quote:
Beautifully preserved 1974 Pantera for sale.
37,000 miles, all original





Has the whole world gone mad?

I guess I missed the memo on the change made to the definition of the phrase - "all original"

Would YOU buy a car from a seller who is so obviously out of touch with reality??

Pass

Larry
Exotic Classics is honored to offer this very rare a very fast 1974 DeTomaso Pantera GTS. Once owned and setup by Pantera racecar driver Walter Dethier. One of only 138 imported into the US in 1974. The 1974 Pantera GTS was considered the fastest production car manufactured in 1974. Some of the history of the second owner, Mr. Dethier, was that he acquired this GTS in 1977 from its original owner which had only 15,000 miles on the odometer. Also, Mr. Dethier being a factory driver, wanted to set his new GTS up similar to the racecars that he drove for Pantera. He upgraded and installed injected Weber carburetors, headers, as well as brakes and suspension. Dethier also performed a mild engine refresh in 1982, and a full rebuild 400 miles ago in 2010. This service also included a new clutch and a rebuild of the 5-speed ZF gearbox. During his 33 years of ownership, the Pantera has been resprayed once, and the leather and carpets redone as well. Finally, Dethier also installed custom carbon fiber front and rear decklids. The original black decklids are available with the car.

Powered by a 5.8 litre 351 Ford Cleveland engine. The solid lifter, 4 bolt main, was mated to a 5-speed gated ZF gearbox. With four two-barrel injected Weber carburetors and high rise manifold. The 351 Cleveland is putting out 435HP and has a top speed of 170MPH.The Ghia design body was fitted with factory pop riveted fiberglass fender flares, European bumpers and factory Campagnolo wheels. Other features include unibody construction, four-wheel independent suspension, rack and pinion steering, power windows, AC, power disc brakes.

All of the US 1974 Pantera GTS imported into the US were painted dark red. Current miles are 37,034. Over the years Exotic Classics has sold many Panteras, however this GTS is probably the best driving Pantera we have ever represented. Excellent, rust-free Panteras are very hard to find, and with only 110 imported into the US this is certainly not the one to miss!

Questions or concerns please call or text me 516-655-0940
fyi....all of the 1974 pantera gts that were imported into the united states were either silver,maroon or goldenrod yellow. if your gts is red like the pictures show it must be a european model.beautiful car.just my 2 cents for whatever its worth, mike...
quote:
Originally posted by king:
fyi....all of the 1974 pantera gts that were imported into the united states were either silver,maroon or goldenrod yellow. if your gts is red like the pictures show it must be a european model.beautiful car.just my 2 cents for whatever its worth, mike...


Mike, the serial number is showing a GT in it. A Euro GTS would not have that. Only a US GTS does.

I don't know if the seller is still claiming the car to be 100% original BUT to my knowledge NO US Panteras were equipped from Detomaso with 10" Campis in the back.

In fact, if you look in the US Pantera parts book, there is NO part number for them through the Ford system.

Personally I do remember seeing several US GTS cars new, and those ALL had the 10's on them.

So I guess this is all open to debate but I will say one thing, the Marti report on them WILL NOT show 10" Campis on the window sticker.

What colors were available? Don't ask me. Never saw a yellow or a red. Just Silver. Maybe a very dark red or maroon? They weren't exactly common and the ones I saw were all hovering around Rockland County and Bob Grossman's "exotic" car dealership. More often then not going the opposite direction and disappearing rapidly.

Shouldn't the blacked out paint show metallic in it for a factory US GTS?

It isn't just wheels. US cars had the big bumpers. Never had burlwood dash boards.

I suppose post the Marti report for documentation on those kind of claims?

To me it stands as it is without the necessity of making any kind of exaggerations at all which you can not defend.

Sales people often stir a hornets nest over making inaccurate claims because of their exuberance to sell. I get that. It isn't necessary and it just throws up a caution flag.

This one certainly has some of the "flavor" of the original for sure but is hardly original as shown now.

Want me to start listing the obvious? Oh...I guess I already started that right? Did I mention US cars never had the European roof antenna?

Nice car. Very nice car. It stands VERY well by itself without false claims, is a US GTS and IS going to sell on that. No need to have Pinocchio's nose growing needlessly. Wink

Personally I don't think the price is out of line at all from what I see either.

Attachments

Photos (1)
quote:
One of only 138 imported into the US in 1974. He upgraded and installed injected Weber carburetors, ,,,, and with only 110 imported into the US


From the beginning of the ad to the end production dropped by 28 units , and "injected Weber carburetors" ?
Does that ZF happen to be one of the rare variable ratio units?
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
quote:
Beautifully preserved 1974 Pantera for sale.
37,000 miles, all original





Has the whole world gone mad?

I guess I missed the memo on the change made to the definition of the phrase - "all original"

Would YOU buy a car from a seller who is so obviously out of touch with reality??

Pass

Larry


Many, many deviations from 'all original' for sure. Wood trim, blacked bumpers, carburetion (or injection, depending on which sentence you read), US VIN but a Euro antenna, etc.

Then there's 'Fastest Production Car', so I wonder if anyone told Road & Track about this?

A great car deserves a knowledgeable representative, not a partially informed salesperson.
quote:
Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
quote:
Beautifully preserved 1974 Pantera for sale.
37,000 miles, all original





Has the whole world gone mad?

I guess I missed the memo on the change made to the definition of the phrase - "all original"

Would YOU buy a car from a seller who is so obviously out of touch with reality??

Pass

Larry


I seriously doubt that anyone is going to buy a Pantera who is not knowledgeable on the Marque?

Salesman are salesman. They are kind of like "Presidential Candidates". They will make all sorts of nonsensical statements and promises that they can't deliver upon.

It's obvious that the critics are not going to buy this car.

I don't understand the rhetoric here? Are you trying to intimidate the seller to get a better price on a car that you are not going to buy anyway? What's up with that?

Considering the documented recent trend in selling prices already talked about here on this Forum, the price is not out of line.

Maybe the trend in this country IS just to be a bully just like the current Presidential Candidates?

Are you going to have the entire White House Press corps banned for asking questions that the people want to know about?

I don't get it?
quote:
Knowledgeable posters can't stand to see a lying salesman/politician dupe the innocent. Seems like good public service to me: warn the unwitting the car is NOT what it is claimed to be.


There is a famous axiom ascribed to Robert Heinlein (Heinlein's Razor) - "Never ascribe to avarice what can adequately be explained by ignorance".....

It is easy for someone not 100% familiar with our vehicles to type up a bunch of words - of course they would want to post them on this site.

I agree with "Caveat Emptor" (Let the buyer beware), but on the other hand, this looks like a very nice car that I would like to own.

Anyway - It makes sense to point out discrepancies between the write-up and the photos... but maybe in a slightly less adversarial manner?

Rocky
quote:
lying salesman/politician dupe the innocent



I didn't say don't point out discrepancies between the ad copy and reality.....

Honestly, I think that we want to encourage people to post cars for sale here, even if they are not as familiar with the marque as we are....
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
quote:
lying salesman/politician dupe the innocent



I didn't say don't point out discrepancies between the ad copy and reality.....

Honestly, I think that we want to encourage people to post cars for sale here, even if they are not as familiar with the marque as we are....
Hello Rocky; With a simple Google search a vast wealth of knowledge can be garnered on seemingly an infinite range of subjects, in this specific example the DeTomaso Pantera being offered for sale.

I only speak for myself, & when I see numerous GROSS errors being issued as fact, when those errors could have been avoided ALL together with the minimum exerted amount of effort on the seller's part, that's when I call into question the integrity of the seller, as we collectively are not talking about an incidental purchase, but rather a considerable expenditure of funds.
All this is fine I suppose but I fear that what is being created is the "Pantera Secret Police".

I am well versed in the Shelby Secret Police. I know how to handle them but unfortunately "violence begets violence".

I am past "Hitler's inner circle". He is personally "beholding to me". Some of The "Shelby Secret Police" have been neutered and at least will not be able to procreate.

If they continue though, they WILL do it from afar and not as representatives of SAAC in any way or form.

They in fact have a new commanding officer in charge as a result.



The thing I fear here is that will happen with Panteras. There are indications of that here already.

You HAVE TO BE a knowledgeable buyer. YOU have to be able to see through the BS and identify exactly what you are looking at. No one else can do that for you.

If you aren't and you thought you found something special that no one else knew about then you likely screwed yourself? I see justice in that.

You thought you were a wiseass but you really are only a dumbass.



NO ONE needs someone running around in a cape, mask and spandex tights proclaiming that THEY are this self proclaimed secret super hero that is here saving all others due to his/her own divine magnificence, i.e., magnanimous.

Even if it is just running around over a keyboard.

If you need to do that, do that in private or do that while institutionalized and under the treatment of a Medical Doctor and staff. It really is providing a dis-service to the entire Marque.

They probably can keep you in a group of others with the same affliction. So you won't be alone.



I can save no one. A basis of "lifesaving" is that you can't save someone else if you can't save yourself first. That should be self evident to all?



Mark. Why haven't you re-introduced yourself ? We all know it is you?
I feel like we can do the Pantera community a service by fairly evaluating vehicles posted for sale.

But excoriating sellers - who's motivation is difficult to discern in a single post - will not encourage other sellers to want to risk the "Salem Witch Trials", if their advert is not deemed acceptable.

Rocky
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
I feel like we can do the Pantera community a service by fairly evaluating vehicles posted for sale.

But excoriating sellers - who's motivation is difficult to discern in a single post - will not encourage other sellers to want to risk the "Salem Witch Trials", if their advert is not deemed acceptable.

Rocky
Hello Rocky; "Salem Witch Trials" were about falsely accusing people for crimes they did not commit nor could have committed ( turning people into frogs as an example)

I have read no where there being any examples of falsely accusing the seller of anything other than bringing to light,the numerous erroneous statements he has made in his advertisement.

As an example...

"The 1974 Pantera GTS was considered the fastest production car manufactured in 1974"

In american form the 1974 Pantera GTS was capable "theoretically of 156mph"

de Tomaso Pantera GTS, model year 1974, version for North America U.S.
2-door coupe body type
RWD (rear-wheel drive), manual 5-speed gearbox
petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 5766 cm3 / 351.9 cui, advertised power: 198.5 kW / 266 hp / 270 PS ( SAE net ), Torque net: 408 Nm / 301 lb-ft
characteristic dimensions: outside length: 4453 mm / 175.3 in, wheelbase: 2499 mm / 98.4 in
how fast is this car ? top speed: 251 km/h (156 mph) (theoretical);
accelerations: 0- 60 mph 6 s; 0- 100 km/h 6.3 s (a-c simulation); 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 14.4 s (a-c simulation)
fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c: 17.1 l/100km / 16.5 mpg (imp.) / 13.7 mpg (U.S.) / 5.8 km/l


The 1974 Lamborghini Countach LP400 was capable of 186MPH...

Lamborghini Countach LP400, model year 1974, version for Europe North America , worldwide
2-door coupe body type
RWD (rear-wheel drive), manual 5-speed gearbox
petrol (gasoline) engine with displacement: 3929 cm3 / 239.9 cui, advertised power: 276 kW / 370 hp / 375 PS ( DIN ), Torque net: 361 Nm / 266 lb-ft
characteristic dimensions: outside length: 4140 mm / 163 in, wheelbase: 2450 mm / 96.5 in
how fast is this car ? top speed: 300 km/h (186 mph) (declared by factory);
accelerations: 0- 60 mph 5.1 s, 0- 100 km/h 5.4 s (declared by factory), 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 13.2 s (a-c simulation)
fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c: 18.4 l/100km / 15.4 mpg (imp.) / 12.8 mpg (U.S.) / 5.4 km/l

Doesn't take a rocket scientist is come to the factual conclusion that 186mph is 30mph FASTER than 156mph!

I can understand the facts being muddled in an advertisement for a 1974 Ford Pinto being offered for $2,800.00.

I expect a quantum leap of accuracy in the advertisement for a $124,000.00 car from any manufacturer.

This kind of scrutiny is not solely found here on Pantera International, as it is the "norm", rather than the "Salem Witch Trials" exception you deem it as being.

Your mileage may vary.
I see that the trial has begun.

Let me explain to the uninitiated that the problem is that sellers will sometimes use terms that some consider unspeakable.

In using them openly, it becomes heresy. Then the tradition would to find the defendant guilty of witchcraft and be sentenced to be burned at the stake.

The justification is "for the greater good". One must protect the innocents?

The accusers these days tend to sit in their closets dressed in their Super Hero costumes.

A mask, a cape and a full body suit made of spandex.

It is best that they do. Most don't wax and their pubies stick though.

What colors are your spandex Speedunlimited?

You know about the cellulite showing through too, right? Wink
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I see that the trial has begun.

Let me explain to the uninitiated that the problem is that sellers will sometimes use terms that some consider unspeakable.

In using them openly, it becomes heresy. Then the tradition would to find the defendant guilty of witchcraft and be sentenced to be burned at the stake.

The justification is "for the greater good". One must protect the innocents?

The accusers these days tend to sit in their closets dressed in their Super Hero costumes.

A mask, a cape and a full body suit made of spandex.

It is best that they do. Most don't wax and their pubies stick though.

What colors are your spandex Speedunlimited?

You know about the cellulite showing through too, right? Wink
Gave up the Spandex, as I developed a NASTY rash in the "unmentionable place".

Now I find myself gravitating to PVC & Leather! like Al Pacino in "Cruising"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR7y7g8h1y4
Good morning folks:
Happy New Year to all.
I have placed my search for a Pantera on hold until later on in the Spring, for I too have grown very skeptical about the offers and descriptions of some of these cars. Until I am fully satisfied after driving and inspecting the vehicle I will not drop a cent, this is how I have done it in the past and I have not been wrong in my decisions.

I have several cars in mind (Panteras) and non Panteras. I really appreciate to see all this input for it strengthen my position about my decision making process.

I agree with many of your postings that a salesman ought to be as honest and concise as he/she can when describing a car; lying or flowering the car with extraneous adjectives will only deflate the interest of the buyer. I recently exchanged several lengthy emails with Mike Drew and he reinforced my position 200%, thanks Mike for your integrity.
Sincerely
Lou (Basque1)
Hello Basque1; You are extremely fortunate to have placed yourself in the advantageous position of having Mike Drew as a confidant & adviser.

Mike is the "Creme de la Creme" First Place

Interested in knowing of the others cars you have interest in acquiring.
Hello speedunlimited:
I know the guy is amazing and with great integrity, he would not take a penny for his work for the mark, for he does not want to compromise his judgement, I respect that tremendously.
I will keep you all posted of my progress
Regards
Lou



quote:
Originally posted by speedunlimited:
Hello Basque1; You are extremely fortunate to have placed yourself in the advantageous position of having Mike Drew as a confidant & adviser.

Mike is the "Creme de la Creme" First Place

Interested in knowing of the others cars you have interest in acquiring.

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