72 Pantera for trade?

I think it is not high .. I suggest it is low.

I think it's high , no original wheels, to much personal touch on the inside of the car.
just my 2 cents on value
Simon

Im not going to put a value on the car. I haven't been watching for the last long while.
As Ive said before ( and been bashed for it), personal touches like yellow accents everywhere will lessen the amount of people being interested in your car. Best to stay neutral, IMO.
Will

Yes, the value seems a funny thing. When I bought the car mustangs and Shelbys had no where near the value. Now I see people asking 70-80k for fake Shelby clones. Sort of odd. Maybe it has to do with the cost of restoration.

Personal touches do have to appeal to the right person I agree. But I built the car for myself I guess, not necessarily for resale. It is not a perfect original car, that's for sure, but I wouldn't want one for myself. Part of the fun of a Pantera for me was personalization and running it a few times at Road America. Worth every penny I spent on the car. Car shows, cruzes, were a lot of fun. Hard to keep clean with the brake dust and the engine cavity like a giant dust vacuum. Sort of why it sits. After a few years of cleaning after every drive, and without being able to use a hose to wash it. Well I guess I just got lazy or busy or both. The steering wheel is removable. I have the original seats so I suppose that would eliminate most of the accents if desired.

For me, a Shelby with the accents is more desirable than a stripe delete car, and what I would prefer. Shelby American and Ford must figure the same thing from what see. Do upgrades hurt or help a car? Maybe depends on the buyer?

Thank you for the replies.
Keith.

Hi Keith, I think your car looks great. Tastefully done. People who want a bone stock one need to watch Jay Leno's take on pantera's. He is spot on. I think your price is close to what it should be. Good luck on your sale,
Don

Thanks Don. Yeah, I guess Jay and I share the same opinion of what we like in a Pantera. Stock body, big tire car is what I built. Kind of an old build now, but time does March on. I think it's a nice car, just after 20 years maybe it's someone else's turn to keep it clean. At the end of the day I guess maybe the value is what someone is willing to pay or trade but I needed to start someplace.

Keith.

I have Snow White, a car in a similar situation as yours. Modified, stock body remains, but many personal mods done, HUGE power, owned and built by someone who was supposedly well respected in the P-car community, and IMO it IS what I wanted, a modded hotrod Pantera. I didn't want a stocker, so I figured I'd found the right car for me.

It HAS turned out (finally) to be that car I was looking for (after a lot of work and time and money). I've been asking much less than you are asking for your car and had mixed results.

There's those cars that are worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and both our cars fit into that category.

Good luck with your sale.

Thank you Mike for your input, it is appreciated. I went and took a look at your add and car. Nice Pantera. Sort of what I am used to seeing. The all stock cars while very nice in my opinion are more for the collectors not the enthusiasts. I am an enthusiast. It is hard to own a Pantera and not dream about performance enhancements if you drive the car I would think. So much potential there. For me living so close to Road America it seemed natural to build the car for some light track work the first couple years I owned it. Very fun. To experience a track like Road America is almost beyond explanation. I had spectated for years, one corner or a straight at a time. Amazing to take in the entire track and experience not only the turns but the changes in elevation. What the car was designed to do. Did it affect the value? Maybe, but not to me, just after 20 some years of ownership and declining interest I thought a new babysitter may be in order. When I take a look on Ebay and other for sale services I am just amazed at what Mustangs sell for now. Surely a Pantera with performance modifications should approach 100K and a 100% unmolested museum piece even more. For me I think what I am asking is in the right range. A 2013-2014 Shelby like I am looking for will always be out there and most likely be worth less and more affordable every day in the near future. Trading the Pantera just seems a way for me to justify getting a newer performance car. Most likely I will get one whether the Pantera sells or not. Just had a bug to put the car out there after all these years I guess.

Thanks again to all for the opinions. Sort of makes me want to add a chassis stiffening kit and carbon fiber hood and deck lid to the car.

Keith.

It's a funny old world this Pantera universe isn't it?

I like it Keith. I'd but yours AND Mikes (I really like Mikes) if I could justify the $$'s just now with 1424 still needing another 50K spent on it to get it rust free and as I want it.

The yellow internal stuff is really just fluff - seats and a steering wheel are nothing in the scheme of Pantera world to replace if its not what someone wants in a car but everything else is great.

Question if I may - what size are your rear wheels and tyres? The one thing I want to sort sooner rather than later on mine is the back wheels - they hide too far inside the guards and it makes it look a lot less "aggressive"...

Michael.

My car is running PI wheels, 12x17's, with 335x35x17 rear tires (just about as wide as they make, I THINK there's a 245 out there, but I'm running as wide a tire as is available).

I think it's totally cool that so much meat can fit within the stock fenderwells without mods.

Fronts of course are much smaller, 235x45x17 I think. My car is running on "cheater slicks", basically slick racing tires with just two little rings that apparently make them street legal. No good for rain though, although I'd NEVER drive my car in the rain, for many reasons. It's rust free, and I want to keep it that way.

I live 20 minutes from Sears Point Raceway, and plan to do some track days with my car, if it doesn't sell.

I kind of move from dream to dream. Owning a Pantera was one dream I've had since I was 13-14. Now that I've accomplished that dream, I AM happy, and enjoying driving and owning the car.

A bigger, longer dream of mine has been to fly, and own an airplane, and I just discovered that I actually CAN afford to do just that. I'd always considered owning a plane was just WAY out of my abilities, but I've learned that there's lots of cheap planes out there.

I'm buying a plane in a month or so, whether I sell the car or not. Flying is just a whole new world, and VERY cool. I've found a plane that I'll be looking at soon in Arizona, may just fly it home.

IF, my Pantera sells, then that opens up new level of planes I can shop for, but it doesn't matter either way. I'll be up there enjoying the skies either way. Taking lessons right now. Should have my license in a couple months, and may even finish my lessons in my own airplane! That'll save me 5 or 6 grand in lessons costs, because the plane rental is the expensive part.

Again, good luck with your sale.

quote:

Originally posted by kghills:
Thank you Mike for your input, it is appreciated. I went and took a look at your add and car. Nice Pantera. Sort of what I am used to seeing. The all stock cars while very nice in my opinion are more for the collectors not the enthusiasts. I am an enthusiast. It is hard to own a Pantera and not dream about performance enhancements if you drive the car I would think. So much potential there. For me living so close to Road America it seemed natural to build the car for some light track work the first couple years I owned it. Very fun. To experience a track like Road America is almost beyond explanation. I had spectated for years, one corner or a straight at a time. Amazing to take in the entire track and experience not only the turns but the changes in elevation. What the car was designed to do. Did it affect the value? Maybe, but not to me, just after 20 some years of ownership and declining interest I thought a new babysitter may be in order. When I take a look on Ebay and other for sale services I am just amazed at what Mustangs sell for now. Surely a Pantera with performance modifications should approach 100K and a 100% unmolested museum piece even more. For me I think what I am asking is in the right range. A 2013-2014 Shelby like I am looking for will always be out there and most likely be worth less and more affordable every day in the near future. Trading the Pantera just seems a way for me to justify getting a newer performance car. Most likely I will get one whether the Pantera sells or not. Just had a bug to put the car out there after all these years I guess.

Thanks again to all for the opinions. Sort of makes me want to add a chassis stiffening kit and carbon fiber hood and deck lid to the car.

Keith.

The car looks good, is the year most people want, the best color (sorry I am biased), priced and stated properly.

Might I suggest adding a comment to the listing that the stock parts that you have go with the car, it might bring a wider group of buyers.

IMHO people that are looking for a 00001 mile odometer car... should find one with original gas it would only be seen on a trailer! Smile.

I believe our cars are way undervalued, compared to others of like and kind. I just wish in 1978, I would have said yes to that baby blue 1968 Shelby GT KR500 from my friend Chris years ago (with the 427 side oiler that won Lime Rock in 1969...) it would have been 2 grand well spent. But it has a good home with a guy at a Ford dealer in Berlin CT.

Thanks Michael. Yes the Pantera Galaxy, spread out all over the world I guess. My tires are on Kinesis 9x17 and 12x17 five spoke three piece wheels with forged centers. I run 245/40R17 and 335/35R17 Michelin Pilots for tires. Can't remember the back spacing or offsets but when I ordered them years ago I just told Kinesis they were for a stock bodied Pantera and they seemed to know exactly what I needed. I think there are still job number stickers on the backs of the wheels. Let me know, if you need me to I can pull one off and get you the number.

Mike, 20 minutes from Sears Point? No matter what, weather you sell or keep your car, given the level of enhancements it appears you have done to your car you NEED to get it and yourself on a road coarse. You really owe it to yourself to add running a Pantera on a road coarse to your life experiences. Even if you just go out for a club day and do some high speed touring you need to do it. Around here the Shelby, Mustang, Corvette and Viper clubs will all let a Pantera play with them on the track when they have a track day. Just ask them nicely.

Joe, thanks, it is the best color, or as us with the yellow car gene call it the "right" color. I will add the parts I have will come with the car. Good idea. The cars do seem to be undervalued don't they. Maybe that's why they don't sell that often. I mean if the cars aren't selling for what the owner thinks their worth why sell it. For me there is a Ford hierarchy, it goes Mustangs, Shelbys, Panteras, AC Cobras, GT40s. Yes certain one only racing pedigree car might mess it up a bit but in general that's how I gauge it. As I stated before for me to see people asking near 100K for a fake Shelby Mustang just seems absurd if not just plain wrong. But that's me, and given the number I see at that price I could be wrong. I guess I will not add to the under valuing of the cars and ask what I'm asking. If I find a cool trade, that would be fine, but I am fine with keeping the car also.

And yes, as for the ones that got away, there I am 16 years old at the local mechanics shop looking at a 71 Hemi Cuda convertible automatic car with my neighbor who was looking at the car. He decides to pass at 2,200.00. I figure I will buy it till he tells my parents I'd kill myself in that car. Thanks a lot huh. The irony is that I purchased a 70 LS6 Chevelle instead and survived.

Many thanks again to all who have looked and those who have expressed their opinion.

Keith.

Thanks Keith and Mike - 335's look awesome and I'll have to do some homework on the rims I have in regards to offsets and the like. I suspect they're 10 x 17's which my tyre guys say will work.. but we'll see when we do a test fit later.

Does anyone know if they do a 12 x 17 Campy Clone?

Talking of ones that got away - when I was 17 I had the opportunity to buy a MK1 Lotus Escort for $600 that needed a little bit of work done. I had $400 and asked to borrow the other $200 from my dad - he declined my generous offer on the basis he hated working on the MK1 XL 1300 Escort he had. By the time I'd worked as hard as I could and got the other $200 it was sold. Complete back then they had it valued at 30k.

The PI wheels on my car are 12x17 Campi clones, but I think they're the GT wheel clones.

I Know that PI sells some Campi clones in the same sizes.
They are aluminum, not magnesium though.

They DID make some really wide original campis, magnesium, but I THINK they were 15's, like 12x15 or 13x15, and hard to find tires for these days I think, AND I think the offsets were for the GT cars with wider stances (flared race cars).

Flared, wider stance or not, 335 rear tires look bada$$ from behind.

http://www.pim.net/Wheels2007.html

I have my 73 red pantera for sale on this site also. The second one I have owned. Stock body and 17" campy look alike wheels from PI motorsports. Car completely gone thru similar to yours. But I still won't sell for less than what I think it is worth. I only have 650 miles since engine and trans rebuild. But I guess the collectors are interested in the stock ones with few or no upgrades. Like you I am an enthusiast. I like all the upgrades and performance. Also the upgraded ones ride so much better. I will probably just keep mine also. The people in the pantera community are wonderful and helpful. Hope you get your Shelby, they're also nice cars

Don, very nice looking 73. Your asking price is more than fair. No way I think you should take less. You are for sure right about the ride quality and especially the feel. Not that a stock car is bad, just that the upgrades seem to have such a positive impact on the performance of the car and how it feels. Maybe why so many parts are available for sort of a small market. When I put my car together not many cars had all the chassis stiffener kits in them. Big tires seem to have mandated them for most I think now. Especially with wheels like your 17" PI campys. I know the roll bar helped my car a bit at least for my driving ability, a chassis stiffener kit would be way better. Maybe if I keep the car.

Don't seem to have any interest from the Shelby crowd. Not one response on the FordGT500 forum or Craigslist add. But maybe that's to be expected. I am always surprised the number of customers that come to my shop and see the Pantera sitting in the old show room and have absolutely no idea of what kind of car it is. Panteras, the forgotten Ford. In any case the more I talk about the old Pantera the less I think about a new Shelby. Almost start to think about how I always wanted to get a nice GT40 replica some day.

Have a nice Thanksgiving and good luck with your sale also, Keith.

Remember Panteras are very rare. Besides mine I see one about every two years when I go to the San Francisco bay area. I see lots of old Chevelles, camaros, mustangs, etc. Happy Thanksgiving. Nice talking Panteras with you.

Well I have had my 72 Pantera listed for about a month now. Not a lot of serious inquiries and now I seem to be attracting brokers and consignment houses, joy. I had a couple Shelby owners contact me but non with a glass roof optioned car like I am looking for. I have located a couple cars I would consider but would like to have the room available for another car if I purchase one. Given the fact that I have had the car approaching 20 years now I am in a position to consider offers of what someone else may think my car is worth, so off to Ebay it will go. It would be nice for it to go to someone who would appreciate it. As always thank you for taking a look at the thread, Keith.

It was suggested that I place the Pantera on a service such as Ebay. Should be interesting.
Ebay listing
Keith.

Well its over 30k and climbing. Despite my not understanding the description editing feature and being listed for under 24 hours. I do have someone coming this Saturday to look at the car however. Former Pantera owner and a Pantera enthusiast, which is nice. Maybe the auction will end early. I put a new yellow top Optima in it this morning and a case of Brad Penn oil showed up so the old girl can get some new life blood in her.

Keith.

I think it is going to go for a lot more than 35.

These posts are all just criticisms that we all must survive when we go to sell.

Why others who have a Pantera also are being stressed because "you" are getting way too much for the car is beyond me? I don't understand that? A rising tide floats all boats?

Everything works for you and against you at the same time. Originality vs. modified.

It's always 'too something'? You are either too tall or too short? Too smart or too stupid? etc, etc, etc. Is anything or anyone ever just right?

I see it as similar to getting a job based upon your resume? The same credentials that got you hired are going to be the reason that the company fires you when 'they" deem it necessary and you are now in the way?

You just saved them the effort and documented it for them in your own resume.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I think it is going to go for a lot more than 35.

These posts are all just criticisms that we all must survive when we go to sell.

Why others who have a Pantera also are being stressed because "you" are getting way too much for the car is beyond me? I don't understand that? A rising tide floats all boats?

Everything works for you and against you at the same time. Originality vs. modified.

It's always 'too something'? You are either too tall or too short? Too smart or too stupid? etc, etc, etc. Is anything or anyone ever just right?

I see it as similar to getting a job based upon your resume? The same credentials that got you hired are going to be the reason that the company fires you when 'they" deem it necessary and you are now in the way?

You just saved them the effort and documented it for them in your own resume.

Yes, I think your on the money with originality vs modified. It may always be too something. For me being I built the car a number of years back and built it to suite me I guess I did not really think about it being to anything to anyone else.

How does it all work out when it comes time to sell? Thinking about putting on my big boy pants and makinging it a straight out auction. 110 watchers, 3 thousand views, its over 50K now and ends in 4 days around noon. Might make a nice Christmas present for somebody.

Keith.

quote:

Originally posted by kghills:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I think it is going to go for a lot more than 35.

These posts are all just criticisms that we all must survive when we go to sell.

Why others who have a Pantera also are being stressed because "you" are getting way too much for the car is beyond me? I don't understand that? A rising tide floats all boats?

Everything works for you and against you at the same time. Originality vs. modified.

It's always 'too something'? You are either too tall or too short? Too smart or too stupid? etc, etc, etc. Is anything or anyone ever just right?

I see it as similar to getting a job based upon your resume? The same credentials that got you hired are going to be the reason that the company fires you when 'they" deem it necessary and you are now in the way?

You just saved them the effort and documented it for them in your own resume.

Yes, I think your on the money with originality vs modified. It may always be too something. For me being I built the car a number of years back and built it to suite me I guess I did not really think about it being to anything to anyone else.

How does it all work out when it comes time to sell? Thinking about putting on my big boy pants and makinging it a straight out auction. 110 watchers, 3 thousand views, its over 50K now and ends in 4 days around noon. Might make a nice Christmas present for somebody.

Keith.

There is definitely something in the air? I wouldn't make too quick of a decision. The buy it now is reasonable in my view.

You simply can't build one for that money now.

Most recently the Ford GT's were "kicking around" for about $125k.

You would be pressed to find one under $250k at the moment.

There are definitely people on the hunt right now for Panteras BEFORE they become un-affordable.

You don't turn down this kind of a car because you don't like the wheels?

Well, my Pantera hit reserve. As long as the winning bidder actually pays for it, she will have a new owner and I will have room for a new Shelby.

Congratulations Keith, it's a clean car. Hopefully it will go higher for you in the final hours. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Tim S:
Congratulations Keith, it's a clean car. Hopefully it will go higher for you in the final hours. Good luck!

Thank you Tim. There appear to be about 142 watchers. I'm hoping there will be a little more activity in the final moments. If not, I guess my reserve will be what it's worth.

Keith.

Well, I guess that ebay auctuon was a waste of time. Apparently there were no serious bidders. At least the guy who hit my reserve was decent enough to call me at the end of the auction. I guess having the reserve so far under the buy it now was not the best idea. Seems to have caused a bit of despair in some guys marriage.

Well back to the auction block it goes, new format. Wish me luck I guess. Car must not be worth as much as I thought.

Keith.

So what really happened?

You met your reserve, and the car appears to be sold at a price of 60K....

Seems like the eBay auction did what it was supposed to do, based on the parameters the seller set up prior to auction start.....

Did the auction winner back out after submitting a winning bid?



Rocky

I'm sorry to hear it didn't sell Keith. I thought it sold for 60k. Should go for more. You have a nice solid car. It's just a matter of time before someone buys it at the price you want. I noticed Mecum is auctioning 5 panteras in January. Should be interesting to see what they go for.

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
So what really happened?

You met your reserve, and the car appears to be sold at a price of 60K....

Seems like the eBay auction did what it was supposed to do, based on the parameters the seller set up prior to auction start.....

Did the auction winner back out after submitting a winning bid?



Rocky

Rocky, the short answer is he did not expect to hit the reserve with his bid. To his credit he did call me immediately after the auction and explain his situation. I'm not going to get to hung up on it at this point. I relisted the car as a straight auction. That shouldn't confuse people as much hopefully. In any case depending on the weather I plan to pick up a 2013 GT500 next week. The Shelby might just need to sit in the trailer till spring when I can make a little more room if the Pantera does not sell.

I still think the Pantera should be an 85k type car. I would think 60 is being very fair and would hope it goes to a good home.

Keith.

Thanks - Sorry to hear it.

Too bad people are out there just "playing with the system" instead of being serious about what they are doing.

Good luck next time.

Rocky

Rocky, the short answer is he did not expect to hit the reserve with his bid. To his credit he did call me immediately after the auction and explain his situation.


Is this a case for Ebay?
When you are bidding you hope you win?

Did you give the winner a bad feedback?
otherwise the feedback registration is also nothing where you can trust on.
Simon

quote:

Originally posted by Simon:
Rocky, the short answer is he did not expect to hit the reserve with his bid. To his credit he did call me immediately after the auction and explain his situation.


Is this a case for Ebay?
When you are bidding you hope you win?

Did you give the winner a bad feedback?
otherwise the feedback registration is also nothing where you can trust on.
Simon

Hey Simon. Yeah, might be a case, I don't know, but if the buyer doesn't or can't complete the deal I don't really know what happens. I guess it's to near Christmas for me to pursue. I just agreed to cancel the transaction. Maybe my fault for having the spread between reserve and buy it now 25k. A fair amount of people were bidding while feeling "safe" maybe. Changed that this time around.

You know, kind of a shame. It's really not a bad car. I was pretty sure there would have been more serious interest at my reserve. Shows what I know. Not that much any more.

Keith.

Keith,

You did nothing wrong and eBay worked to a point, what failed is a deadbeat bidder. He has admitted that he had no real interest in buying the car, but bid anyway just for fun. Well in any real World auction he'd be buying that car or being sued, unfortunately this is one area where eBay fails and more people are bidding on items they have no intention of buying.

If the bidder had really been surprised he hit the reserve then he could have retracted his bid immediately as there is function for that. Instead he let it ride 3 days until the auction ended. You must contact eBay and file a non paying bidder report, or you will be charged selling fees as in their eyes the auction completed and the deadbeat gets to go ruin someone else's auction in future.

I have had items relisted on eBay 3-4 times, eventually you get to the right buyer, just bear with it. Don't forget the auction also ended over Christmas and many people are focused on the holidays and family.

Personally I also think you'd attract more potential buyers if you went ahead and removed the roll bar, reinstalled the oem seats and an all black steering wheel, although you offer to swap it out many buyers can't see past what's there.

The market may be softening a bit, all stock is still fetching the big money, it will be interesting to see what the 6 Pantera's at Mecum in January fetch.

Good luck,
Julian

quote:

Originally posted by Joules:
Keith,

You did nothing wrong and eBay worked to a point, what failed is a deadbeat bidder. He has admitted that he had no real interest in buying the car, but bid anyway just for fun. Well in any real World auction he'd be buying that car or being sued, unfortunately this is one area where eBay fails and more people are bidding on items they have no intention of buying.

If the bidder had really been surprised he hit the reserve then he could have retracted his bid immediately as there is function for that. Instead he let it ride 3 days until the auction ended. You must contact eBay and file a non paying bidder report, or you will be charged selling fees as in their eyes the auction completed and the deadbeat gets to go ruin someone else's auction in future.

I have had items relisted on eBay 3-4 times, eventually you get to the right buyer, just bear with it. Don't forget the auction also ended over Christmas and many people are focused on the holidays and family.

Personally I also think you'd attract more potential buyers if you went ahead and removed the roll bar, reinstalled the oem seats and an all black steering wheel, although you offer to swap it out many buyers can't see past what's there.

The market may be softening a bit, all stock is still fetching the big money, it will be interesting to see what the 6 Pantera's at Mecum in January fetch.

Good luck,
Julian

Personally I just want to move beyond the first auction and dealing with it. I cancelled the transaction and am moving on. I had some time today and removed my Sparco seats and the roll bar. I updated my Ebay auction and Craigslist add. I am getting some calls and feel it should move to a new baby sitter soon. It looks so plain with the stock seats.

Keith.

Hi, you have a great car. Back in June I would have picked it up had it been on EBay. I bought my red 72 on eBay for about the same price so don't despair with the service. You have to wade through the mud a little to get to your buyer. I prefer the yellow and chrome bumper but the belts and steering wheel will put some folks off. If you want your price buy a black steering wheel for less than $200. Replacing the belts with some black ones won't hurt either. I wouldn't take it personally. It is just marketing. With these cars you have a smaller pool of buyers than a Ferrari or Porsche so it just makes sense to bring it back as close to conservative as possible that is reasonable..Good luck with the sale.

Best,

Shashi

quote:

I wouldn't take it personally. It is just marketing.

Ya-know, interestingly enough, I do think there is some truth to this, and I guess I understand the buyer reasons that if they are going to spend that much on a car they want things just so.

I come at it a bit differently. If you find a nice car that you’d otherwise be willing to spend $60k on, would you really walk from it because of the color of the steering wheel or seat belts? I barely noticed them. Why not just buy it and replace them if they don't suit you? Of all the reasons to own a Pantera or buy or pass on a particular car, the easily changeable items don’t make my list.

Sort of reminds me of selling my house and people saying they’d buy it except they didn’t like the color of the paint on the dining room or kid's bedroom walls. Same thing, walk from a six figure purchase over the cost of a gallon of paint? So when I asked what color they preferred and offered to paint it if they signed a purchase contract I concluded they weren't really buyers.

Best,
Kelly

Thanks Kelly, you look at the sale of a car a lot like I do I think. However it was easy enough to pull the roll bar and swap seats. I see your in Iowa. Not that far from me in Southern WI. Are you familiar with Cory at Collectors Choice? He always used to have a lot of Panteras and GT40s around his shop years ago. Now he seems to have mainly Vipers through.

Interesting to see if the car gets any bids. Lots of watchers and views. I'm in Myrtle Beach at the moment picking up a highly modified GT500. Not sure where to put it when get home but I suppose that's not a super bad problem to have.

Happy New Year, Keith.