quote:Until our governments stop trying to screw us, we're screwed.
I'm holding my breath. :-)
R.
I'm holding my breath. :-)
R.
I'm holding my breath. :-)
R.
LOL .... Doug as you may or may not know my avitar is the sign of the UA .. United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters of the USA and Canada. Yes its a Union Labor Organization ... you may say UHHHHH lazy, over paid ..bla bla bla ... My family have been Plumbers or Pipefitters for four Generations. I have seen the Politicians sell us out time and time again in one the the greatest cities on earth ..New York .. what do you think the Trade Center was ? Bush knew we were going to get attacked .. I was working across the street in 91 when they tried the first time .. if thats not a sell out I dont know what is ?
Funny our Company name bears the name " Joseph " The Plumber ... I was contacted by channel 7 news and quoted as saying " No matter who wins, if they dont fix what the white collar worker created ... the are going to have a half million Joe The Plumbers banging on Washingtons door for a job".
Its very simple .. the blue collar labor has to take back Washington .. I made my adjustment about 6 years ago ..I cut my company from 80 men to 25 .. I dont take jobs where the margins are marginally profitable .. I dont let young hot shot number crunchers talk me out of profits for extra work ... otherwise I walk away. I dont take work to keep the machine oiled .. this is the way white collar workers bring down Labor.
I own my company and I am labor.
The key is we need to run our businesses more efficient, with focus on time and waste. As we did with drugs and drinking and driving we need to teach our Children values and ethics of work and eventually it will filter up ... the problem is OUR COLLEGES are teaching our young against Unions ... which is out greatest representation of Organized Labor.
Ron
Funny our Company name bears the name " Joseph " The Plumber ... I was contacted by channel 7 news and quoted as saying " No matter who wins, if they dont fix what the white collar worker created ... the are going to have a half million Joe The Plumbers banging on Washingtons door for a job".
Its very simple .. the blue collar labor has to take back Washington .. I made my adjustment about 6 years ago ..I cut my company from 80 men to 25 .. I dont take jobs where the margins are marginally profitable .. I dont let young hot shot number crunchers talk me out of profits for extra work ... otherwise I walk away. I dont take work to keep the machine oiled .. this is the way white collar workers bring down Labor.
I own my company and I am labor.
The key is we need to run our businesses more efficient, with focus on time and waste. As we did with drugs and drinking and driving we need to teach our Children values and ethics of work and eventually it will filter up ... the problem is OUR COLLEGES are teaching our young against Unions ... which is out greatest representation of Organized Labor.
Ron
deniscCaretaker of 8MA1244 '70 Euro Mangusta DRIVE THEM, THEY WERE MEANT TO BE DRIVEN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONE, BUY A POSTER!
Ron, I have lots of repect for individual workers, but it blows me away when a union worker says he works for such and such a union and the company is just out to get them. Union leaders are another form of politicians. I used to work for one of the Big3 (I'll let you guess which one, 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count) I have seen the company close a parts distribution center and no one saw it comming, I can tell you the white collar supervisors noticed the newly negociated agreement did not have the '2 year notice before we close down a plant'. They gave everyone the oportunity to move to a new location (where rent is double) and they gave those close to retirement 2 years salary to pull ahead retirement. If you go back to the 20's unions were necesary, Sweat shops and people like ol' Henry and his $5 a day abused workers. I think we still need to thank union leader for improving our salaries and work conditions. I dont know about the USA but in Canada I think the abuses are all now covered by provincial or federal laws. Unfortunately now they have stated new tactics, less than 30 hours per week or contract jobs so one is never a full fledge employee. Union or no union companies have big lawyers and at the end of the day enjoy your job because all you are doing is trading time for money.Sorry to be crude but thats the truth.
Denis ... agreed but a couple things to keep in mind about Unions
1. Unions are easy targets for critisizm.
2. The wages of all labor and productivity is guaged by the unions.
3. like everything else the majority are good hard working people, the few give the rest a bad name .. just like non union workers are not all bad or do bad work ..another myth.
4. In todays economy the Bosses are in the driver seat because there is a lack of work and a lot of men sitting on the bench .. this gives a boss the upper hand .. just like when its busy the worker has the upper hand. Its a cycle of human nature.
5. A lot of the Union rules really make sence. Example: 1 Foreman for 15 men ? its lot of work for 1 foreman to supervise 15 men. Coffe time, lunch time etc are all dept of labor laws.
I agree some union rules dotn make sence ... In our negociation this year we handed back and out dated contract and told the Union to rewrite it ... it has materials and laws that dont apply to todays work place. Example they still had piping for the old soap dispnsors ??? We need some rules for PEX, Tracpipe and PVC ? Another example: Plumbers dont bring hand tools ...why not the lose and steel 50k per year in my company alone.
Ron
1. Unions are easy targets for critisizm.
2. The wages of all labor and productivity is guaged by the unions.
3. like everything else the majority are good hard working people, the few give the rest a bad name .. just like non union workers are not all bad or do bad work ..another myth.
4. In todays economy the Bosses are in the driver seat because there is a lack of work and a lot of men sitting on the bench .. this gives a boss the upper hand .. just like when its busy the worker has the upper hand. Its a cycle of human nature.
5. A lot of the Union rules really make sence. Example: 1 Foreman for 15 men ? its lot of work for 1 foreman to supervise 15 men. Coffe time, lunch time etc are all dept of labor laws.
I agree some union rules dotn make sence ... In our negociation this year we handed back and out dated contract and told the Union to rewrite it ... it has materials and laws that dont apply to todays work place. Example they still had piping for the old soap dispnsors ??? We need some rules for PEX, Tracpipe and PVC ? Another example: Plumbers dont bring hand tools ...why not the lose and steel 50k per year in my company alone.
Ron
quote:Coffe time, lunch time etc are all dept of labor laws
I tried to locate those laws last year. I looked in the Federal rules websites and could not find them for Michigan either. I know the federal laws used to state a lunch or break no later then 5 hours into the shift.
In Michigan all I could find related to this was for minors. Forgot the limits, but NOTHING for adults.
Jeff
The Feds are leaving this to the states to set the guidelines...and that my friends is why we have Unions ... Lunch time is required in NYS Dept of Labor for every 6 hours worked and Break Time you are correct is not required ... but try tomorrow working the day with nothing but lunch ... there is a a Human Factor here and if you want to encourage production and ethics and morals ..then buy the employees coffee, juice, soda and set up a break room so they dont have to leave the factory or jobsite ..then they will produce for you and you will not need Unions if all bosses had a heart your talking about your father, mother, sister, brother , wife and children .. you want to see your child go tomorrow with out his or her bottle all day with nothing?
Ron
Ron
Ron
Ron
Lightening the mood 
Actually, this has been a great discussion thread, I've worked in union, non-union and even government jobs over the years, I've seen people who put their back into everything they do, and I've also seen slackers in all of these places - it all seems to come down to the nature of the individual. If union folks get a bad rap, it is probably because they are so visible in society, plumbers, electricians, teachers, road crews, fire fighters, bus drivers, police officers (that last one might touch a nerve with Pantera drivers) and if you look hard enough, you're sure to spot someone leaning on a shovel at the side of the road, or maybe spending too much time at the donut shop - but everyone benefits from the skills and dedication of the other 99 out of 100.
Actually, this has been a great discussion thread, I've worked in union, non-union and even government jobs over the years, I've seen people who put their back into everything they do, and I've also seen slackers in all of these places - it all seems to come down to the nature of the individual. If union folks get a bad rap, it is probably because they are so visible in society, plumbers, electricians, teachers, road crews, fire fighters, bus drivers, police officers (that last one might touch a nerve with Pantera drivers) and if you look hard enough, you're sure to spot someone leaning on a shovel at the side of the road, or maybe spending too much time at the donut shop - but everyone benefits from the skills and dedication of the other 99 out of 100.
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I guess I am totally out of touch, have no knowledge of how unions work today or am just plain stupid.
For the past 30 years I have been running businesses where my employees are treated like my family and friends. And more often than not they are or end up as my friends – in some cases, my family too.
They come and go as they please. They are free to take care of their kids, parents and themselves. They never punched a clock nor did I ever see one. I have managed to build quality teams of motivated workers who care about their product. Period. So I leave it to them to find the best way to get done what I need done.
The rest of it is a total free for all – what time they arrive or leave, or even if they come in at all. They pick a schedule that works for them and it lasts until it really interferes with someone else's.
I give them what they need to work in the office, or from home or from anywhere else on the road. Our offices are nice and pleasant, with food and drink and comforts for all to enjoy. I often find kids and dogs all over the place whenever I drop in.
No one kisses my a$$ or bows down to me. Quite the opposite. It’s a bit frustrating at times but it is the way of the world. It’s called democracy.
I only care about what they produce. If it’s done well and on time then the rest of the deal is unimportant. They do what they want for lunch, or breaks and have time off for everything they need, plus lots of holidays that they are free to schedule. And although I think they have it made, I am sure they think they are worth more than I pay them. But hey, I feel the same way.
Unions certainly have a place wherever unscrupulous employers treat folks badly. Other than that, I wonder.
Unless a worker is illegal, infirm, unable to speak the language or desperate for employment, most legal citizens of the developed world have the upper hand. Most modern governments provide enough assistance to keep them off the streets even if they never work a day in their life. Which is another story.
Our problem is that managers of big governments and big corporations waste huge amounts of other peoples’ money, have no long term goals or vision beyond a few years and no regard for their employees, the environment or the impact of their products and policies.
Our system is the best in the world. But badly flawed. I would have thought with all the history, knowledge, talent and intelligence there would be several viable alternatives. I know they exist, but every time a new idea surfaces it is attacked and quickly destroyed. Why is that?
For the past 30 years I have been running businesses where my employees are treated like my family and friends. And more often than not they are or end up as my friends – in some cases, my family too.
They come and go as they please. They are free to take care of their kids, parents and themselves. They never punched a clock nor did I ever see one. I have managed to build quality teams of motivated workers who care about their product. Period. So I leave it to them to find the best way to get done what I need done.
The rest of it is a total free for all – what time they arrive or leave, or even if they come in at all. They pick a schedule that works for them and it lasts until it really interferes with someone else's.
I give them what they need to work in the office, or from home or from anywhere else on the road. Our offices are nice and pleasant, with food and drink and comforts for all to enjoy. I often find kids and dogs all over the place whenever I drop in.
No one kisses my a$$ or bows down to me. Quite the opposite. It’s a bit frustrating at times but it is the way of the world. It’s called democracy.
I only care about what they produce. If it’s done well and on time then the rest of the deal is unimportant. They do what they want for lunch, or breaks and have time off for everything they need, plus lots of holidays that they are free to schedule. And although I think they have it made, I am sure they think they are worth more than I pay them. But hey, I feel the same way.
Unions certainly have a place wherever unscrupulous employers treat folks badly. Other than that, I wonder.
Unless a worker is illegal, infirm, unable to speak the language or desperate for employment, most legal citizens of the developed world have the upper hand. Most modern governments provide enough assistance to keep them off the streets even if they never work a day in their life. Which is another story.
Our problem is that managers of big governments and big corporations waste huge amounts of other peoples’ money, have no long term goals or vision beyond a few years and no regard for their employees, the environment or the impact of their products and policies.
Our system is the best in the world. But badly flawed. I would have thought with all the history, knowledge, talent and intelligence there would be several viable alternatives. I know they exist, but every time a new idea surfaces it is attacked and quickly destroyed. Why is that?
Our system is the best in the world. But badly flawed. I would have thought with all the history, knowledge, talent and intelligence there would be several viable alternatives. I know they exist, but every time a new idea surfaces it is attacked and quickly destroyed. Why is that?[/QUOTE]
Its because the system employs people. People who have flaws such as egos, greed, etc.
Its because the system employs people. People who have flaws such as egos, greed, etc.
As a mere tot, I was told many things but two as of this moment come to mind. 1)kindness is considered by many as as sign of weakness 2)if men were angels governments wouldn't be needed.
Give me some more time. I can remember a whole donkey cart full.
Give me some more time. I can remember a whole donkey cart full.