why not include a pressure cap on the fill/swirl tank?
We can do that. You said "include" so ... two pressure caps?
The reason I asked is, the overflow tank (the long one) does not normally have a pressure cap. Being open to the atmosphere in order to work as designed, it only gets a similar looking non-sealing cover to prevent splashing overflow coolant. The short swirl tank has the only pressure cap. Unless the car has a non-stock cooling system routing, or possibly the short tank is mounted low and that AN fitting connects to a hose going to a remote rad-cap somewhere convenient.
Which is how my homebuilt system works. I fabricated a duplicate outside-fill cap under a hinged cover in the right gill, for access to a remotely mounted radiator cap connected to a low mount swirl tank. Our car is an L model w/stock outside left-side fueling, so no need to open the deck lid for either refueling OR filling the radiator. Been rigged this way since the '90s and is very convenient. FWIW, my stock water temp sensor is mounted in the block for more accuracy, like millions of front-engine Fords.
Thanks Boss...
Well, I stopped by my buddies shop and it looks like he is willing to do a run of ten sets. We are discussing revisions so if you have any ideas post them up.... We value all opinions in order to get it right.
He is also intrigued by the fuel tanks, he wants to see my spare tank.
Stay tuned....
Boss - on your right hand fill cover did you just biscuit cut the fill hole through the bat wing cover on an angle and then just use a standard hinge for the mounting of it ? Or is there such a beast as a hinged RHS access cover for the Pantera ? Just interested?
I didn't think of hinging the whole gill, Percy- that would have been simpler! The first one of those I saw was on Guy Trigaux GT-4 racer #2860 and it looked slick! I didn't want to cut my stock die-cast right gill, so decades ago I took some molding silicone and made a mold of the stock right gill, then cast a duplicate from fiberglas mat & epoxy. (Nowadays, you could print a gill.) Then I cut a 3-1/2" hole in the plastic gill and copied the stock left side fuel gill's hinge design in half-hard aluminum. I made a large 1 gallon aluminum swirl tank & bolted it down on the end of the right rocker panel. I ran a welded pipe with a rad-cap from the new swirl tank up to the proper area. All this was for service convenience with a stock look, and its worked well for us over the years. Few even notice the hinged cap.
Later, I modified a scrap Aviaid 10-qt oil pan for a mid-pan dipstick that reaches up between #3 & 4 header tubes and terminates in that same area under the gill opening. So I can check oil AND water level without opening the decklid, and along with modern small dia. deck struts, it clears the whole engine corner for much better #3 & 4 spark plug access. A 351-W dipstick & guide tube from a van is extremely long and can be cut down to fit almost anything. That allowed me to remove the stock top routing of the Pantera dipstick & clean up that area, too. Incidentally, all this is a copy of the positioning that Porsche uses on the mid-engined Boxter for their remote radiator cap and oil dipstick.
One of these days I'll install the modified pan and write an illustrated article for the POCA Newsletter....
The so-called second swirl tank is simply an overflow- a catch tank by another name. I use a small plastic tank tucked up as far away from the header heat as possible and a 12 oz beer car as an aux overflow for track days. Non need to be elaborate for an overflow bucket.
PLT-1, that sounds like a fair price if he's using sheet stainless (321 or better) for the gas tanks. Note that there are TWO different Pantera fuel tank designs that do NOT interchange in any way. The first is for pushbuttons and very early '71s. In those cars the upper subframe is totally different from all other Panteras and their tanks which snuggle close to that upper frame rail only fit early '71s (less than 300 cars). The second design is what's shown on your post and I believe fit all production Panteras including GT5 & GT-5s.
I have dropped off my fuel tank for an eval at the fab shop. He did not look that impressed by the tank and seemed to be confident he can make a nicer piece that would pass DOT certification. I will report back as things develop.
If anyone has a specific requirement for a tank we would like to add provisions for all situations so the tanks can be an option for anyone.
For instance,
a FI car with return line pick up
a better more common sending unit, we can move the baffles a little as not to interfere with the sender, etc...
Lay it on me... what does this community need, what does this community want for a tank?
If the choice was mine, I would spec aftermarket gas tanks as follows-
1- no heavier than stock- which are pretty light for steel
2- corrosion resistant- thin ss or aluminum
3- sender as-stock, with a separate bung for EFI/carb return line
And if it were just for me, the best Pantera fuel system I ever saw was on a Euro Gr-3 street racer as sold in Europe '71-about '79. It had two 10 or 11 gallon tanks, one on each side with a 2-1/2" OD connecting line & vent running in front of the crank pulley above the radiator hoses. There's far too much weight on the left side of our U.S cars so this better balances the machine. Stock, 22 gallons of fuel weighs 150 lbs! VERY difficult to cross-balance such a car with driver AND full tank! Two small tanks can be simpler to build than one big one, as well.
The headers on the left side are constrained by the tall stock fuel tank, requiring a heat shield. Dual tanks do not need shields. The Italian fuel sensor is fine as is and the stock size access hole allows adding a stock Ford TBI fuel pump to the end of the sender ass'y. Inside mounted electric pumps run cooler and much quieter. All modern EFI cars since the 80's have inside the tank pumps. TBI runs at 12 psi so it can be regulated down to 6-7 psi for carbs, unlike EFI that runs at 48-55 psi & cannot be regulated down without overheating the pump. My two cents-
If I were to specify a custom STREET fuel tank it would be SS, light gauge (as Bosswrench said-as light as an original and corrosion resistant alloy) and have rolled stiffening ribs. Passivation may enhance the product (best to ask a metallurgist about that). I would include standard bungs and fittings and accommodate the stock sending unit. Since these are hand made I would have optional EFI provisions available including an in-tank fuel pump.
I'm with BW on the dual tanks. I have drawn up a two tank system for my build since the car has other mods. Don't know if I will live long enough to make it so.
If you build a quality SS twin tank setup, I'm in.
@bosswrench posted:It had two 10 or 11 gallon tanks, one on each side with a 2-1/2" OD connecting line & vent running in front of the crank pulley above the radiator hoses.
Why on Earth would such a HUGE connecting line be necessary?
Inquiring minds want to know... ;-)
@plt-1 posted:For instance,
a FI car with return line pick up
a better more common sending unit, we can move the baffles a little as not to interfere with the sender, etc...
Lay it on me... what does this community need, what does this community want for a tank?
YES - to the F.I. return port.
YES - to the aftermarket (custom for our application) sending unit.
YES - to stainless steel.
In my very preliminary design I have twin 10 gal tanks with a -16 line between them at the bottom and a -8 at the top for venting. The only possible issue I see with the -16 is a slower fill rate which should be OK for a street car.
I did see a car with a flat tank up front, but I have never seen a car with the two tank option. Of course it makes perfect sense.
Thank you gentlemen, post it if you think of it.... P-
So, just to clarify...
1. We are not moving the ignition components we are just nestling in the two smaller tanks and cross over tube.
2. This two tank system has low mounted cross over tube, pulls fuel level from one side.
3. a FI return line could be routed to the pass side.
4. a single roll over vent is all that is required.
5. The cross over tube shall be flexible fuel line so the system can be engine in serviced.
Are these all yes's ?
What else??....