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#1239

kidkidMember
Hi to all…

I was so impolite to join this forum without introducing myself first. Bad start I know, and since you never get a second chance to make a first impression… woops.

Anyways, I’m Kid (which is NOT a forum nickname), somewhere in my 40’s, and living in Belgium. So far I’ve been mainly into Alfa Romeo’s (I owned six at some point), but with other then a general interest in Italian cars and bikes, also a serious interest in huge V8’s, and the sportscar era kind of cars (GT40, Lambo Miura, Porshe 917, Can Am’s etc). From the cars of that generation, the Pantera always has been one of my favourites. Whenever I saw one, my hart skipped a beat. Now just a couple of days ago, I bought me #1239, a pushbutton, build on January 2 1971, thought only registered for the first time in December 73. Its history in between build date, first registration, and the year 77 is still unclear, but the car spend its life in Austria from August 77 until the end of 2007. It then crossed the border to Belgium. The car is in good general condition, though needs some care. Little by little I plan to get it back into a condition a car of this kind deserves, and will most likely take it down to bare metal one day. The picture attached is one of the initial add back in 2007. The spoiler, roof antenna will have to disappear one day, and the louvers in the front changed.
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markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
Congratulations and welcome!

Your car looks great and no matter how you decide to change, upgrade or maintain it, you will likely find the help and advice you need here. I trust you already know about Mike Daily's sire (www.panteraplace.com) which is an invaluable resource of information.

Enjoy the ride!

Mark
kidkidMember
quote:
Originally posted by Backmarker:
Hey Kid, Welcome, Italian cars and bikes, looks like we have something in common.........


I've been into racing (in my jonger days) with Ducati, working on mostly Italian bikes off and on, and been a mechanic for a team racing Aprilia's for a while. Due to my work I had to quit working on bikes though...
kidkidMember
Added from an other thread...

quote:
Originally posted by Denis C:
Must missed that one. WELCOME. A few different things on your car still verry niicce....

Denis


Well, due to the huge licence plates in use in some European countries, the licene plate lights and (and how do you call those other things in English...?) got relocated by one of the previous owners, but plan to get that fixed in the future. Soon we'll have a choice of what licence plates to use (the wide one as shown on the pic - or a more American style one), and then of course I'll drop the ugly wide version.

Officially it can't be a GTS since build in January 71, but the car's history is pretty vague in between date build and its first use somewhere in 73. Maybe somebody bought it, and asked to upgrade it to GTS specs (at least painted like), I really don't know - fact is that it had this GTS "finish" in 77 already, as I have a picture dated and stamped back in 77 and showing so...
Last edited by kid
kidkidMember
quote:
Originally posted by DeTom:
If it was aaembled in 1977, after the Ford folks split, from parts they had as spares, it could indeed be a factory GTS. Measure your rear sway bar diameter to see. Also if it has a holley carburator, it may be a factory GTS. Does it have a clock? Blacked out trim?


Aha, interesting...
Can't measure anything right now, as I'm travelling for work (currently in Spain), but will do as soon as I get home.

Not sure about the carb - it got replaced by a Weber, but still have the what I think original one - the engine once got upgraded, and one of the parts replaced was the carb.

I do have indeed a small (blaked out trim) clock in between speedo and rev counter.
D detom (Guest)
Thanks Kid, I would love to have you over. Only problem is yes my car is still in Jonesborough, but I am in Memphis working. My car is a euro-GTS. 4903. I would love for you to take it back home with you where it belongs. It has all the gauges in Italian. I always hoped the original owner would look for it and I would give it to him. Well not for free, but at a good price anyway.
kidkidMember
Home from a 3 weeks works trip...

Can't find anything which refers to Holley on the carb...

Rear swaybar measures about a 0.8inch in diameter. What are the different diameters in use then?

quote:
Originally posted by DeTom:
I would love for you to take it back home with you where it belongs. It has all the gauges in Italian. I always hoped the original owner would look for it and I would give it to him. Well not for free, but at a good price anyway.


Nice to see you care so much for the car.

I do have English center gauges, but would like to change that. Italian car needs Italian gauges and nothing less Wink
D detom (Guest)
The rear sway bar on the GTS was thicker. I think it was .89" but can,t remember for sure. The carburaters for the GTS were made by Holloey just for the GTS only. It is a 650 cfm double pumper with mechanical secondaries. The L panteras were autolite caburaters. Other differances were 8" wide campis on front and 10" campis on the rear. The girling brakes were larger and more powerfull on the euro-GTS. I think the transsmision ratios were different from the Pantera Ls too. There were a whole bunch of little subtle differances which can be quite irritating because you go to put a brand new part on your car you ordered and it does,t fit so you call the vendor and he says like" well you didn't tell me it was a euro-GTS because it used a different this or that so you have to send the part back and get another one instead.
You have to love the car or things like that will drive you crazy. If I ever part out my car, I will let you buy the gauges from me. ;-)
lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
they are push buttons and a GTS

NO, this is not very likely AT ALL.

The GTS option did not appear until well after the very early pushbutton Panteras were made.

Unless as Kid mentioned, someone returned this car to the factory for a proper GTS conversion, this is just a pushbutton with some painting changes and an added rocker panel decal.

Please remember our cars (for better or worse) have always been viewed as fair game for ANY modification the current owner feels like doing.

In common car guy terms, there are a lot of Group 4, GTS, GT5, and GT5S clones in the Pantera world.

But in our world, there are no hidden clues in the VIN (not counting just a few exceptions) to tell us what is real and what is not.

It can cause a lot of incorrect assumptions about what any given car truly is in the sense of what they were when they left the factory.

A very prime case of Buyer Beware.

Larry
Last edited by lf-tp2511
kidkidMember
quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
In August 77 my car looked like this.


Actually, the picture could be older than August 77. This picture has been used to register the car back in 77 (dated and stamped), but that doesn't necessarily means the picture was taken in 77.

One thing I could maybe do - try to track down when the Austrian licence plate shown on the picture was in use. Back in 77 they also knew the car was for the first time used in December 73, so there had to be - and maybe still are - somewhere documents which do prove so...

Maybe I should put one of my freinds who does spend quite some time in Austria to work Cool
kidkidMember
quote:
Originally posted by Polymath:
So Kid's car and this one (see link below) could be very similar in that they are push buttons and a GTS?

Pushbutton GTS


Something which did get my attention...
The "GTS" description on that car.

On the left side, the "GTS" part is located at the rear wheel side, on the right side towards the front wheel. Mine does have "GTS" at both sides back to the rear wheel.

I have only two vents in the center of the dash, this one three. I do have a clock.

Pictures "stolen" from that site...woops Razzer


lf-tp2511lf-tp2511Member
quote:
What does this expression means?

First off, the 'sugar scoop' is a nickname for the spoiler mounted at the forward edge of the rear deck.

"Not really feeling" is like saying-

I'm not too thrilled with the sugar scoop.

Got it? Wink

And your English is no doubt a hell of a lot better than our Dutch, or German or French, which appear to also be official languages of Belgium.

Larry
larrywlarrywMember
I'd always thought that there were no all black Ford era Panteras offered by DT.

If so, that car was repainted and someone other than DT applied those decals, no?

Were any L-M dealers known to or allowed to dress up a ford era car with GTS embellishments, and sell it as so, perhaps as some kind of dealer installed option?
kidkidMember
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

First off, the 'sugar scoop' is a nickname for the spoiler mounted at the forward edge of the rear deck.

"Not really feeling" is like saying-

I'm not too thrilled with the sugar scoop.

Got it? Wink

And your English is no doubt a hell of a lot better than our Dutch, or German or French, which appear to also be official languages of Belgium.

Larry


Aha - I Googled for the expression, but couldn't really find anything making sense to me... Big Grin

I'm Flemish, know my French, manange myself in German, and know the basiscs of a couple of other languages. English is my second best, although I still have soooo much to learn... Frowner
D detom (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by larryw:
I'd always thought that there were no all black Ford era Panteras offered by DT.

If so, that car was repainted and someone other than DT applied those decals, no?

Were any L-M dealers known to or allowed to dress up a ford era car with GTS embellishments, and sell it as so, perhaps as some kind of dealer installed option?


You are right, the Ford era GTS was not offered in all black. My GTS is all black also, but I had an expert look at my car and he said they had masked the decal when they repainted it. How he knew that, I dunno, but that expert was none other than Bill Gaino, known here as "Last Pushbutton".
I think my car was originally gray and black. Mine has the coffee table wing on back and I know that wasn't original either.
Some of the fun of owning a Pantera is just trying to figure out what it is you do have. Big Grin
kidkidMember
That is interesting! Cool

Wonder how they did get an early Euro car through emission control in the US...

One thing I note at first sight - the more straight (horizontal) exhaust tips. As far as I know, the early cars had exhausts with the tips facing more upwards.

Did your car came with any old documentation, pics and such?
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