Fuel Injection

FYI: for those people who are interested in I.R. EFI systems, the long awaited Borla 351C I.R. EFI manifolds are now available. This setup was spotted at Autotrend EFI in Diamond Springs, CA yesterday. Naturally, it's going in a Pantera (but not mine). This particular setup uses Borla's Weber look-alike throttle bodies, with hidden injectors, but I believe any IDA flange TB would work. Notice the plenum cast into the base of the manifold for the MAP sensor and IAC (if you use one). 

P.S. No, those throttle bodies won't fit below the stock deck lid! 

Hard to tell are those hose barbs on the fuel inlets or AN fittings?

They are AN fittings.

Is this manifold just for iron 4v heads or is there a "high port" version too?  Do you have any prices of the setup? It would be nice if there was a wiring harness and cpu offered as a matching option as well?

Looks like they start at $5230.

https://www.borlainduction.com...-throttle-body-kits/

I installed the F.A.S.T edash unit when it first came out and I am 100 percent satisfied with the unit. It was first installed on top of my dash board, but I later moved it to the vertical area above the gauges. It tells me everything that is going on with the EFI system and it also has oil pressure, voltage, miles per gallon and speed among other things. The F.A.S.T XFI 2.05 system has a low oil pressure cut off, which is something that is nice to have.

@panteradoug posted:

Is this manifold just for iron 4v heads or is there a "high port" version too?  Do you have any prices of the setup? It would be nice if there was a wiring harness and cpu offered as a matching option as well?

4V 351C intake ports only. Borla relies on their dealers for harnesses and CPUs. Autotrend EFI has Pantera EFI wiring harnesses and a range of CPUs to match. They can even go so far as drive-by-wire with auto-blip on downshift! 

Hey David, I know you have connections to Autotrend. Please keep us updated on this project. I would like to hear the results as far as "tuneability" of this manifold and its vacuum signal etc...If it works well I might shelf my Hall manifold and purchase one of these instead.

Randy, it might be a while because the engine builder hasn’t even started building the engine yet but I’ll keep you updated. Dave at Autotrend EFI says he has ZERO doubt the intake system will work perfectly. He has set-up, installed and tuned many of these Borla systems on other platforms and without exception, they run very well. Also, the prototype 351C intake is installed on a Pantera and being driven around Southern California on a weekly basis, without any issues. 

Looks nice & clean. You going to run screens or filters on top?

Thanks David, I'm probably still a year away from firing mine as well...life just gets in the way you know. On a different note does Autotrend have a preference regarding ECU's? I believe you said you were using Holley Dominator. I was pretty set on using Holley H.P. and then someone with a lot of tuning experience told me the Motec M84 was superior for not much more money. If Autotrend is using Holley with success in an I.R. E.F.I. application on a Pantera that would give me some confidence.

Thanks, Randy

Those throttle bodies have been around for at least 5 years. They originally had issues with poor assembly control and had idle issues as a result.

Borla supposedly corrected the issues when the bought them out.

 It's a digital 8 stack system and SHOULD eliminate the reversion issue that carbs have.

It's been a while but someone that I know who converted from Webers to these exact throttle bodies said that they didn't have the same bottom end torque of the carbs.

It looks like a very nice system but is a little pricey. By the time you put a harness and a cpu on it you are at around $8000 just for parts.

@randy37 posted:

Thanks David, I'm probably still a year away from firing mine as well...life just gets in the way you know. On a different note does Autotrend have a preference regarding ECU's? I believe you said you were using Holley Dominator. I was pretty set on using Holley H.P. and then someone with a lot of tuning experience told me the Motec M84 was superior for not much more money. If Autotrend is using Holley with success in an I.R. E.F.I. application on a Pantera that would give me some confidence.

Thanks, Randy

Randy, I hear you about life getting in the way! I went with the Holley Dominator because it was recommended by Autotrend EFI, who was setting up and tuning my system. The Holley has some capabilities I needed and others that I simply liked. I like the fact it has full functionality within the “box”. I have dual oxygen sensors, drive by wire, etc.; all without add on modules or boxes. At one time, Motec was the gold standard. It’s still very popular with racers because of it’s data logging capabilities and versatility but that’s about all I know. To be honest, all of the modern systems are good but it all comes down to software and tuning. I know Autotrend has experience with Motec, Bosch, FAST, DFI and even CIS but for street driven cars, Holley is their go-to system. They have a direct line into the programmers at Holley too, which helps. Everyone has particular tuning targets. I was looking for rock steady, low idle and no stumble or bog when I mashed the throttle at low RPMs. Another item that’s troublesome is drop throttle from high RPM. Frequently, engines will stumble before they go into idle but mine has no stumble at all. Frankly, it just feels like a high performance production car. That’s all I ever wanted but it’s taken me a long time to get there. My first system was a 4bbl style system with Ford EDIS ignition and an Accel DFI cpu. It did nothing well, that is, until the first time I pulled into Autotrend. There really is no substitute for having a pro do the tuning. 

@panteradoug posted:

Those throttle bodies have been around for at least 5 years. They originally had issues with poor assembly control and had idle issues as a result.

Borla supposedly corrected the issues when the bought them out.

 It's a digital 8 stack system and SHOULD eliminate the reversion issue that carbs have.

It's been a while but someone that I know who converted from Webers to these exact throttle bodies said that they didn't have the same bottom end torque of the carbs.

 

It looks like a very nice system but is a little pricey. By the time you put a harness and a cpu on it you are at around $8000 just for parts.

Having less torque down low than Webers is likely a tuning issue since that’s where EFI usually excels. 

“a little pricey” ... that’s a subjective thing!

@does200 posted:

Looks nice & clean. You going to run screens or filters on top?

Jan, it’s not mine, so I don’t know which they’re using. 

@davidnunn posted:

Having less torque down low than Webers is likely a tuning issue since that’s where EFI usually excels. 

“a little pricey” ... that’s a subjective thing!

Yes but that subjectively eliminates me.