drivers side
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more
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top view
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say when you've seen enough
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from the back
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from the front looking back
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center pivot
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driver side adjustment
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top front birdseye view
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What has been seen...can not be unseen!
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As you see, the spacing of IDA's vs IDF are different enough.
There is another linkage for them and it will tend to twist on the tang more then the IDA does.
The true test of the linkage is to run the car at WOT and see if the engine returns to it's 800rpm idle.
In my case it is 650 and with the non-Weber cam in there, the engine sounds like a marching band. Boom, boom, bad-bad boom boom, etc, etc, etc!
There is another linkage for them and it will tend to twist on the tang more then the IDA does.
The true test of the linkage is to run the car at WOT and see if the engine returns to it's 800rpm idle.
In my case it is 650 and with the non-Weber cam in there, the engine sounds like a marching band. Boom, boom, bad-bad boom boom, etc, etc, etc!
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
What has been seen...can not be unseen!
Thanks for the pics. I went and worked on it last night, and will be working on it this weekend to. Those pics will be very helpful.
Jay
Jay
Good luck on it. If you need help, PM me. Maybe I can offer some suggestions in what to try?
The linkage on multiple Weber carbs is anything but childs play.
I've tried a lot of combinations and discovered many pitfalls.
You want your linkage as simple as possible and as easy as possible to service on the car.
The Pantera is not an easy car to have to do work on while on the car. I can only imagine the Mangusta is even more difficult. As a result on the Pantera it is better to do the linkage a certain way. What works on the bench could be an issue on the car itself.
The linkage also has the tendency of burning up the throttle bearings in the carbs because of all these 90 degree angle loading s and the quality of the factory bearings not being the best.
Even how you mount the carbs to the manifold is important. Using studs makes it difficult to get the carb off without dismantling the linkage. It's like having cylinder heads using studs rather then bolts.
It works fine in the shop but you may find that pulling off the head with studs in the car is impossible or close to it.
If you look at my setup, every carb kicks down within a matter of minutes. Even the fuel lines (which are 304 stainless steel tubing) are built in such a way that they are self supporting and need no individual clamps and are smooth so that you don't get cut up on the abrasiveness of the braided hoses.
The air cleaners have no clamps. The collars are Krazy glued to the velocity stacks. It is easier to remove the entire stack then to unclamp an air cleaner from it, and just replace the assembly with a bare stack when needed or desired.
The nuts that hold the carb tops on are stainless flanged nuts to make it faster to disassemble the carbs.
Just about everything in the assembly is there for a reason.
Ideally it would be better to have the curb idle screw (one) accessible from the outside rather then the inside but that is really a by product of the linkage arms available AND the orientation of the carbs themselves with the fuel lines on the outside of the carbs.
Inglese has a kit he makes that would point the carbs all in the same direction. This is for linkage simplification but 1) you loose hp (that you feel) and throttle response because 2 of the carbs are facing the wrong way in relation to line of sight to the intake valve and 2) it doesn't work well with center location throttle rods or cables. The throttle wheel mounts outside over the valve cover.
The linkage on multiple Weber carbs is anything but childs play.
I've tried a lot of combinations and discovered many pitfalls.
You want your linkage as simple as possible and as easy as possible to service on the car.
The Pantera is not an easy car to have to do work on while on the car. I can only imagine the Mangusta is even more difficult. As a result on the Pantera it is better to do the linkage a certain way. What works on the bench could be an issue on the car itself.
The linkage also has the tendency of burning up the throttle bearings in the carbs because of all these 90 degree angle loading s and the quality of the factory bearings not being the best.
Even how you mount the carbs to the manifold is important. Using studs makes it difficult to get the carb off without dismantling the linkage. It's like having cylinder heads using studs rather then bolts.
It works fine in the shop but you may find that pulling off the head with studs in the car is impossible or close to it.
If you look at my setup, every carb kicks down within a matter of minutes. Even the fuel lines (which are 304 stainless steel tubing) are built in such a way that they are self supporting and need no individual clamps and are smooth so that you don't get cut up on the abrasiveness of the braided hoses.
The air cleaners have no clamps. The collars are Krazy glued to the velocity stacks. It is easier to remove the entire stack then to unclamp an air cleaner from it, and just replace the assembly with a bare stack when needed or desired.
The nuts that hold the carb tops on are stainless flanged nuts to make it faster to disassemble the carbs.
Just about everything in the assembly is there for a reason.
Ideally it would be better to have the curb idle screw (one) accessible from the outside rather then the inside but that is really a by product of the linkage arms available AND the orientation of the carbs themselves with the fuel lines on the outside of the carbs.
Inglese has a kit he makes that would point the carbs all in the same direction. This is for linkage simplification but 1) you loose hp (that you feel) and throttle response because 2 of the carbs are facing the wrong way in relation to line of sight to the intake valve and 2) it doesn't work well with center location throttle rods or cables. The throttle wheel mounts outside over the valve cover.
Here is one more picture you may find helpful. This is the bracket I needed to make to hold the throttle cable in the right location to clear the distributor.
It isn't fancy but it works. Like they say, necessity is the mother of invention.
Oops! This bracket is upside down in this picture. It won't fit under the distributor this way.
It isn't fancy but it works. Like they say, necessity is the mother of invention.
Oops! This bracket is upside down in this picture. It won't fit under the distributor this way.
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So true of that bracket! (I would probably have done the same- who's going to see it anyway?)
This looks like one of my cats. We call him, "The Shadow" because he sees everything, hears everything, but everything can't be beautiful. "Only the 'Shadow' knows!"
It winds up under the distributor. It was probably version three or four so patience was a little thin by then.
You can keep a secret right?
It winds up under the distributor. It was probably version three or four so patience was a little thin by then.
You can keep a secret right?
I made a cable pulley for my throttle which worked well on the engine stand.
I am going to change the spring return a little though. I picked up a recoil spring for a weed eater starter which I am going to mount under the pulley instead of using a linear spring.
I am going to change the spring return a little though. I picked up a recoil spring for a weed eater starter which I am going to mount under the pulley instead of using a linear spring.
To Pantera Doug.......thank you very much for the helpful pictures and everyone who helped in this forum.....Russ Hook
That's what it's all about Russ. Glad it helped. Webers ain't easy at all.
Anyone running them definitely needs help.
Anyone running them definitely needs help.