V12 question

I took some quick measurements of the V12 in the SL600.

From the face of the two black plastic covers/front pulleys to the engine bell housing flange is about 31". If that area was pushed up to 1" clear of the lower rear window frame, it would put the engine bell housing flange at about the centerline of the ZF axles. That would require a ZF setback of around 10". I don't believe that could be done, maybe 2"-3" max, so you'd have to move the engine into the cabin about 8"? How tall are you?

Wonderful engine. So smooth.

You’d have to use a transaxle with a shorter bellhousing flange to output drive dimension. As with some of the Coyote swaps that have been well documented in these forums, I’d think the biggest challenge would be dealing with the cylinder head to inner fender interference and getting the engine low enough in the chassis. If you’ve ever heard a Pagani Zonda, you’d probably think whatever you had to do to get the M120 to fit was worth the effort! If it’s the exotic sound you’re after, I think the Voodoo/Shelby/flat-plane-crank version of the Coyote V8 would be a much, much easier conversion. 

David nailed it, I looked into installing the M120 and have all the dimensions somewhere. It would require some serious modifications, along with a shorter transaxle. 

The above was prior to the advent of the Voodoo and is absolutely the way to go IMO. It's in keeping with the Ford theme and what I will likely do to make a modern rendition of a Pantera when I get around to it.

larryw posted:

I took some quick measurements of the V12 in the SL600.

From the face of the two black plastic covers/front pulleys to the engine bell housing flange is about 31". If that area was pushed up to 1" clear of the lower rear window frame, it would put the engine bell housing flange at about the centerline of the ZF axles. That would require a ZF setback of around 10". I don't believe that could be done, maybe 2"-3" max, so you'd have to move the engine into the cabin about 8"? How tall are you?

Wonderful engine. So smooth.

I am 5’11 or so 

How much do you think it would cost to do the mods?

Antony, hard to say until someone has an M120 dangling on a cherry picker above a Pantera's engine compartment. Dimensions will only get you so far. The width of the engine is actually more problematic than the length. The parts list will be a big one and expensive too. Lots of one-off custom parts.

Here's a good thread for you to read: https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...aint-of-heart?page=1  

What is it about the M120 that you like so much? What are you trying to accomplish? You probably want your Pantera to sound like an F1 car! So do I !  

Firstly an M120 worth buying is hard to come by and aftermarket parts are virtually non existent. Stock HP is about 400, about half of what Pagani is getting it to. As was suggest to em at the time you may be better off with a BMW or Audi V10 if you want the short stroke high revving capability.

I had Wilkinson install a Ford GT motor in mine. Height and width were bigger issues than the length though the length was an issue too because of the supercharger.   The engine is a dry sump and was lowered three inches and the decklid raised 3 inches. Wheel wells were modified and countless installs and reinstalls.  Fuel tank replaced too.  Cooling lines rerouted and firewall modified for access to wider engine.

I think you are talking about a huge undertaking and if you can't do the work yourself, then cubic dollars.  Probably need the electronics and associated wiring.  Getting the computer to play with other systems and turn off outputs and inputs you don't use and not throw trouble codes.  Paint and prep for the engine compartment.  ZF  may have to be relocated/replaced and a custom/new clutch and flywheel plus bell housing adapter or custom bell house .  Perhaps you will want larger exhaust pipes and CV joints.  Will you need more cooling capacity?

 I wouldn't be surprised to see it cost 6 figures to get that V12 engine professionally installed and running,  Lots of fabrication to get things to fit and play nicely together!

 Then the "might as well" starts.

It sounds like a really cool project and I would love to see it and hear it.

davidnunn posted:

Antony, hard to say until someone has an M120 dangling on a cherry picker above a Pantera's engine compartment. Dimensions will only get you so far. The width of the engine is actually more problematic than the length. The parts list will be a big one and expensive too. Lots of one-off custom parts.

Here's a good thread for you to read: https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...aint-of-heart?page=1  

What is it about the M120 that you like so much? What are you trying to accomplish? You probably want your Pantera to sound like an F1 car! So do I !  

Well I actually don’t own a Pantera... yet! But I’m a huge Benz enthusiast and Pantera enthusiast and a friend and I were like damn imagine how awesome and M120 would be in a Pantera! I happen to think it’s the best sounding motor of all time when revved. And yeah exactly that insane F1 sound with the Pantera looks is the stuff of wet dreams. 400hp isn’t a lot but adequate for such a light car. 

gtpowered posted:

I had Wilkinson install a Ford GT motor in mine. Height and width were bigger issues than the length though the length was an issue too because of the supercharger.   The engine is a dry sump and was lowered three inches and the decklid raised 3 inches. Wheel wells were modified and countless installs and reinstalls.  Fuel tank replaced too.  Cooling lines rerouted and firewall modified for access to wider engine.

I think you are talking about a huge undertaking and if you can't do the work yourself, then cubic dollars.  Probably need the electronics and associated wiring.  Getting the computer to play with other systems and turn off outputs and inputs you don't use and not throw trouble codes.  Paint and prep for the engine compartment.  ZF  may have to be relocated/replaced and a custom/new clutch and flywheel plus bell housing adapter or custom bell house .  Perhaps you will want larger exhaust pipes and CV joints.  Will you need more cooling capacity?

 I wouldn't be surprised to see it cost 6 figures to get that V12 engine professionally installed and running,  Lots of fabrication to get things to fit and play nicely together!

 Then the "might as well" starts.

It sounds like a really cool project and I would love to see it and hear it.

I think it would sound amazing. It would b an awesome project that if I could I would be willing to undertake. 

A whole lot easier to stroke a 351C to 408 ci and 600 horsepower. Makes the Pantera a whole different car. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhpnE2Cjr0

I always wondered that about my SL65 V12Biturbo if that thing could fit in. That engine is a rocket ship especially with RENNtech race chip gets 800 HP & 1,000 torque. Maybe it would fit without all this gismo stuff on top. Sounds like an F1 car, but then I could understand the true Pantera is supposed to be grunt and not sound like a Ducati.

Evidently the V12 fits in a Datsun 280Z...

https://autoweek.com/article/e...wap-update-tick-tick