blinkers and taillights,,,same circuit/fuse?

here is a site that you will need to make a priority book mark! the link is to his wiring page
http://www.panteraplace.com/page107.htm

Thanks for the link, that helps tremendously!

I have EFI, with the 8 sexy velocity stacks, powered by Haltech EMS.

When troubleshooting, I'll need to be turning the key on and off, which cycles the fuel pump, (priming it for startup).

Is it bad to cycle that pump onand off a few times without starting the car?

I know some older injection systems wouold throw a shot of fuel in while the pump was priming for easy startup. I don't want to wash the rings down with fuel while troubleshooting the taillight wiring.

Have a look and see if you have a fuse or relay that controls the EFI / fuel pump. It is very unlikely because of the power requirements, it will be fed directly from the ignition switch.
If you are having problems with the marker, tail and license plate bulbs not working, these should work without the ignition switch being on.
If it is turn signals you are having problems with, try depressing the emergency hazard warning switch, does that work and all turn signals work? That should also work without the ignition switch not being on. The hazard switch itself does sometimes fail, hopefully it is just a fuse, this is a quick test to get you in the right direction.. Pun intended..

If you have the front parking lights and front markers, but don't have the tail lights, rear markers, and license plate lights, then the problem is the nylon wiring connector that is located by the coolant tanks.

The front parking lights, tail lights, side markers, license plate lights, and the indicator light in the tach (lower right) are split between fuses #3 & #4.

F3:
RF parking and marker
LR tail and marker
R license plate light
Dash lights
Back up light switch

F4:
LF parking and marker
RR tail and marker
L license plate light
Lights indicator in tach (lower right)


The turn signals are fed from fuse #12. There is a possibility that there may be a bad connection inside the hazard warning switch.

When you first turn on the turn signals, does the directional indicator in the tach (bottom center) light once or twice and then stop? If so, then there is a problem with your turn signal flasher.

The key needs to be on (second click) for the turn signals to work, but the key does not have to be on for the parking lights to work.

The above assumes that the wiring is original and unmolested.

Let us know what you find.

John

Thanks very much for the tips.

The electrical system has been improved, relays in place of all the high-draw items that used to go through the ignition.

I know my way around a DMM pretty well, I'll do some poking around today and see where voltage starts and voltage stops, and also check the fuses.

When I asked Roger about the passenger window not operating, he said to give all the fuses a spin, as they tended to corrode over time. The window thing I believe was just me not pushing on the button correctly.

You should feast your eyes on some of these goodies.. http://www.pantera-electronics.com
They have a fuse panel that is straight swap for the original style of fuses which weaken over time and cause unwelcome surprises..

Mike, for detailed info on your 8-stack EFI, the setup used 4 TWM throttle bodies and a brainbox all sold by Dennis Quella's 'Pantera Performance' in Colorado. I'd go to him via telephone rather than the internet. The system is popular and arguably the best on the market even today, but Dennis is old-school and works better on the phone than at a keyboard.

Thanks,

The EFI and engine are running perfectly. Roger included the Haltech booklet, but said he had thrown away also all of his Pantera related stuff, so what cam with the car was a small bag with various bits and pieces, and a couple booklets.
When and if I have an EFI problem, Dennis Quella will be my first call!

That's OK, I'll start my own collection of Pantera related stuff!.

Today, I tackle the blinkers and taillight gremlin that's lurking around inside my car somewhere, I have my 1911 ready for when I find him lol.

This morning I'm going to a local speed shop, partly to show off the car, and also to hopefully find one good shop to deal with when it comes to needing stuff, instead of calling around or ordering online.

Then when I get home I'm busting out my DMM and my 1911 and I'm gonna fix those blinkers and taillights so I can go to tonights cruise.

I opened the kick panel that covers the fuse array. I found a lot of corrosion, and one blown fuse, which I'm hoping is the blinkers/taillights fuse.

I cleaned up the whole array of fuses, coated each with dialectric grease, and while I was there, I glued the kick panel back together. It was made of layers, leather on the inside, then metal, then carpet, and all were separated, so I took the time to glue it all back with my favorite glue "Amazing Goop" wich holds as well as epoxy but with the give of rubber, similar to "shoe Goo".
That is all taped now until the glue sets so it will all look like new when I pull the tape off. SO, not only did I hopefully fix my blinker/taillight issue, I got some refurb work in, repairing my kick panel to "like new" condition.

In an hour, when the glue sets, I'll pull the tape off, and close the kick panel and see if the blinkers and taillights work. I hope they do because I plan to attend the informal "cruise" that happens in town on Friday nights.

For those confused about Mike using the number "1911" in reference to his electrical gremblin, this link should help.

https://www.google.com/search?...RoILAAw&ved=0CCQQsAQ

...just DON'T pull an "Elvis"!!!...Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
For those confused about Mike using the number "1911" in reference to his electrical gremblin, this link should help.

https://www.google.com/search?...RoILAAw&ved=0CCQQsAQ

...just DON'T pull an "Elvis"!!!...Mark

kjeld

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
... Today, I tackle the blinkers and taillight gremlin that's lurking around inside my car somewhere, I have my 1911 ready for when I find him lol....

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
For those confused about Mike using the number "1911" in reference to his electrical gremblin, ...Mark

OMG!

that is the wrong tool.

I could understand using American Iron in the engine bay, but another classic Italian design should be used else where (Beretta 1951).

Fluke include to keep thread on topic

quote:

...just DON'T pull an "Elvis"!!!

I troubleshot the blinkers, and taillights. The whole fuse array was corroded, and I found one burnt out fuse.

I got everything working, except for one taillight. A little more probing with the DMM and I found an extra corroded fuse, so I now have everything working!

I went to head off to the local Friday night cruise scene, got half way down my street when I realized I only had one headlight working.

I spent the rest of the night and all morning trying to figure out how to get my passenger headlight to work, to no avail.

Roger had done a cool mod which replaced the big bugeye round headlights with these cool rectangle lights, so the lights only flip up a little bit, but I only have low beams (no big deal).

Next I'm going to try switching the wires to the high beam wires, and see if I can't get both headlights to work doing that.

Earlier today I also found a tiny pinhole leak in my Fluidine radiator.

It's so small I can probably continue to drive the car and just keep an eye on the resevoir levels.

I considered trying that "Stps Leaks" stuff, but I should be half-assing anything on my new girlfriend, so the radiator is probably coming out of the car in the next few days for a proper repair.

So far, I'm loving being a Pantera owner! Little things to work on, clean up, nothing major, everyone I've met so far has been as nice as can be. I'm loving it!

Mike.

It sounds like you are having the typical owner experience with a few things needing mild sorting to have everything just the way it should be. Enjoy!

Mark

OK, still can't figure out why the one headlight won't light up. Maybe I just got two bad bulbs, because I get voltage to the plug and ground, I'll figure it out soon enough.

After doing more troubleshooting on the headlight, and some cleaning and wiping, and admiring, I took Snow White for a drive and now the Tachometer is not working.

I had a Triumph TR4A once, it had Lucas wiring, it was similar to this. If it wasn't one thing, it was another, rarely did everything all work, there was Always something goin on, and then there was the brilliant Positive Ground??

I saw a couple Triumph guys burn up their electronics when trying to jump start their cars lol.

Did Lucas make the electronics for Detomaso?

Spent a little more time trying to get the headlight to work, but needed to drive the car so I put the light back in. Jorge the Gremlin is somewhere still running around.

Yesterday, the whole gauge panel just went "OFF" no amps, fuel, or oil pressure, all just went dead.
Then,the next time I started the car, the gauges worked for maybe 10 seconds, and then died again.

Looking at the diagram, it looked like fuse 12 controlled the gauges, I felt the fuse and it felt loose, so I popped it off and bent the tab so the fuse sat in there with more tension.

I didn't restart the car, but I Did switch the key to the "on" position, and the gauges came back to life!

Now, if they stay on for more than 10 seconds I'll be in business!

Jorge the gremlin's days are numbered.

quote:

Originally posted by bdud:
You should feast your eyes on some of these goodies.. http://www.pantera-electronics.com
They have a fuse panel that is straight swap for the original style of fuses which weaken over time and cause unwelcome surprises..

I would seriously consider this. Beautiful piece of craftmanship and it can cure all kinds of these annoying little electrical gremlins.

Doug M

When I put a generic steering column in my Pantera, I came up with a turn signal and light controller. The first design I did uses an encoder in the steering column to cancel the turn. After that I worked with a solid state inertia circuit and got a system which cancels the turn signal using the inertia of the turn. I could not believe how well it works.

I have since filed patents for both.

Basically, if you set a 64oz soda on the dash and make a turn, if you are concerned about the soda falling or sliding, it will cancel the turn.

I put the test platform in a truck and plugged it into the cigaret lighter and drove it around to show how well it works on normal turns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIkLtqMOnpo

The unit controls the turn signals and flashers. It has a unique mix to allow the turn signals and flashers to be used simultaneously. It works with standard bulbs or LED's.

There is also a reference wire for marker lights so you can use single bulb front turn/flash/marker lights. The front light in my car is a standard truck one wire LED marker light. It is the turn signal, flasher and marker light which is really cool:



I built the light bucket around a truck marker because they are easily replaceable. If you look around some make a good appearance in this sort of setting.

The signal is activated by a momentary switch which I placed on the dash:



More info here:

http://www.gasautosolutions.com/

The units may not be for cars where people do not want to make that much change to the wire harness or dash. It does allow for changing the steering column to some other options besides the passenger car column which came with the Pantera.

I put in a generic column then built the cover out of aluminum to fill in the dash detent:



Gary

That does look like a nice piece of hardware.

Presently though, since I spent more on the car than I had factored in, plus the fact that I have more time than money right now, I'll continue to try and get things working with what I have.

I'm disabled for a while. I just had open heart surgery a few months ago, so I have to be careful on my spending for a while.

I think if you are trouble shooting problems staying the course is definitely the best course.

OK, checking with my multimeter, at the plug (2-wire,ground and hot) I get 11 volts from one pin to ground, and I get .17 volts to the other pin to ground.

Ohms-wise, the ground wire gives me 2.94 kilaohms.

The hot wire to ground gives me 5.23 kilaohms.

This is pointing to a bad ground to me, the ground pin on the plug-to-ground should read zero, correct? It also should not read any voltage, and as it sits now it gives off .17 volts.

Roger had designed and built and installed a very cool relay panel, that relieved the ignition switch of all the high-draw items, so they all got switched by heavy duty relays that were more appropriate for the loads.

Trying to trace the wires from the bad headlight up to the relay, it does look like the hot wire gets voltage, but with the lights ON, the ground wire gives .17 volts (it should read zero volts correct?).

With the lights off, both plug pins-to-ground read zero ohms.

So my guess is bad ground, somewhere. If it's the relay, that's a sealed unit, and will require some serious undoing of stuff.

I'm wondering if I can't just cut the ground wire a couple inches back from the plug, and run a ground wire directly to the chassis.

This should give me my already-proven voltage to the hot pin, and a direct ground to the ground pin on the plug. Basically just cut the offending ground wire out of the loop.

What I don't know is if that it is safe to do with the old (now cut) ground wire showing some very low voltage (although that wire now would not be hooked up to anything, just taped over).

I'm going to try jumping the hot wire to one pin on the light, and another wire directly to the chassis to see if I can at least get he light to light up.

Mike I am not sure what 2 wire plug you are checking. Is this the plug that you get to from under the wing (fender) going to the headlamp? This should be a 3 wire plug, ground, low and high beam.

Yes, I know the plug should be a 3 pin plug. Roger has modified the headlights to run some small rectangle (Camaro low beam or back-up lights I think) Single element lights.

This was set up so the blinker switch was just always left on the "low beam" position, flipping to high beams simply turned the lights off.

Roger told me to "just use the high beam wire, and switch the blinker toggle to "high beams", done deal.

The problem is, as I'm on the phone with Roger, he's telling me to switch one of the wires on the 3 pin plug (high beam wire) and as he's telling me this, I'm holding a TWO PIN plug in my hands, and there is no 3rd high beam wire to use.

The light is also just a single element light, so just 2 wires I'm working with here.

Roger suggested I remove the front wheel, and then I'd be able to easily follow the loom all the way from end-to-end, so that's my next move.

quote:

Originally posted by bdud:
Mike I am not sure what 2 wire plug you are checking. Is this the plug that you get to from under the wing (fender) going to the headlamp? This should be a 3 wire plug, ground, low and high beam.

SUCCESS!!!!!!

It took me ALL day, troubleshooting the weird voltages and ohm readings I was getting from the passenger headlight.

The car had a modified lighting system, using old Camaro low beams or back-up lights, small and rectangle, single element-so no high beams.

That's fine and dandy, except the passenger headlight I just could not get to work. I was getting weird voltages and ohm readings, nothing I tried was working.

The headlight plugs were TWO pin plugs, no third "high beam light wire (that I gladly would have swapped over to to get both lights working, no 3 pin plugs, single element lights as well, so 2 wires, that's it.

The car has had a custom relay system designed and installed by Roger that relieves the ignition of all the high-draw duties, much better than the stock wiring setup.

Today though, I gave up, and I simply jumped my two headlight wires over to the non-working headlight, made it all tidy so you can't even tell anything was changed (I still have to black tape the open bad headlight wires so they aren't open to the elements, BUT,,,,,


I HAVE 2 HEADLIGHTS glowing brightly on my car!

Checklist;

Headlights-check

Taillights-check

Brakelights-check

Blinkers-check

Interior gauge illumination lamps all seem to light up, although the original gauges have konked out intermittently-still monitoring that situation. They've stopped working for a few minutes a couple times.

Second bank of new gauges all work perfectly, no issues there.

Tachometer has a mind of it's own. It's moody. sometimes it works, sometimes not.
I probably won't spend too much energy working on the tach.

Next week Snow White gets up on the lift, all her fluids changed, things are coming along nicely.

Great to hear Snow White has "seen the light".
Reading 0.17V / 2.94k ohms on the ground wire is not correct, should be 0V / 0 ohms, you can compare it with the other side. The relays should not be switching the ground, it is most likely a bad ground. You can never have too many grounds and on most Pantera's you have the main ground under the dash and one at the back for the rear lamps. Hopefully you have more grounds added with your relay kit. If you want to add a ground into the front area and not drill any holes etc, use the mounting studs for the engine radiator fan relays. Link a black wire into the main wiring loom inside the right front fender and join it up to any of the black wires you see in there.
As you have a single element headlamp, I would wire the low beam, high beam and headlamp flasher to illuminate the same single element. Not sure how strict the police are in your area or what your states inspections are, but it will at least bring a light on in all situations.

Roger was very thorough in wiring this car up, there's grounds everywhere.

Passenger headlight has to come off one last time though, because I forgot to tape of the ends of the wires I cut.

They're both out of the picture now, but I'd hate for one to wiggle around and touch the chassis and cause an issue.

The saga continues.