Will everyone bear with me for a little while longer, and I will then post a separate topic on the Pantera. Thanks
Wow, all I have to say is wow. This post was brought to my attention from a few guys who I sent over to this forum who were looking to buy a Pantera. There has been alot of interest lately in these cars from people who were interested in early model camaros and chevelles who can no longer afford to purchase them because they have have out priced themselves.
Some of you might remember me as I posted my 71 Pantera project car for a asking price of $22,000.I had something like 40 replies all asking for pictures. The truth being only 3 of 40 were willing to pay me the price. Unfortunately they were all over seas. The logistics of of reassembling the car and transporting the car to the docks for transport weren't realistic for me.I too received alot of slack about my asking price from certain people on this forum.Even to the point of harassment and I do mean harassment.Why?, so they could knock the sale of my car down to the point of a steal for themselves. In my mind my price wasn't a steal but a fair one.I had over $7000 in brand new parts alone. Not to mention hundreds of hours in stripping, treating and painting the entire undercarriage of the car.Some of you know what hours alone it takes in stripping the tar from your engine compartment never mind an entire car.I didn't include that in my asking price.Not all Panteras are rust buckets, mine wasn't. Truth, it was stripped down to bare metal for all to see. I know a few guys who have bought these so called $35,000 cars only to find out later they needed all new rocker panels and serious rear inner wheel housing reconstruction. Cha ching$$.There are owners who spend $3 for a slave rebuilding kit to rebuild a pitted slave cylinder and then there are guys who spend $100 for a stainless sleeved unit.There are many $35,000 cars for sale with the same old 30 year old brake fluid and rubber lines!Other guys spend $1600 for a whole updated system that actually stops the car.Truth, there are guys who spend money on their cars and there are ones who don't.The ones who do deserve top price.
Its true this is a sand box but you guys really have to see it from the outside the box.What happened in this post was an embarassment.Its an open forum that anyone should join and feel comfortable(edit)about posting cars or parts. If someone wants to post their car for sale they shouldn't be beat down or mobbed for their asking price.Especially by individuals who have no interest in buying the car in the first place.
They should simply be allowed to post with contact info with (no additional comments made to their posts).Correspondence should be done privately between seller and potential purchaser.
I also track a 911 SC and some of the guys from the club have recently inquired about my Pantera and one has an interest in buying one. After reading this post and listening to the guys opinions of who I just sent over here, I wouldn't dare send anyone else....
Flame away...
Respectfully, Dan
Some of you might remember me as I posted my 71 Pantera project car for a asking price of $22,000.I had something like 40 replies all asking for pictures. The truth being only 3 of 40 were willing to pay me the price. Unfortunately they were all over seas. The logistics of of reassembling the car and transporting the car to the docks for transport weren't realistic for me.I too received alot of slack about my asking price from certain people on this forum.Even to the point of harassment and I do mean harassment.Why?, so they could knock the sale of my car down to the point of a steal for themselves. In my mind my price wasn't a steal but a fair one.I had over $7000 in brand new parts alone. Not to mention hundreds of hours in stripping, treating and painting the entire undercarriage of the car.Some of you know what hours alone it takes in stripping the tar from your engine compartment never mind an entire car.I didn't include that in my asking price.Not all Panteras are rust buckets, mine wasn't. Truth, it was stripped down to bare metal for all to see. I know a few guys who have bought these so called $35,000 cars only to find out later they needed all new rocker panels and serious rear inner wheel housing reconstruction. Cha ching$$.There are owners who spend $3 for a slave rebuilding kit to rebuild a pitted slave cylinder and then there are guys who spend $100 for a stainless sleeved unit.There are many $35,000 cars for sale with the same old 30 year old brake fluid and rubber lines!Other guys spend $1600 for a whole updated system that actually stops the car.Truth, there are guys who spend money on their cars and there are ones who don't.The ones who do deserve top price.
Its true this is a sand box but you guys really have to see it from the outside the box.What happened in this post was an embarassment.Its an open forum that anyone should join and feel comfortable(edit)about posting cars or parts. If someone wants to post their car for sale they shouldn't be beat down or mobbed for their asking price.Especially by individuals who have no interest in buying the car in the first place.
They should simply be allowed to post with contact info with (no additional comments made to their posts).Correspondence should be done privately between seller and potential purchaser.
I also track a 911 SC and some of the guys from the club have recently inquired about my Pantera and one has an interest in buying one. After reading this post and listening to the guys opinions of who I just sent over here, I wouldn't dare send anyone else....
Flame away...
Respectfully, Dan
Dan, you are absolutely correct. And, that is the rational and intent behind my current activity on the Pantera I will be offering for sale. I do not want anyone to have to experience surprises, at least any that I am aware could have been prevented. However, all need to recognize the cars are old, and despite all best intentions, age is a factor. Good posting.
ZZ
ZZ
quote:There has been alot of interest lately in these cars from people who were interested in early model camaros and chevelles who can no longer afford to purchase them because they have have out priced themselves.
I have seen a couple Camero RS's go for under $20K in restored condition. I looked at one for sale real hard at a car show recently. Camero's non matching numbers that are drivers and not show cars are 10-15K.
To bring a Pantera up to $40-60K condition requires a lot of money and work; a lot more then $7k in parts. It is pretty comon for a guy with a $50-60k pantera to have close to $100k in it. He asked people's opinion and they gave it to him. It is hard to plop down $20-30K for a project car not really knowing if all the parts are there or what it needs. I bought my Pantera which is a good driver with a GT5 Hall body conversion (very well done) and conley leather interior for under $30k. I bought a PB Pantera project care COMPLETE for half of that!
The price has been going up as well as the quality of the cars. A $50-60K car will usually have new radiators, new engine in the 450+hp range, new rims, new tires, rigidity kits, $15K+ in paint and body work, new custom interiors, and on and on and on.
People have their opinions. I have to agree with most of what was said about the project car. A Camero in that condition wiould be less than a $10K car (unless a specific type comparable to an authentic GT5 Pantera). I think that comparison does not hold water.
I am not flaming, its just opinion!
Gary
Gary, I'm not talking about the run of the mill camaro or chevelles. I'm talking about the 69-70 454/425hp 396/375 and 302 Z/28's cars.
Try and place yourself not as a owner of a Pantera but someone on the outside thinking about coming into the ring as a future owner. Then read this post slowly and carefully.Tell me how this guy was treated by fellow Pantera owners?
Dan
Try and place yourself not as a owner of a Pantera but someone on the outside thinking about coming into the ring as a future owner. Then read this post slowly and carefully.Tell me how this guy was treated by fellow Pantera owners?
Dan
Yep, if and when I sell my car none of you guys will ever know about it. I will give it to Dave to sell and he will deal with your crap, not me.
In fact I will ask him to see if he can sell it to someone in Europe. That is where my car belongs.
In fact I will ask him to see if he can sell it to someone in Europe. That is where my car belongs.
If you are comparing rare high end Cameros' then is this a factory GT4/5 Pantera?
As far as how he was treated, I saw where most dissagreed with his value of the car but that's just people's opinion and this is a real world. I just seemed like he took offence at others opinion.
Gary
As far as how he was treated, I saw where most dissagreed with his value of the car but that's just people's opinion and this is a real world. I just seemed like he took offence at others opinion.
Gary
Yeah but Gary you didn't see the emials he got. That is what gets you. What we say was what was on the board. I bet he got a lot of nasty grams. Tell you what, just to show you what this guy went through, make an add here on the board that you are gonna sell a Pantera or something, like an engine maybe. Then wait until you start getting the emails. After about the tenth email I promise you will see what I am talking about. Now I have had one guy who was real polite and he was real nice and all. But he was the exception rather than the rule.
I will step up to the plate .. I was looking to buy both your cars.
Danno .. you had a good deal but 20k for a complete disassembled car ? Look at my persepctive. I was thinking were the parts all there ? The only thing done was cleaning under neath and suspension and brakes. Motor, interior, A/C etc. There is a lot to do on a disassembled car. There were too many variables involved in inventorying the parts.
Zoom Zoom ... is the car ready yet ? 30k The motor was siezed with nitrous, interior have animials living in it and a variety of other work was going on. I was anxiuos to buy another car .. so I pushed you. My thought was sell it now in the condition it was in to me and I will do the work.
Ok so here is my point look at the picture.... this is the guage for 31k. 79 GTS EURO 99% original 24 k miles except for minor upgrades.
For the record I pushed you guys a little because I had cash looking to buy a car for a fair price ... I found what I thought was fair. If your not looking to really sell the car ? Why post it. Do you think I had problems selling my 69 Shelby, 68 427 Corvette, 66 LW 427 Comet, on those sites ?? Of coarse I took some slack .. but eventually I sold them for a fair price. Go to Europe... people in USA get offended by negociating .. in Europe you negociate for everything.
Sorry if you were offended. But you psted a car for sale and its still not for sale months later ??
Danno .. you had a good deal but 20k for a complete disassembled car ? Look at my persepctive. I was thinking were the parts all there ? The only thing done was cleaning under neath and suspension and brakes. Motor, interior, A/C etc. There is a lot to do on a disassembled car. There were too many variables involved in inventorying the parts.
Zoom Zoom ... is the car ready yet ? 30k The motor was siezed with nitrous, interior have animials living in it and a variety of other work was going on. I was anxiuos to buy another car .. so I pushed you. My thought was sell it now in the condition it was in to me and I will do the work.
Ok so here is my point look at the picture.... this is the guage for 31k. 79 GTS EURO 99% original 24 k miles except for minor upgrades.
For the record I pushed you guys a little because I had cash looking to buy a car for a fair price ... I found what I thought was fair. If your not looking to really sell the car ? Why post it. Do you think I had problems selling my 69 Shelby, 68 427 Corvette, 66 LW 427 Comet, on those sites ?? Of coarse I took some slack .. but eventually I sold them for a fair price. Go to Europe... people in USA get offended by negociating .. in Europe you negociate for everything.
Sorry if you were offended. But you psted a car for sale and its still not for sale months later ??
White never looked so good!
Gary
Gary
LOL Thanks bro !
It fits me perfect .... my nickname at work ... the WHITE TORNADO.
It fits me perfect .... my nickname at work ... the WHITE TORNADO.
Most prefere to buy a complete project car completely assembled over one dissasembled. Not only is there a question of parts but how it all goes together as well.
In restoring the other car I am working on, I had a friend help me pull it apart. I really didn't want the help but I apreciated his company. We did a good job of bagging and tagging everything. I took several photos along the way. Good thing I did. Durring reasembly I questioned how many many things went back together that I did not dissasemble; even though it's all layed out bagged and tagged in a nice order.
You can take a complete car, dissasemble it and drop it's value 20-50%.
Gary
In restoring the other car I am working on, I had a friend help me pull it apart. I really didn't want the help but I apreciated his company. We did a good job of bagging and tagging everything. I took several photos along the way. Good thing I did. Durring reasembly I questioned how many many things went back together that I did not dissasemble; even though it's all layed out bagged and tagged in a nice order.
You can take a complete car, dissasemble it and drop it's value 20-50%.
Gary
quote:Originally posted by accobra:
LOL Thanks bro !
It fits me perfect .... my nickname at work ... the WHITE TORNADO.
I can't wait until you go to sell something on here Ron. I am gonna give you so much grief it will make your head spin. This is gonna be fun. :P
quote:I can't wait until you go to sell something on here Ron. I am gonna give you so much grief it will make your head spin. This is gonna be fun. :P
Detom .. I already did try to sell bumpers. Both guys emailed me and said they wanted them . then that was it. Never to be seen or heard from. You dont hear me whining. Oh and I was not the person hwo offered them 10 or 15k matter of fact I never made them an offer .. I back off when I heard the price.
Love Ron
Ron, no my Pantera is not quite ready, nor will it be offered for sale until it is ready. I appreciate your position, and the picture of your Pantera looks great. Best, ZZ
PS - (edit) Just for the record, I never posted my Pantera for sale. Someone else posted some info about it, which ultimately led to further comment. Sorry if that string of comments created difficulty for anyone.
ZZ
PS - (edit) Just for the record, I never posted my Pantera for sale. Someone else posted some info about it, which ultimately led to further comment. Sorry if that string of comments created difficulty for anyone.
ZZ
quote:Detom .. I already did try to sell bumpers. Both guys emailed me and said they wanted them . then that was it. Never to be seen or heard from. You dont hear me whining. Oh and I was not the person hwo offered them 10 or 15k matter of fact I never made them an offer .. I back off when I heard the price.
I know Ron but I am gonna tease you anyway. Why?? because you are like a kid brother and I can.
quote:Originally posted by comp2:
Most prefer to buy a project car completely assembled over one dissasembled. Not only is there a question of parts but how it all goes together as well.
You can take a complete car, dissasemble it and drop it's value 20-50%.Gary
Having disassembled every nut, bolt, tube, electrical connection, harness, bushing, etc and then reassembling them as part 6559's resto, I totally agree with Gary.
It was easy taking it apart; putting it together again is a whole other story. Even with good organization, the proper tools, pictures and notes, an experienced Pantera mechanic on call, and SOBill's excellent wiring diagrams, it was very time consuming.
I was thankful I only had a few extra, unaccounted for parts when it was all over. I can't imagine trying to do it without having the experience of taking it apart first.
Don't get me wrong here, it was very rewarding, too!
Jeff
6559
Gary / Jeff
I see your point totally .. having restored a couple cars in my time ... its always best to have taken it apart .. any even if the normal chain of events dont take place ... where you get side tracked in life and you return to the project with a time lapse involved ... where memory is ata loss and you forget how everything wnet back ... even if that dosent happen ... its still hard to remember which parts went where and if in fact all the parts are still there. That was my only point of purchasing a disassembled car.
Ron
I see your point totally .. having restored a couple cars in my time ... its always best to have taken it apart .. any even if the normal chain of events dont take place ... where you get side tracked in life and you return to the project with a time lapse involved ... where memory is ata loss and you forget how everything wnet back ... even if that dosent happen ... its still hard to remember which parts went where and if in fact all the parts are still there. That was my only point of purchasing a disassembled car.
Ron
Plus you loose stuff. You go to put an assembly in and can't find the doo-hickey anywhere. You have looked everywhere twice. You finaly have to order one and wait for it to get in before you can go any further. You get it and it is the wrong size, phone calls send it back get the right one. Then two year after you are done you find the old dohickey. DOHHH!! now how in the hell did it get put in this coffee can???
I have not read all the posts on this topic but I think I have a general understanding of the theme. However I think that people are way to uptight. Sellers and Buyers take some crap at times. As a person that is looking for a car I am looking for one of two things:
1)A great deal. Or 2)just the right car
Which ever comes first. Now, I have at times asked for more information or pictures of the cars being posted on the site. Most are happy to give more info. But I have been called a tire kicker... Yes I guess I am and thank you for noticing... I was not offended as some might be. Actually I feel quite the opposite I plan on kicking as many tires as is necessary to find just the right car. I guess what I am trying to say is everyone needs to let it go and have fun. After al that is what life is all about isn’t it?
Greg
1)A great deal. Or 2)just the right car
Which ever comes first. Now, I have at times asked for more information or pictures of the cars being posted on the site. Most are happy to give more info. But I have been called a tire kicker... Yes I guess I am and thank you for noticing... I was not offended as some might be. Actually I feel quite the opposite I plan on kicking as many tires as is necessary to find just the right car. I guess what I am trying to say is everyone needs to let it go and have fun. After al that is what life is all about isn’t it?
Greg
Greg if you have the money or the financial means to buy the car your looking for. I would not call you a tire kicker, and if you don't you are a tire kicker.
For the sellers I say your car is only worth what someone will pay for it. So unless you sell it you never really know what it's worth.
For the sellers I say your car is only worth what someone will pay for it. So unless you sell it you never really know what it's worth.
Actually I would hope that every buyer or potential buyer starts out as a tire kicker other wise I would call them foolish (no insult intended) I have expendable income however I will only use it to purchase the right car for me. And I may be wrong but the only way to me to find that car is to kick a few or maybe a lot of tires. I certainly don't find the term offensive.