Some good...some bad! It passed the MoT test ... But it over heated on the way home.

quote:

they couldn't find anything wrong with the cooling system other than the temp sensor in the tank is suspect so they ordered another

First, does your shop know the proper place for the replacement sender IS NOT IN THE TANK? I hope so.

Second, what in Heaven's name were we trying to solve for the last 12 pages?

We mentioned the incorrect in-the-tank sender issue pages ago.

How did the "boiling over" cooling system suddenly and miraculously repair itself, apparently with nothing being done other than take it to a shop?

Was there EVER an overheating issue, or was it just a faulty sender/gauge.

I'm more confused than ever.

How does a system that is "boiling over" suddenly repair itself?

Larry

as for noisy front suspension, inspecting the bushings is fairly easy. If original bushings they could be dry rotted, if replacements, it might just be hard inserts.

besides breaking the rear end lose during hard throttle, I still remember the "first" time I had the rear end pass me due to lifting throttle in a hard curve.

Well, half of the thread is about a misunderstanding of cap descriptions. I never said I was running a "pressure cap" on my car, but a "sealed" cap, (like part #21 in the diagram) so my car is set up and running properly if I'm not mistaken (pressure cap on main tank, sealed cap on expansion tank).
We've agreed that putting another "pressure cap" on the expansion tank is not the way to go.

I went back and read somewhere the OP took his car to a shop and they suspected a sensor, and he's closely watching the car now, as well as watching the fans.

That's where things stand I believe.

Just to muddy the sender water, and maybe a smart electrical guy can correct my memory....

I have a back-up sender mounted in my swirl tank, and I had to run a separate ground from the tank body to chassis ground, as the tank was mounted with rubber hoses and a rubber standoff.

I just can't recall if no ground, therefore high (infinite) resistance made the sender read high or low. I am sure it read WAY off with no tank ground.

OK. You are getting at the crux of the situation here in my opinion. The OP has a couple of issues going here.



First off, I don't really think he understands much either mechanically or electrically. That's a big problem right there.

Second, the temp sender was taken out of the freakin' pressure tank for one reason by Detomaso. It just doesn't work there. Anyone getting that drift yet?

At best, it gives erratic readings. Tied to the original gauge with a 240 degree limit AND a Ford sender that doesn't match the Veglia gauge function precisely as it should, all it does is cause havoic.

IN ADDITION the OP has got a cap on the pressure tank that is not working. Take your pick of the possibilities why? The mind boggles.

This is what is causing the coolant to boil over. The pressure tank is not sealed.


WHY do you need to know how OR WHY the temp sender in the TANK doesn't work? It just doesn't.

This sado-masachistic crap about beating up everyone over this stuff has got to stop.


Take the freakin' thing out of the tank. Plug the tank. Install the sender into the engine where it belongs.


Put in the right Cleveland thermostat into the engine.

Now here is the really, really trick part...listen closely...PUT A 15 PSI CAP ON THE PRESSURE TANK THAT WORKS.


At the risk of being harsh THIS IS ALL CHILDS PLAY. If you can't do it as an adult, GET A CHILD TO DO IT FOR YOU.

If that doesn't work for you and you need more pain and humiliation, JOIN AN S&m CLUB, buy a nice whip AND BEG THEM TO BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF YOU!


This stuff has got to stop somewhere at some point?

Now if this is too harsh AND/OR to the point, theN I am sorry. Really, really sorry and makes me wonder if I am into S&M and just like to torture myself by reading these threads?

I don't think so, but I gotta' wonder?

Sealed cap
Pressure cap
Boiled over
Find no problems

I don't know? I always thought I understood the English language? Do you?

Did you ever see Nicholsons speech in "Carnal Knwoledge"? When she says yes, does it mean maybe or no?

Good thing I don't know Candice Bergen? What would she mean when she said "Hello"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066892/

I have this vision of the OP laughing his a$$ off at how this has devolved into a very weird thread. And he's driving his car with no more cooling issues. Maybe it's time to end the thread.

I Jacked the car up off the ground last night to see if everything was connected..it was..so I took her for a test drive...I appear to have several small people banging hammers under the car....this is never a good sign, although it did'nt overheat. So I have sent away for a Yaris brochure whilst the pantera visit the garage once again for behavioral counselling , Elvis was wrong, he should have used a bigger gun

ps...Robbie...whats an OP ?

You.

The OP is the "Original Poster" - the person who started the thread.

I think everyone is wondering what, if anything, was done to fix the overheating condition, both the gauge readings, and the coolant "boiling over"?

It sounded serious at first, now it seems fixed. What did your mechanic do?

We just wanted to be sure our advice was helpful!

Rocky.

All the advice was extremely helpful and gave me a better understanding of my car, the initial concern regarding the overheating could possible of been down to the filler cap not being on properly allowing steam to escape, and with a dodgy temperature sensor reading 220 degrees it lead me to believe the problem was greater than it was, the mechanic evidently could find no further issues but I've still to see the fans operating so further investigation may be required. I have now the concern regarding the knocking noise under the car...it should like I'm running fast with a flat tyre so the car is being returned to the mechanic this afternoon. Part of the enjoyment of running classic cars is discussing the arising problems with fellow enthusiast and I thank everyone for their support.....meanwhile I'll drive the mustang for a while to remind me of the joys of driving a quiet car.....

ps....my name is still Dean...OP sounds like a medical term !

quote:

I have now the concern regarding the knocking noise under the car...it should like I'm running fast with a flat tyre so the car is being returned to the mechanic this afternoon.

Does the knocking noise occur when stationary or when moving? And does the sound increase in frequency and/or volume with speed? Have your mechanic make sure the U-joints are tight and secure. Also, check your rear wheel bearings. You can perform a basic check as outlined in steps 3 and 4 on the following "pre-purchase inspection checklist."
http://www.banzairunnerpantera...-purchase_chklst.htm

Speed makes no difference, The car runs and drives so well and everywhere I look it shows signs of recent work and maintainence...so I'm pretty confident it should be easy to diagnose and fix....I'll soon see!

I'm off to pick up the car today, apparently the mechanic is unsure what the knocking noise was, he tried severalthings and on the subsequent test drive the noise had disappeared. The mechanic asked if he could showcase his company with the car on his trade stand at a local car show. He told me there were 700 cars there but they may as well of been one as everyone was crowded around the Pantera, I've had two serious offers for the car although I had no intention of selling her but I'm going to give it some consideration if she lets me down again

quote:

if she lets me down again

From what the mechanic has reported, she hasn't let you down at all!!!!!

Overheating problem, no problem found...

Knocking noise problem, no problem found...

quote:

he tried severalthings and on the subsequent test drive the noise had disappeared.

Ah yes, the try-multiple-fixes-at-once technique.

Problem with that, as you now know, is you gain no wisdom into what was wrong. So should the issue arise later, you once again have to use the shotgun approach.

You should at least learn what your "mechanic" did so you have SOME idea of what was wrong.

Larry

Haha I hope he's not charging you for not fixing anything

quote:

Haha I hope he's not charging you for not fixing anything

Not to mention the free advertising.

Yes you are right...the car hasn't really let me down...it's mainly due to my lack of spannering ability....after £1000 bill I can finally get to enjoy it, just the windscreen to replace which is on back-order.

Can anyone help me to locate a new temperature sensor...I think it fit's into the expansion tank rather the the block

quote:

Originally posted by Pishadeperro:
Can anyone help me to locate a new temperature sensor...I think it fit's into the expansion tank rather the the block

quote:

Originally posted by Pishadeperro:
Can anyone help me to locate a new temperature sensor...I think it fit's into the expansion tank rather the the block

Not sure what you mean by locate. Do you need a replacement sensor or do you want to put a sensor in the expansion tank? You don't need a sensor in the expansion tank. It tells you nothing useful. The temp sensor that feeds the temp gauge needs to be located in the block.

Es no yo comprendo?

quote:

posted Jul 15, 4:07 AM Hide Post
Can anyone help me to locate a new temperature sensor...I think it fit's into the expansion tank rather the the block

Sigh......

I’ve reviewed the 15 pages on this thread. Here’s what has been noted about the location of the coolant temp sensor……..


Dean,
have you confirmed the temp sensor is located in the block? The stock location was - incorrectly - in the pressure tank.

-----------

Hi Dean,
Here's where the temp sender SHOULD be located or moved to, in the block directly beneath the thermostat

-----------

one day later, Dean posted:
the sensor is on the expansion tank and that was cool to the touch,

-------------------

A week later, Dean wrote:
they couldn't find anything wrong with the cooling system other than the temp sensor in the tank is suspect so they ordered another

------------------

The temp sensor should be relocated to the block, this is a standard modification and I believe one of the original TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins).

--------------------

First, does your shop know the proper place for the replacement sender IS NOT IN THE TANK? I hope so.
Second, what in Heaven's name were we trying to solve for the last 12 pages?
We mentioned the incorrect in-the-tank sender issue pages ago.

----------------------

Take the freakin' thing out of the tank. Plug the tank. Install the sender into the engine where it belongs.

----------------

And yet, Dean still is asking:

Can anyone help me to locate a new temperature sensor...I think it fit's into the expansion tank rather the the block

----------------

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him .......

Larry

Enough of the smart arse.....I was only asking a question as I understood from the link that originally it was fitted to the tank and mine has yet to be changed to the block...the only bloke I trust to do anything else on my car is still too busy with other pantera...I've tried taking it to others but have lost confidence in them. I've tried eating humble pie by explaining I'm and electrician without the necessary skills to do it myself, I've also gone to great pains to thank everyone for their help in this matter as I've enjoyed the process and the banter, but don't treat me like a f...ing idiot...if you've had enough of me posting don't read it or better don't answer

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
[QUOTE]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him .......

Larry

...an oldie but a goodie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRnGv9l8UD8

I luv the accient but how do you lead a 'house ta wadda'?

for sure onena' Sheena's best

quote:

Originally posted by Pishadeperro:
Enough of the smart arse.....I was only asking a question as I understood from the link that originally it was fitted to the tank and mine has yet to be changed to the block...the only bloke I trust to do anything else on my car is still too busy with other pantera...I've tried taking it to others but have lost confidence in them. I've tried eating humble pie by explaining I'm and electrician without the necessary skills to do it myself, I've also gone to great pains to thank everyone for their help in this matter as I've enjoyed the process and the banter, but don't treat me like a f...ing idiot...if you've had enough of me posting don't read it or better don't answer

I think you're fully capable of doing this. All you need is a plug with the correct threads. If I recall the wire is long enough that the sender can be relocated to the block. You might have to free it from the wire loom. After that the system will have to be topped off and possibly "burped". Depends on how fast you can pull the sender out and insert the plug and vice versa when you install the sender in the block. (I'm also an electrician!).

I think it's really a swap, no? Plug from block goes to tank, sender from tank goes to block?

Take it from me, you should try and do the sensor swap yourself.

It's harder waiting and finding people to help, and this is a relatively easy operation.

If you're lucky, the threads are the same in both locations, so you'll be able to pop the sensor off, thread the plug in as quickly as possible, and then install the sensor in the other location.

If the threads are different, the plug you can get at your local hardware store, and you'll need to find a sensor with the right threads to thread into the block.

You might have to extend the wire, but again, that's easy.

You can do this! The Pantera is a car you'll need to start to learn how to work on yourself.


This forum is great, and full of helpful people that just want to help you get your car running correctly. Sometimes though you need some thicker "internet skin" but we're here to help.

Dive in! You can't really screw anything up.

as for your question as to what sender will work with the gauge. (it gets complicated)
http://www.panteraplace.com/page205.htm

Ok, I think I'll order the original sender that fits in the tank...and the improved version that fits in the block, then I can see where and if it fits...then wire it accordingly as it's difficult to envisage what work is necessary until I get the bits in my hand

I'd just get the sensor that goes into the block, install it, and switch the wire over. Leave the old sensor in the tank as the plug.

Do you think there is just one type?

You want the original sender. ANY Pantera vendor has them. They are a Ford sender.

Very simple installation, one wire hook up.

YOU DO NOT need to turn this into some sort of NASA scientific event. Just put the sender into the engine where it belongs.

The system is good to 252 degrees with 50/50 anti-freeze and a 15 psi cap.

This IS NOT something that you need to be able to calculate in order to pass your PE licensing exam.

If you have the early Veglia gauge it will top the gauge out or come close to it. That DOES NOT indicate that the car is overheating.

If you have the later L gauge I believe it is a 260 and it will appear more reasonable on the gauge at full operating temps.

A lot of information here on the different senders available. It also depends on what gauge you have installed.
http://www.panteraplace.com/page205.htm

Pish, there is one sender but two possible Veglia gauges. '71-72= 0-220F; '73-up= 0-260F. The 260 gauge is far more valuable due to its extended range and (I think) has better stock calibration. Whichever gauge/sender you use, the assembly should be calibrated to your car for better accuracy. You do this with engine running and a trusted glass thermometer in the header tank and a handful of small resistors to temporarily patch into the line from sender to gauge. Write down the two sets of temps you'll get- the variance will be greater at one end or the other of the range. If you want the last bit of accuracy, a variable resistor can be used. Then you solder in a resistor giving the closest value to true. The two gauges are not interchangeable once you calibrate the system.

Not to load you up with possibilities, but with a stabilized temperature after driving a bit, turn on the headlights. If the gauge temp drops instantly & noticeably, there is a grounding problem somewhere in your 44 year old system. All the small-gauge grounding wires are 'daisy-chained' one to another so it will not necessarily be the water temp gauge ground wire.