Fuel Injection

I was at home and bored so I figured I would do a write up on electronic fuel injection available today as well as some comparisons to older systems. Having run a performance shop with chassis dyno for several years I have had the pleasure/displeasure of installing and tuning several brands and eras of ECU's. This is 100% based on MY experiences with the units I have worked with. There will always be differences in opinion.

Im sure everyone hears the quote "benefits of fuel injection". For those who do not know what those are here ya go. While carbs can be made to start extremely well anyone without some sort of choke assembly knows when the car is cold you have to pump the gas three times and feather the throttle until the car gets some sort of heat in it. Even with a choke you still have to give it a couple of pumps to prime the engine and set the choke high idle mechanism. EFI does this all on its own. Usually when you key on the car or turn the key to the start position the system automatically injects a tuned amount of fuel and increases the idle control system to set the high idle. On good ecus there are about 6-7 tables that can be tuned to provide flawless startup even from the coldest temps. After EFI conversions this is one thing I love to show the customer. To be able to reach in through the window, turn the key and have the car fire up and settle into a perfect idle regardless of conditions can be very impressive to some people. Fuel economy is another great benefit. Once again, a carb can be tuned to provide great economy however it does not adjust for any variables such as altitude, humidity and air temperature. It also cannot provide fuel cut on deceleration nor can you adjust the fueling at individual points of operation. You are limited to jet/rod selection to cover a wide range of operation. Most EFI systems will offer some sort of closed loop fueling system. This means the ECU will measure the mixture, compare it to the desired mixture, and automatically increase/reduce the amount of fuel to achieve its target. Emissions go hand in hand with closed loop operation as well. Multiport EFI systems also offer the additional benefit of per cylinder trimming. In most intake manifolds there are differences in airflow between cylinders. EFI systems know which cylinder is currently receiving fuel therefore can compensate. This is however based on tuner input so is typically only altered by experienced tuners. There is no limitation on induction CFM on an EFI motor. I have seen several cars come through the shop with over sized carbs. This can cause lots of low speed drive-ability issues as there is not enough airspeed through the venturi to properly draw fuel from the jets. EFI does not care. If you want to put a 3000 cfm throttle body on your car and drive it up a hill at 500 rpm wide open it will do so happily (depending on cam choice). That's an extreme example but you get the point. Forced induction, dont even get me started. There are tons of people who would argue however I will confidently stand by my opinion that fuel injection is the ONLY way to get perfect street drive-ability with a forced induction setup. Yes, you can get a REASONABLE tune with a carb and there are guys with magic hands that can tune them for you but in my experience 90% of these systems would benefit immensely from an efi setup and the other 10% would gain some form of drive-ability benefit. Once again I stress this is MY OPINION based on MY EXPERIENCE. Results may vary. There are other benefits such as ease of tuning but I wont go into them all. I will say though that I love when my hands dont smell like gas after a tune as well as when it takes three key presses to change something that would take at least 15 minutes on a carb.

I find that injection manufacturers tend to be clumped into four distinct groups. There are the usual big name ecus that many have heard about that typically associated with imports or road racing applications. In group 1 we will see names like Motec, Haltech, Vi-Pec, Link, EFI Technologies, Pectel, the list goes on. Then there is group 2 which is typically associated with the domestic and drag racing crowds. Here you will find F.A.S.T., Holley, Big Stuff, and so on. Group 3 is for the creative do-it-yourselfers. The big name here is Megasquirt however there are others. Group 4 has all of the "Self-Tuning" systems. There is a reason these are clumped into these groups.

A brief foray onto the individual company websites will show you that Group 1 has no plug and play hardware at all or plug and play hardware available for lots of import cars. In the software you will find options for drive-by-wire, rally anti-lag, closed loop gearshift control with blip shifting, advanced 4D and 5D mapping, traction control, boost control, the list goes on.

Group 2 websites will show lots of optional plug in wiring harness for just about every domestic configuration. In the software you will see a much less busy configuration. Launch control will be there as well as progressive nitrous control, boost control, traction control (to an extent),
These guys have a very specific market in mind and are very good at targeting it.

Group 3 is a mish-mash of everything. I liken it to the Linux of the fuel injection world. It will do everything the high end heavily featured ecu's will do for the most part and for a while they would do it for a fraction of the cost. There have been massive advances here over the last few years however with massive advancements has come a hefty price increase. The cost difference has narrowed significantly. That being said this is still an affordable way to go.

Group 4 is for the people who are looking for the easiest way to get the benefits of fuel injection. They typically come complete as a throttle body style injection unit and have a control module with minimal user input.

Which ecu is right for you? Answering question requires lots of data. What type of driving do you do? What type of engine do you have? What type of modifications have been done to the engine? Do you race? What type of racing do you do? Are you mechanically/electrically capable? What are your expectations of the finished product?

Systems in group 1 and group 3 can typically do it all. Every engine fuel, ignition, trigger configuration is supported. There are options for every kind of race application however support for drag racing will typically not be quite as featured as a group 2 system. Group 1 and 3 systems will also quite often have to have a custom wiring harness made for your application or be custom pinned to your existing harness. Installation of these systems is typically reserved for professionals or at the very least someone with a good understanding of wiring and efi function. The software has considerably more options and tables and can be quite overwhelming for many people. This is especially the case in the Group 3 ecu's. The software is catered more toward the technically savvy and much of the terminology in the software does not match with the industry standard.

Systems in group 2 are a good bet for the muscle car crowd or hardcore drag racing crowd. You can get terminated pre-made harnesses for most configurations that require minimal wiring. Typically you only have to attach power, ground, tach signal, and fuel pump wires. This puts installation of these systems in the skill range of a considerably larger crowd. The software is much simpler and easier to understand however tuning should still be carried out by someone with a good understanding of fuel injection. This would be my recommendation for the majority of muscle car owners who go out for the occasional burn and want something that will give them the benefits of EFI. The one exception to this group is the new Holley Dominator and HP systems. I find these to be a very good crossover ECU. They tend to fall somewhere between group 1 and 2 in their feature set.

This leaves group 4. The "Self-Tuning" ecu. They typically come with an injection unit that bolts to a holley carb flange. At first this seems like the holy grail. Its less expensive than its counterparts, easier to install, and requires no tuner. Cant get much better than that, right? Well, in the real world I have found this to not be the case. Out of all the ones we have sold to customers we have had zero satisfied customers. Every system LOST power, LOST drive-ability, and immensely frustrated the customer as well as myself. These systems MAY work well on a fairly basic engine but once you start adding hi-po stuff they start to lose their ability to tune properly. They cannot make intelligent diagnosis like a human can such as "The car shows lean but is rich misfiring here and it is causing a false lean condition". The self tuning ecu thinks "The car is lean here so I will add fuel". Im sure some have had good results however I have found over the years that customers vary widely on their idea of acceptable drive-ability. I no longer deal with these systems at all.

Wire-in versus plug and play is another thing to consider. Plug and play for modern vehicles is great provided your application is supported. These systems can come as a simple replacement ecu that just plugs in to the existing engine harness or they can come with a patch loom that goes between a wire-in ecu and the stock engine harness. This makes installation dead simple. It takes an experienced installer about 15 minutes. Plug and play ecus can also be provided with a complete engine harness. The units built for musclecars typically come this way. There is one drawback with these harnesses. These harnesses come with an excess of wiring and they are pre-loomed and terminated. This means you have to find something to do with the extra wire. This typically gets coiled up and hidden wherever possible. The looming itself is also not the most attractive. If you are building a show car this can be frustrating. It can really take away from the clean engine bay look. Wire-in ecu's really shine here. Making a custom engine harness can keep an engine bay nice and tidy and allows the installer to customize wire length and hide wires whenever possible. This however adds a considerable expense to the installation as proper wiring should take time. Rushing here is not a good idea.

Reliability has always been a bone of contention with EFI systems and for good reason. The early aftermarket systems were crude and barely had enough memory to complete their required tasks at that time. Many times OEM systems had to make sacrifices on their configuration and mapping purely because there want enough processing power available. Environmental protection was also lacking. Early group 3 systems were notorious for reliability because they were offered in a build it yourself configuration. A large portion of the people building these systems did not have the required understanding nor the skill to properly build and terminate a circuit board. Modern systems have come a long way in this regard. With technological advancements components have gotten smaller and more robust. Sensors have gotten more reliable and function quicker and more accurately. Systems purchased 6 years ago are now dwarfed in function to ones produced today and many times the new systems are less expensive. That's the way with technology. Lots of engineering has been put into aftermarket ecus today and the results are that they have reliability just as good as an equivalent OEM ecu.

I would recommend doing your research with regards to the system you choose. Just because its a big name does not necessarily mean it is the best. I like to push the envelope with the abilities of the ecu's I use. There are some that offer me lots of flexibilty in regard to how I use inputs and outputs where some are quite rigid in how they can be used. All units have a finite amount of inputs and outputs. Once you start adding in lots of features like Quad cam control, electronic throttle, boost control, a/c control, and so on your outputs and inputs can get sucked up really quick. Some ecu's offer better fueling strategies. The more inputs the ecu uses for its fuel calculation typically the more consistent the fueling will be. Good ECU's will have manifold pressure, throttle position, coolant temperature, inlet air temperature, barometric pressure, injector flow. Great ecu's will have all of that plus fuel pressure, fuel temperature, fuel composition (flex fuel), exhaust pressure, injector low pulswidth characterization. Some engines such as heavily cammed or ITB systems can benefit from ecus that give the tuner the ability to use throttle position as a load input. Most new ecus will offer this, some more effectively than others. Another point is processor speed. This has a big bearing on timing stability. Ecu's with fast processors and effective timing strategies will be have much more stable timing. I have actually seen this personally with timing lights. I have seen some ecu's display 5-10 degrees of "jitter" when they are used on engines with a more demanding trigger configuration. To a high output turbo engine or even a high compression N/A engine this can mean death.

In conclusion, do your research. Ask questions. Many tuners, ecu dealers will happily answer your questions. Be aware though that some will steer you towards either what they are comfortable with or make the best margin on. Be sure they tell you WHY the system they are recommending will be good for you. Get a second opinion. My personal favorite at the moment is the Link G4+ systems. I find they have all the features I need with the exception of sequential fuel and direct ignition support for anything over 8 cylinders. Timing is rock solid as well. They are also made in New Zealand and with the US dollar being so strong against the Canadian dollar myself and the customer end up saving a few bucks there. That being said, I am a dealer for them Smiler. For other ecu's I like Haltech Sport series as a wire in and Holley HP/Dominator as a good ecu for classic muscle cars. I have no experience with the new Elite series by Haltech however they seem to have a good feature list and configurability. The new Megasquirt ecu's are VERY capable at a good price however I have little experience with them. As for close to home, Lance Nist from Pantera EFI offers his own ECU which I have heard offers fantastic timing stability although I have no experience with it. Also Jason from Pro-EFI (a Pantera owner) is well known for his ecu's also which I have no experience with.

I do not claim to be the most knowledgeable guy out there but I am more than happy to answer any questions I can. Im sure there are fantastic systems out there that I have not mentioned. Feel free to add your experiences.
Original Post
Great write up Pantera Turbo.

My opinion: if we're talking low miles/year Panteras, the fuel economy can never justify the cost. And a well sorted out carb, especially if not bought too big, will handle choke, idle, WOT and all that.

But the worst thing about EFI IMO is that you give your power away. I can tune a carb, written a book about it, and there's never many miles distance to someone that can help. My 2009 Cadillac CTS-V with faster than OEM running blower, for that car you can buy HP Tuners sw and it's great and user friendly. But there are so many tables and possibilities and words I've never heard before, I can't do it. I have someone on the web helping out, for $s of course, and he's done a great job tuning my car remotely, but I hate not being able to do it myself.

I would never replace the carb on my classic cars, unless I was a good friend of you and you lived next door Wink
I certainly understand Mikael. Tuning the OEM stuff can be especially difficult. I have used HP Tuners for years but the downfall is that the OEM manufacturers are always changing the operating systems and have all sorts of bizarre ways of setting up their ECU's. It is very difficult to keep up unless you are tuning the OE systems day in and day out.

As for giving up power, recent back to back testing has shown otherwise. I will have to see if I can dig up the article. On the same motor, same day, same conditions, a test mule actually GAINED HP over the carb setup.
I'd like to say great write up also. And I fall into the category of thinking the new self tuning stuff was the answer for me. Seemed the fast 2 and the holley easy efi were the best systems for this category. I have to ask, with your experience, what kind of problems did you and owners have with the self learning systems. Is there any hope that the newest systems are better then the early products. I watched a engine masters video on the holley self tuning system on a dyno room engine. Dynoed first with carb and then holley system for comparison on the same engine. The system looked quite good and made a bit more power, not much but a bit.Though dont really know how it would work in cooler temperatures? wondering your thoughts about the new units
Thanks for sharing your insight about EFI. I am in the middle of building a new engine for my 73. I am interested in hearing your opinion about which ecu will be a good choice. The engine is a stroker Clevor with a displacement of 400 ci. The plan is to add EFI and coil near plug. The intake manifold is a Trick Flow unit. The goal is to build a mild street engine. Drive-by-wire capability is preferred. Which ecu do you recommend for easy tuning for someone with a decent amount of engine experience but with very little EFI experience? Thanks.
Ski,
Sorry to take so long to reply. I have been away on vacation for 3 weeks. The major issues we had with the MSD self tuning units were surging at cruise and loss of power. The FAST unit we used was one of the first available and it was pulling fuel when the nitrous was engaged, never a good thing. We upgraded the unit to the Sportsman which allows custom tuning and it gained power even without the nitrous and it has worked flawlessly ever since. The owner says he would not hesitate to recommend that unit to anyone. There is a good chance the bugs may have been worked out of the systems. There have been several firmware updates since then for the FAST units so they may be better now. I would still to this day not recommend the MSD units simply because I was not impressed with much of anything with them and MSD doesnt have a good track record for me with any of their products. I have not used the Holley self tuning systems so I cannot give any input however if they are anything like the learning feature on the HP and Dominator systems it will likely work well. Temperatures should not be an issue at all.

Racecar Mike,
Holley Dominator series would work well for you. The tricky part is finding a harness layout that works for your setup. You might be able to find a pre-built harness say for an LS engine which would have the terminations for the injectors and individual coils. You could also piece together a system using a universal main harness and individual sub harnesses to fit. This will all be based on trigger locations and throttle body and sensor locations.
Thanks for getting back to me.
I had looked into the Holley Dominator but could not tell how user friendly it is. We need a simple tune at first to run the engine on the test stand. After the engine is in the car we will do future tuning. Do you have experience with setting up drive-by-wire? Is it difficult? Thanks again for your input.
Mike
Mike,
As far as user friendliness I would rank the Holley as one of the better ones. There are a couple of little idiosyncrasies but all in all they are good. You will basically have to input engine basics such as displacement, injector size, sensor types and so on. They do have a few base maps you can start with as a template and just plug in your data. This is good because it will start you off with a populated spark and VE map. The DBW stuff is probably the easiest thing to set up. That part is done with step by step instructions in the software.
Blaine -
Thanks for the info on Modern Fuel Injection. I have a question you may be able to help me with, is there a fuel pump available capable of pulling the fuel from the top of the Pantera fuel tank similar to the arrangement of the original mechanical fuel pump? I have a very early 71 Pantera with an aluminum fuel tank. There is no drain fitting on the bottom of the tank to be used for a fuel pump supply connection. Holley has told me that the pump supplied with the Holley system must be gravity fed to operate properly and reliably with the Holley FI systems. So I am looking for an alternative pump rather than having to pull the engine and tank to put a connection in the bottom of the tank.
quote:
Originally posted by BD:
Blaine -
Thanks for the info on Modern Fuel Injection. I have a question you may be able to help me with, is there a fuel pump available capable of pulling the fuel from the top of the Pantera fuel tank similar to the arrangement of the original mechanical fuel pump? ...


Look into the remote sump from Edelbrock. It does exactly what you need. The low pressure mechanical pump supplies the remote sump from your existing tank, and the high pressure pump in the sump supplies the EFI. Should be plenty of room on the right side of the engine compartment for this.

http://www.edelbrock.com/autom.../efi/fuel-kits.shtml
BD, the problem with using the OEM fuel pick-up is, it's too small in diameter. A pump has to suck pretty hard to flow enough fuel. It might be OK, depending on your engine's fuel requirements but the life of your pump won't be as long as it would be with a properly sized fuel pick-up. In early Pantera's, the fuel pick-up and sending unit are separate. If you installed a late Pantera sending unit (with integral fuel pick-up), you could then tee the two pick-ups together. Your next problem will be coming up with a fuel return line. Pantera Performance in Colorado puts the return line in the fuel filler neck. For an electric pump, there are tons of choices. I use a Bosch "044" pump. It's cheap, quiet and super reliable. There are lots of cool billet mounting brackets available for them too.

There may be better ways to solve your fuel pump situation, such as an in-tank pump like Bosswrench has, but I'm not sure if you could do it without removing the tank.
Not currently on my projected list of things but perhaps in the future, and this thread seems a good time to post this question.

My 2511 has the stock fuel drain in the bottom of its steel tank. Is that fitting of sufficient size to properly gravity feed the Holley pump or other similar units?

Larry
BD,
I agree with David in that the pump have some added stress trying to pull from a 5/16 fitting. Another good option would be a universal tank retrofit kit such as this one from Aeromotive. . For the sake of saving money I might recommend installing a Walbro 255 on the 5/16 tank noutlet and see how it works before you spend the big bucks on a retrofit kit.

Larry,
I havent had a stock tank for years so I am not sure what size the drain plug is however I would imagine anything 3/8" or over should be sufficient.
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraTurbo:
BD,
I agree with David in that the pump have some added stress trying to pull from a 5/16 fitting. Another good option would be a universal tank retrofit kit such as this one from Aeromotive.

Blaine
The Aeromotive pumps, even have a 20" extension kit that I think would give the pump enough reach to get to the bottom of the tank.


I have been looking at the FiTech, due to ease of use, and price. But I called the Tech line there today......Lets just say I asked one question and the their tech's answer had me just like Really? Thank you for your time.
I will look at the Holley Systems. Any particular units you like?
Jeff
Jeff,

Your question was directed at Blaine but I'll jump in and offer my 2 cents. The top of the line Holley ECU is the Dominator. That's the one I'm using because I have an I.R. intake and can take advantage of the Dominator's features. If you're using a single throttle body based intake, the Holley HP ECU works great.

Autotrend EFI in Northern California is my Holley dealer and fuel injection Guru! They can even supply a Pantera specific EFI harness for both the HP and the Dominator.
I completely agree with David. The HP units are great if you dont need some of the advanced features of the Dominator and at a considerably reduced price. As for the factory crate motors with electronics that is also a possibility provided you dont want to start messing with things. If you require tuning they are considerably more of a pain than a standalone unit, especially the ford ones. Sometimes the factory tune is not fantastic either. If you go this route make sure to get some reviews first and also be sure to follow ALL instructions regarding intake pipework with MAF fitted engines.
One problem not often addressed is removing the fuel tank drain plug without damaging the tank. The plug is often frozen into the tank bung and our tanks are made of remarkably thin steel. When I tried to remove mine with a wrench, I could see the tank panels visibly rippling and buckling. A vendor says he's had luck using an impact gun set on low but warns that it often takes several minutes before the plug begins to shift. Others say that drilling out the old plug & cleaning the tank bung threads was the only way they got theirs apart. My plug is still in there, as the impact gun idea didn't work for me, and I'm leery of drilling the plug with a couple of gallons of gas inside! Guess a messy siphon is my only choice followed by a non-electric drill.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
One problem not often addressed is removing the fuel tank drain plug without damaging the tank. The plug is often frozen into the tank bung and our tanks are made of remarkably thin steel. When I tried to remove mine with a wrench, I could see the tank panels visibly rippling and buckling. A vendor says he's had luck using an impact gun set on low but warns that it often takes several minutes before the plug begins to shift. Others say that drilling out the old plug & cleaning the tank bung threads was the only way they got theirs apart. My plug is still in there, as the impact gun idea didn't work for me, and I'm leery of drilling the plug with a couple of gallons of gas inside! Guess a messy siphon is my only choice followed by a non-electric drill.


I had to drill my tank plug out, but left about a gallon of gasoline in the tank. I wasn't thrilled about drilling into it, although it is safer than drilling into a tank with just fumes inside. The banjo fitting at the bottom of the tank and a shut off valve does make it nice if you want to change the fuel pump or the fuel filter.
If you completely drain the tank then put enough PB Blaster in the tank to completely cover the threads, it will be much easier to break the plug loose. Let it soak for a while before you try to turn it.

Yes, I saw the tank do the squiggle like Boss
Wrench mentioned.

I am aware of the banjos available but for me, even that banjo was uncomfortably low.

I just put in a modern 22mm plug and went the traditional route with one exception, I put in a new combination float/pick up, calibrated the float.

My tank had the early original integral fuel pick up which had rotted through about 12" up from the bottom of the tube.



I can't speak to the factory tube capacity for running at full throttle, flat out in an endurance race situation but so far with the Webers there has not been any kind of a full delivery problem for me.

Now, if I want to go with FI, the original fuel pick up supply tube can be used as the return and if need be, an internal pump attached to the removable pick up/float sensor assembly can be added and altered to any number of "production" in tank pumps.



I am using duel external pumps. A Holley electric pump and a Holley high capacity mechanical pump. The electric pump primes the fuel system after a long lay off. My system is reduced to 4psi at the carbs so all things are not equal between carbs and FI.

IF you decide to feed from the bottom of the tank you will NEED a positive shut off as close to the tank as you can get it.

Strange things can AND DO happen. There is no possible way to predict what road debris can do. By definition, unpredictable is unpredictable but the last thing that you want to happen is that you need to get under the car to shut off the flow of fuel from the bottom pickup in an emergency situation.

These manual shut off valves also have a nasty tendency of not working when you need them too. Virtually freezing open not to mention the O-rings drying up and eventually leaking. They are just another component to fail on you. Add more components, increase the mathematical probability of a component failure. Simpler is better...and safer.

In that sense the factory type of tank pick up is much safer. As a result, I feel that in this car, all fuel lines, pumps, filters, etc, should be kept ABOVE the level of chassis. Nothing should be below the bottom of the tank.

My car reflects this point of view.



As far as loosening the original tank plug,you could just take a torch and put a lot of heat on the fitting instead of PB Blaster? Big Grin
Great article Blaine,im in the process of doing my new clevlor with inglese electronic fuel injection like webbers in looks the engine is stroked to a 438 callies rods and crank chevy journal 4 inch stroke 4.125 bore C.H.I. 225 3v heads meizre electric water pump ,Danny B timming belt ,comp cams mechanical roller, Fast distributor 11.1 compression on 60cc heads with diamond pistons,i have experience on the mechanical side running a NASCAR modified stock car for years in new England but no experience with electronic fuel injection im doing the mock up now with 180degree headers and having trouble with the linkage with the stock cable that they tell me will work,any and all help any photo's from your experiencewith greatly be greatly appreciated,thanks Jimmy
I run aftermarket EFI on my GT40 replica IR intake.
All i can say is its awesome. The throttle reponse is instant. I run a Microtech Programmable ecu with an Alpha N or TPS tune as the motor has little manifold vacuum for MAP sensing. ai do all my tuning on a Mates Dyno and I make good power ,493hp at the wheels so around 600hp at the flywheel.


video of GT40 flat from 1st to 5th gears
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oMB6_MJo7Uk

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quote:
Originally posted by shelby racer:
Great article Blaine,im in the process of doing my new clevlor with inglese electronic fuel injection like webbers in looks the engine is stroked to a 438 callies rods and crank chevy journal 4 inch stroke 4.125 bore C.H.I. 225 3v heads meizre electric water pump ,Danny B timming belt ,comp cams mechanical roller, Fast distributor 11.1 compression on 60cc heads with diamond pistons,i have experience on the mechanical side running a NASCAR modified stock car for years in new England but no experience with electronic fuel injection im doing the mock up now with 180degree headers and having trouble with the linkage with the stock cable that they tell me will work,any and all help any photo's from your experiencewith greatly be greatly appreciated,thanks Jimmy


In order to use the modified stock Pantera throttle cable use this bellcrank kit. It will mount right up to the cast in tower in the intake manifold.

Mr. Gasket #1523.

You just need to shorten the supplied arms.

Why go with the most complicated solution? Simplify your life. You will live longer...AND be happier.

Chroming everything or cutting it out of billet doesn't make it better. Ask Inglese.

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I am experiencing some hesitation and stall issues and I am thinking it is the carb. I am considering switching to EFI. After reading a number of threads was thinking about moving to the Holley Sniper. The mustang forums seem to think highly of the solution for the Cleveland. Anyone else have experience with the sniper?
quote:
Originally posted by shashi27:
I am experiencing some hesitation and stall issues and I am thinking it is the carb. I am considering switching to EFI. After reading a number of threads was thinking about moving to the Holley Sniper. The mustang forums seem to think highly of the solution for the Cleveland. Anyone else have experience with the sniper?

Shashi, if you want help with your carb, let me know. If you're mentally on your way to EFI, let's not waste time with the carb.
Just to add a little more experience. I installed a FiTech unit on mine. I used their pump and filter kit and took the fuel supply from a fitting in the drain plug. The FiTech has run great for me. Fitech said that their control, varies the fuel pump speed based on demand. I don't hear the fuel pump of course my exhaust is loud. The engine starts with a click and idles nice. Never had any indication of knock or vapor lock. Occasionally on shut off when really hot a momentary run on. I'm quite happy with it. The control display is a nice rectangular piece that I mounted under the dash lip where I can watch while I am driving. Really like the second coolant temp readout on the display as opposed to the inaccurate factory gauge. I also get 3 to 4 more mpg.
Norm

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