a few cases, minuscule in the scheme of things. Don't worry, I've brought it up a few times, and keep getting some response about 'retainers' and 'we'll look at that after you get the bill for this other stuff'.

Every time they do that, I feel like I get extra mod money, thus the recent carb/intake desires. Thanks again.

Oh, and POPSRCR, my desk needs a leaf blower and my shirt is on backward, meaning you may be the first one to ever call me 'organized'... but I do make sure my cars are all tidy. Gotta have SOME order in my life!

Adams, the dropped valve problem is a reality. It doesn't happen to every Cleveland, its a random problem. So there's a good chance the folks at Roush are right, it won't occur to you. But, if the dice roll snake eyes, and by chance your motor drops a valve, well the results are normally terminal.