I had a terrible time with silicone fluid, my clutch hated the stuff. I switched back to conventional and no more issues. I drive my car at least three times a week, usually more.
quote:Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:quote:Alternating between the two makes bleeding your brakes a snap. You know you've finished flushing/bleeding the line when the fluid color runs consistent.
Garth shared this with me many years ago and it is a great tip.
For the frosting on the cake to make brake fluid changing much easier, by your self a Motive Products hand pump pressure bleeder tank. Even with the adapters you may need it's going to be less than $100.
One man brake, and clutch, bleeding in well under one half an hour from start to finish.
Larry
That Motive Products pump looks good, but I already have a Mightyvac pump which works good enough too, although the container seems smaller on the Mightyvac: https://www.lbusupport.com/asp...ges/MV6820action.htm
I went and bought some Valvoline dot 3/4, so I plan on using that. Will mix a little of that in a jar with the current fluid just to be sure if it mixes or not. If the two fluids don't mix in a jar, then I presume the current fluid has silicone base fluid in there. But since some say silicone is purple, I am pretty sure I have the non-silicone in all my cars anyway. With my Group 4, it looks like easy peasy, as I can access each of the bleed screws without removing the wheels, but it doesn't seem that lucky with the red 5S and black 5S. In the black 5S the rear wheels need to come off and the red 5S the front wheels need to come off. I presume I siphon off as much as I can with the wife's turkey baster, add some new fluid, and then bleed at each wheel to flush out each caliper one by one. Once I get the new fluid flowing by bleeding from one of the calipers, I presume I just go on to bleeding the other 3 wheels and keep adding some new fluid along the way as it draws it through. If I do it right, I would think no air would get in the system and the pedal would remain strong when all done. All the time protecting the paint real good for any mishaps, ha ha.
Damn, I wonder what I did wrong now on my Group 4. I bled at each of the brakes, all the while feeding new fluid into the reservoir. But now I hardly have any brakes at all. Brake pedal travels a lot and even when it reaches brake pressure about 1/2 way, the power is almost gone (I have to press it real hard to stop at all). Its almost like I have no boost. What the hey, maybe just try bleeding all again? I also noticed that at the end point when pressing the brake down I hear kind of a clunk noise and also feel it at the pedal. Retirement...this is what happens when I am retired and have time to work on things and "improve" things by myself, ha ha. Anyway, my unit is shown in the photo below. I wonder if at some point I had drained too much old fluid out to empty and then fed the new through. I thought I was careful at keeping some in the reservoir all the time when bleeding. Not sure if that would make a difference anyway. Any diagnosis help? I wanted to take my Group 4 to Huntington Beach to observe thong city in the 80 degree weather, but now am deprived...damn! 
Front Trunk by JanDaMan, on Flickr
Front Trunk by JanDaMan, on Flickr
I am still lost on what I did wrong. Today I put my vacuum pump on the brake bleeders and found two were not holding a vacuum completely. I torqued them down pretty good, almost afraid to do it more, but still not holding a vacuum. Could it be that I still have air in those two lines, and that this air in the lines passes easier through a bleeder screw than brake fluid would? Anyway, will try bleeding again tomorrow starting at the passenger side rear, then drivers rear, then passenger front and then drivers front. I believe that is the order.
In the dusty corners of my head, I thought the sequence of bleeding had something to do with the brake switch/biasing valve. as in if done in the wrong order an internal spool would shift and block fluid. (something about preventing complete fluid loss if a line broke). doing a quick read of the shop manual, I didn't see anything like that and I this quirk might have been for some other hydraulic system.
So my comments are probably completely in error and not worth the trouble to read
So my comments are probably completely in error and not worth the trouble to read
I didn't read the entire thread on what and what not, you did, but the first thing you need to do is bleed the master.
I don't know which one you have. Some have bleed valves, some don't.
If your's is a don't then you HAVE to disconnect the lines coming out of it and fabricate a tube that connects to the output and curves back into the reservoir.
These things are very sensitive to not having been bleed.
It only takes a couple of pumps of the pedal to get the air out of it though.
Very low pedal is a sign of this and the power bleeder will not do the master from one of the wheel locations.
I don't know which one you have. Some have bleed valves, some don't.
If your's is a don't then you HAVE to disconnect the lines coming out of it and fabricate a tube that connects to the output and curves back into the reservoir.
These things are very sensitive to not having been bleed.
It only takes a couple of pumps of the pedal to get the air out of it though.
Very low pedal is a sign of this and the power bleeder will not do the master from one of the wheel locations.
Hello
Since you're retired, you 've got time
Why don't you do the old school method (I always do)
Lift the back, bleed the rear brakes (starting with the longest pipe)
Lift the front and do the same ...
Just an idea
Philippe
Since you're retired, you 've got time
Why don't you do the old school method (I always do)
Lift the back, bleed the rear brakes (starting with the longest pipe)
Lift the front and do the same ...
Just an idea
Philippe
It might just be your MityVac is faulty and not able to hold a vacuum. I replaced the seals on mine and it is working good again.
Your bleed hoses also need to be tight on the brake bleeders. Do not loosen the the bleeders too much, you will suck air from around the brake bleeder threads. You can take the brake bleeders out and wrap ptfe tape round the threads to stop that happening during bleeding.
If you still cannot get a good pedal after all this with your Mityvac, then you will need to do the old 2 person brake bleed with someone locking the bleeder after every downstroke of the brake pedal.
Make sure the master brake level does not go down low.
The order of bleeding the brakes you have is correct.
Your bleed hoses also need to be tight on the brake bleeders. Do not loosen the the bleeders too much, you will suck air from around the brake bleeder threads. You can take the brake bleeders out and wrap ptfe tape round the threads to stop that happening during bleeding.
If you still cannot get a good pedal after all this with your Mityvac, then you will need to do the old 2 person brake bleed with someone locking the bleeder after every downstroke of the brake pedal.
Make sure the master brake level does not go down low.
The order of bleeding the brakes you have is correct.
Jan and others,
The problems of fitting a vacuum line to each caliper bleed screw and making sure your supply fluid is sufficient are the primary reasons Garth and I both so highly endorsed a pressure bleeder.
I feel for your problems but professional repair shops gave up on the old school two man method years ago with professional power bleeders.
Now that a readily available and affordable home unit is available it is a no-brainer to make the purchase and make life easier.
Larry
The problems of fitting a vacuum line to each caliper bleed screw and making sure your supply fluid is sufficient are the primary reasons Garth and I both so highly endorsed a pressure bleeder.
I feel for your problems but professional repair shops gave up on the old school two man method years ago with professional power bleeders.
Now that a readily available and affordable home unit is available it is a no-brainer to make the purchase and make life easier.
Larry
Thanks for all the tips. I know my Mighty Vac is good because I can put my finger on the end of the same hose that I use on the bleeder screw and it holds pressure very good (needle does not move at all). Not sure why I would need to bleed the master though. In looking at Google images of diagrams of the internals of a master, it seems that if I am able to pull fluid through each of the bleeder screws, then that would mean that fluid is running from the resivour down through the master and through the bleed screws. But maybe that simple logic isn't reality of how it works. Maybe I am opening the screws too much and letting some air in during the process. As mentioned above I also saw on line where some say to use the Teflon tape or placement of some grease around the bleeder screw when bleeding. Anyway will give bleeding another try in the wheel order mentioned and see what happens with some grease on the bleeder screws too during the process. Could try the two person method too, but some mentioned that method makes the seals in the master push into areas of the master where the master walls may not be real smooth, and then potentially damage the seals. First, to cover my cars again with the wife's good linen just in case some fluid flips from the hose to car paint...ouch.
Thanks Larry. Is a power bleeder similar to the Mighty Vac where the vacuum unit pulls fluid through, or is that something different?
There are good and bad points on all methods, just use what works for you.
Even Stoptech & Wilwood recommends using the 2 man method..
http://stoptech.com/technical-...pers/bleeding-brakes
https://www.wilwood.com/m/tech...swer.aspx?id=10&no=1
Professional shops have to work with ABS systems where they sometimes set the ecu to prepare for bleeding.
Even Stoptech & Wilwood recommends using the 2 man method..
http://stoptech.com/technical-...pers/bleeding-brakes
https://www.wilwood.com/m/tech...swer.aspx?id=10&no=1
Professional shops have to work with ABS systems where they sometimes set the ecu to prepare for bleeding.
DOES,
I had no luck bleeding the brakes with my vacuum pump. Got a friend to help with the old school push the brake pedal method and they bled out just fine.
Doug M
I had no luck bleeding the brakes with my vacuum pump. Got a friend to help with the old school push the brake pedal method and they bled out just fine.
Doug M
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
DOES,
I had no luck bleeding the brakes with my vacuum pump. Got a friend to help with the old school push the brake pedal method and they bled out just fine.
Doug M
For me I would have to put the wife to work on the brake bleed screw while I pump the pedal with a cold beer in hand. Could do that, but my vac pump seems to draw it through pretty good. I am taking my time more this time, opening the screw more gradual and using some grease around the threads of the bleed screw and watching bubbles. Just got done drawing from the driver side rear & now having a beer to prep for Superbowl. May try the passenger rear before kickoff. Also this time noting which caliper fluid is being pulled from in the resivour too.
If this more methodical approach doesn't work, will then just take it in as that just about reaches my skill level.
just throwing out another thought
are the bleed screws on the upper most part of all calipers?
are the bleed screws on the upper most part of all calipers?
quote:Originally posted by JFB #05177:
just throwing out another thought
are the bleed screws on the upper most part of all calipers?
Always.
The two rear calipers went well, then went to the front passenger side, and not so well there. During the rear caliper bleed, both rear calipers are taking fluid from the front of the resouvour, and I made sure to keep that filled during the process. But on the passenger front, Just air and slight fluid comes out of that line. Even when I tighten the bleed screw down, there is still some bubbles of air coming through when I apply the vacuum to that bleed screw. Not sure where the air could be coming from. Bad bleeder screw or seat? I greased up that area of bleeder screw and vac hose and the grease seems to be in place. Will watch the Super Bowl with a few beers, and see if I experience the same issue with the drivers side front.
I have had my own home made vacuum system for a long time. It really helps flowing a lot of fluid; so much so you almost need some one to stay on the reservoir.
As with anything the details are what make it work. Here are 2 points.
1. I put thread sealant on the bleed screws which helps keep the bleeder form pulling air around the threads.
2. I open and close bleeder using ignition pliers from Seers. Always seems to work better then a wrench.
Also, it flows enough fluid I have put in several master in dry.
Second photo does not show pump attached but it is always attached and running when I bleed. The set up is also good for sucking out fluid from things like the master cyl, power steering pumps, lawn mower oil, etc.
As with anything the details are what make it work. Here are 2 points.
1. I put thread sealant on the bleed screws which helps keep the bleeder form pulling air around the threads.
2. I open and close bleeder using ignition pliers from Seers. Always seems to work better then a wrench.
Also, it flows enough fluid I have put in several master in dry.
Second photo does not show pump attached but it is always attached and running when I bleed. The set up is also good for sucking out fluid from things like the master cyl, power steering pumps, lawn mower oil, etc.
Sounds like the rears are bled fully now. Being a dual circuit you don't need to touch these again.
The front passenger does not sound good.
Do you a balance / equalizer / limiter valve plumbed in there?
See what happens on the drivers front.
The front passenger does not sound good.
Do you a balance / equalizer / limiter valve plumbed in there?
See what happens on the drivers front.
I was able to bleed at the front drivers side, but had to pump like hell and really open it up until pure fluid started flowing without air, and then I closed tight enough just to slowly bleed fluid only through the hose. So I went back to the passenger side front and at that spot I just get a combo of fluid and air through the hose (in fact mostly just lots of air). I have grease around the threads which seems to stay in place, so who knows where the air is coming from through the bleeder screw. Tomorrow will try and peddle bleed on that side and see what happens. I tested the vacuum at the bleeder again when it is closed, and it seems it holds fine. So I believe the screw and seat are ok. If that doesn't work, may then get a pressure bleeder as Larry suggested and try that out. Reading on the net, it seems to operate by pushing fluid through rather than pulling with a vacuum like I am doing. I wonder how a pressure bleeder would work with a 3 cap resivour like mine. I suppose ok, if the 2 other caps are air tight.