While I’m there I should…. “The can of worms”

I hear you brother! My CNC slave cylinder, which saw one summer of use 22 years ago, sprung a leak the other day. It was a long throw version along with the matching master cylinder. Despite my best efforts, (probably clumsy) I never did get it to go into reverse and first without a little grind. I called Ron Mccall, who asked what kind of clutch it was. I said I had no idea….

I now have an appointment with Ron and have a new everything on order. I’ll have him safety wire it as well. The leak wasn’t THAT bad…

Along the lines of doing it once, correctly and forever, does anyone have any thoughts on a concentric - Tilton or otherwise - throw out bearing/?

My heart goes out to the gentleman who had his Goose stolen. Looking in the registry: 8MA822 shows up in Arizona around the year 2011. It's painted white or off-white.  In 2016, it was seen in Germany, wearing a lime green color.

Rather than rebuild the original and cracked door handle, get a set of IPSCO door handles.  They're beautiful, like jewelry.

https://ipsco.org/Pantera_file...20door%20handles.htm

But, if you're going to rebuild yours anyway, you might want to replace the worn, crazed or pitted chrome pulls with polished stainless pulls.  I may have a set available because I was planning to rebuild my door handles when I discovered both plastic cups were faded, one was cracked, and the other door handle had something else inside broken.

@scifi posted:

My heart goes out to the gentleman who had his Goose stolen. Looking in the registry: 8MA822 shows up in Arizona around the year 2011. It's painted white or off-white.  In 2016, it was seen in Germany, wearing a lime green color.

Thank you very much! 🙏

I will forward the information to the gentleman!!!

@garth66 posted:

Rather than rebuild the original and cracked door handle, get a set of IPSCO door handles.  They're beautiful, like jewelry.

https://ipsco.org/Pantera_file...20door%20handles.htm

But, if you're going to rebuild yours anyway, you might want to replace the worn, crazed or pitted chrome pulls with polished stainless pulls.  I may have a set available because I was planning to rebuild my door handles when I discovered both plastic cups were faded, one was cracked, and the other door handle had something else inside broken.

Very nice jewelry… but I keep my patina on purpose.. it’s 50 years old and it will be very good mechanically but no beauty queen… 👍.  To really see what my car is you need to dig in.. otherwise it’s just another yellow Pantera..

I saw the handles at the PIM show and I definitely noticed them.. clean straight cut..  very nice!!! I even ask the owner of the car about them…

@Ed Harbur posted:

I hear you brother! My CNC slave cylinder, which saw one summer of use 22 years ago, sprung a leak the other day.

It seems to me that more usage would have been a cure too… being just an unused object is a killer… on the other hand even with use … after 22 years…😕

I just replaced my clutch master and slave a few weeks ago. I bought an Alpha Romero 19mm bore master and although my slave wasn’t that old I replaced it with a stock style from Wilkinson. Clutch is working great now.

Ed, I've been running a concentric throwout system for the last 25 yrs. I adapted a Tilton racing unit to the ZF because no one sold such a thing back then. Two common fail-spots: when the mfg says 'establish 0.060" of clutch to throwout free play,' BELIEVE IT! The whole rig uses a single square quad-ring to seal. It seals on the OD of the cylinder bore AND simultaneously on the internal piston ID, and works only in-and-out.

What happens is, guys skimp or error on setting the required free play. When the engine & bellhousing are hot from 15+ minutes of driving, the free play closes up considerably. If it disappears altogether, the concentric piston bottoms and begins spinning with the input shaft. The quad ring will fail in 50 miles if it starts spinning. They are reportedly difficult to replace (I've not had to).

D Quella used to sell such a rig (not a Tilton) and reportedly had massive warranty problems, mostly because of inadequate free play during home installation, I think. Dunno where his system was sourced from.

The second problem is obvious: if ANYTHING goes wrong, the ZF must come out to fix it.

Advantages:

1)- the rig is 12 lbs lighter than stock- you don't need the stock slave or its bracket, nor the cross shaft in the bell housing, its bearings/ bushings, or the cast iron release fork. It all goes on a shelf.

2)- With a std bore clutch master, the concentric throwout will stroke in/out around 0.090"! So one has more than enough in hand for large amounts of free play, and it's self adjusting once set up properly. This is good for saving the usual ZF synchro wear due to stock clutch drag. Its also easier to push in & out: Judy (5'2" & 118 lbs) had no problem street driving it 500 miles to 'Vegas.

My rig adjusts by threading in & out on a special ZF nose piece w/ a stock nose seal. The bleed hose extends out one of the ZF cross-shaft holes while the pressure hose goes in the other. Quella's adjusts by a stack of shims on (I think) a stock ZF nose piece. Both systems work fine. Good luck-

I did a brief mental recap of the last 22 years, and it turns out I was VERY busy! So are most of us, I expect. The car was in storage, so out of sight, out of mind didn’t  help a bit either. Now it’s home and I can’t go to work without walking past it, and somehow it’’s come to the front of the list1

Lousbby- Great to hear you succeeded. I just had a back “repair” that prevents lifting, twisting or bending  for 6-8 weeks,,and I really want to drive the car at that time, so off to McCall it goes,  and I figure I’d just let him use whatever he wants, He suggested a complete clutch kit from Quella, and as I remember, master and slaves from Wilkinson. Will check my notes.

.

Boss- I just found your post on the concentric throw out bearing from ‘23 yesterday, and you’ve successfully convinced me that I’m not a good candidate! Thanks for your help on this and everything else. -Ed

Doing the interior there is a lot of wiring to attend to….. and rust and dirt

Here something unexpected:

I was going to replace the speedo cable on my car and I undid the zip ties of the new cable… unrolled it and laid it on the floor to relax….
as any Young at heart person would do I wanted to Twiddle the cable between my fingers… and to my absolute astonishment it didn’t want to turn…. WTF… 😳 Now i tried it from the other side - same result!!!

it took a  vice-like grip of my fingers to slightly turn the inside cable while holding the outside!! That can’t be right!!!  I pulled the cable out of the shielding and I found that to was packed…. I mean really really packed with graphite grease!!  I’ve wiped the cable off and stuck it back in… slightly better… Pulled it out again wiped more grease off and repeated the procedure five more times…. Now it’s  like a normal easy turning but still well lubricated speedo cable! I did not know that such a thing is possible (or how they got the grease like that in there) but here I am with blobs of grease coming out of this 6 foot cable that would have caused trouble for sure….

there is a thing as to much lube…. 🫣

Working on the wiring inside the cab I reroute and delete and shorten and lengthen quite a few wires!

I noticed on the parking break switch that there are three terminals, two terminals make contact when the handbrake is down and one contact makes ground over there parking brake switch… This is the contact that brake light on… Does anybody know what the other two connections do.. ? One was a single black wire and the other was 2 yellow wires crimped in one connector!

Seat belt warning.

@forestg posted:

Seat belt warning.

You take the parking brake off and the seatbelt warning would come on… Something like that

Wires and hoses along the tunnel

new relaxed routing of speedo and throttle cable…

Installed new mechanical fuel pump, (substitute the bolts with studs) ! Also run wires for electric fuel pump ( just for priming / hot start / vapor lock) and fuel pressure sender and temperature sender for cooling fans. Installed fuel filter, working on fuel pump mount! New fuel hose tank to filter… going to be new all the way to carburetor..

Another day well spent….

And it looks about the same today… after 8 hours of work…. 😫

Putting the tools down - back on Monday

Light braces…over the top?!!!

Some marvelous work done by some previous “mechanic”..

Is that stock?

@rocky posted:

Is that stock?

It doesn’t look like Luigi did it…

When I started this thread , I didn’t know how really really true the title Would hold up!
I usually try to make sure I’m not backing myself into a corner… So in case of the electric part I made plenty of pictures (some got lost when my phone died) but the majority is there… put stuff back together the way it  was… Big mistake!!

I am in reach of firing up the car (and put in the interior and drive off into the sunset)  IF I can get the electric to work… There were a few Things that didn’t work when  I bought the car, but as I an trying to Get everything to work I’ll find more and more things wrong!(if you leave the ignition on for a while, or you turn the instrument lighting up , Or the headlight motor doesn’t wanna shut off…)

The hazard switch wiring in the back was not even remotely what it’s supposed to be and Therefore responsible for a lot of issues - obviously..

also, the back up lighting from the gauges, the headlight switch, cut wires, Crappy fixes…

The stuff I did new,  regarding wiring,  is not even hooked up! At least I can not  blame myself for blowing fuses!

extremely mega enormously frustrating!

I can build things, wiring a whole airplane from scratch… but this is getting down to my bloody bones… to find all those electrical screw ups…. Stuff build to work for one minute and then you better have it turned off again!
I am backed up in the corner, and I try to find a game plan….

@rocky .. I rather do a pedal box overhaul!!!

Someone must’ve monkeyed around with your wiring, because I have always found these cars to be pretty simple, and the wiring, pretty straightforward…

But maybe, I’m just lucky!

I like the "I can build things, wiring a whole airplane from scratch… but this is getting down to my bloody bones… to find all those electrical screw ups…. Stuff build to work for one minute and then you better have it turned off again!"

Welcome to our world! We do these electrical messes on a daily basis. In the early years all we ever did was water pumps, fuel pumps, brake pads, belts, hoses, simple stuff. Now-a-days...electrical messes one after another, EVERY car has some electrical mess here or there. But...electrical work is clean, it's easy, and it's thinking work. We'd rather do electrical than change pistons and cranks!

We have a car here now that the last owner cut all the wiring out with a hack saw for restoration. then lost it. Bought a 'painless wiring system' online. Nothing matches anything just bundle of #22 wires. For example, the instructions say the backup lights work off the cruise control box! What a joke. AND no cruise control box is in the kit! lol. That's nothing to us. We do them for breakfast lunch and dinner.

If you're backed into a corner we love electrical & Pantera is a simple car to wire. Unless you're not of the mind to do it, it can be overwhelming. But when you do Pantera 24-7-365 it's a piece of cake because we know these cars. Send the car down if you're at the end of your rope. Wiring is no big deal. Pantera Miami.

It’s just exhausting to trace ALL the little stupid things…  just a sampling:

the spring holding the backup light bulb touching the center lead of the socket!

wire for the brake light cut in the harness footwell/“firewall corner and then nicely taped the harness

headlight relay minor corrosion on one contact (passed 5V)

Original AND New headlight switch faulty

hazard switch incorrect connected

head light switch incorrect connected

Center console instrument lighting incorrect connected

A/c switch partial no contact

door interior lights switches not connected, no wires

turn signal stock switches corroded

and so on and on….

Now all the things you just read are the solutions to a problem or the problem itself but I get

fuse # 4 blows sometimes and right side rear lights not working and no brake lights at all and hazard when turned on stuck in on and light switch pink wire is getting warm and no horn and lights only open

all that in one go….!!! And I ask myself: where is the problem… and that is where I went wrong 😑 the question I should have asked myself should have been - how many problems are there‼️

That’s a lot of neglect and / or neanderthal electricians at work for a long time on one car!  I’m having lunch with my multimeter and a 10 foot wire..

all the wiring I did for my additional stuff is not hooked up … just run the wires but not connected to power:

Powersteering, electric fuel pump, second headlights, Fuel pressure gauge, ignition switch, starter switch, interior fan, heater hose valve,voltmeter , clock… all that will get there own fuse / relay panel!

when I’m done with this car I know pretty much every nut, bolt , bushing , cable, wire, bulb, connector, hose, tube, hydraulic cylinder, bearing, ball joint, spacer and so on by their first name!! I touched them all!🖕

I’ve got a big 200 amp knife switch in my storage unit.

It would look good on your center console, and you can turn all that stuff on with one switch action!

I will loan it to you – I haven’t used it in 18 years, but you never know when I might need it!

😎

@rocky posted:

I’ve got a big 200 amp knife switch in my storage unit.

It would look good on your center console, and you can turn all that stuff on with one switch action!

I will loan it to you – I haven’t used it in 18 years, but you never know when I might need it!

😎

Funny you said that… I started mounting a battery disconnect switch in the cabin today… 1/4 turn disconnect… center console footwell passenger…

I’m  sick of the little green knob at the battery that when you unscrew may or may not disconnect! (Aside it takes time to get out and do it)

That is a great mod.

I have one on 4 of 5 of my classics (various styles of switch).

Rocky,

Do you have a part number for the switch in your picture?

Thanks,
John

#3590

Hey John…

Don't have the specifics on that one, but here’s a selection.  Blue Sea Systems has a good reputation…

https://www.westmarine.com/battery-switches/

Hope this helps!

Chuck

They are a lot on Amazon.

Battery 12v  disconnect….

Apparently, the same switch available on Amazon

Really, these switches are under very little stress, because when you switch them on and off, all the high current requirement of our cars are switched off.

Mine has been a great benefit to my battery longevity!

Thanks guys, I will definitely be adding one to my setup.

I had two "little green knob" things fail and went to this: