Intake set up Edelbrok RPM Performer - "right " or "left" NORTH???

The high side on the carb mounting pad goes to the rear of the engine.

Tx got it...

Matthias

quote:

Originally posted by Mat_G:
Team .. still on learnig curve say 76% now after last help step on gasket.

question is : DOES IT MATTER in which way an intake maniflof should go in?
(well no up or down...
- I habe Edelbrok RPM Performer.
- heades are Trick flow 195 2V

it loooks I can put the Edelbrok Performer RPM either way. See pictures.

IS THERE A Difference on the "socking" channels if longer vs shoter goes left or right side????

Yes. The runners and carb pad are set in a way to provide room for the distributor.

You could in theory reverse it IF you were running a distributor less system BUT then you would be moving the carb forward and that most likely will cause clearance problems with the window?

Ok I see, the neither distributor or carb are in so far.. , understand.
Follow the rule....higher side on carb mounting goes to REAR..

351 C skill level ONE UP....

TX

Matthias

quote:

Originally posted by Mat_G:
.
Follow the rule....higher side on carb mounting goes to REAR..

Normally...sure BUT on a Pantera, the carb pad is level, not pitched, so you would use a wedge spacer under the carb. A Cobra is the same way.

So really it doesn't matter much at all except for the clearance to the window and distributor.

351c expertise is one thing. Pantera expertise is more advanced then just that.

With modifying a Pantera, discretion is the better part of valor?

quote:

so you would use a wedge spacer under the carb.

Or, if your goal is to keep it all low enough to retain the stock engine screen, you can have the carb pad milled flat.

If you take that approach, you will also likely need to use heli-coils or threadserts to correctly realign the four carb pad threaded holes.

Larry

All right..

Quote:
___________________________________________
351c expertise is one thing. Pantera expertise is more advanced then just that.
_________________________________

agree Pantera skill is special in all respect.

I think I will put the engine in and keep the manifold loose to finally check for the clearence, as I want to keep the stock engine screen. Would then consider milling it down. Assume it would be leveled across the carb pad??

..long learning curve...

Matthias

Yes, level.

Blue Thunder actually offers their 351C intake with a flat version just for Panteras. Not aware of any other manufacturer that does that.

Larry

saw an article somewhere slight amount of carb angle made zero difference

quote:

Originally posted by 4V & Proud:
saw an article somewhere slight amount of carb angle made zero difference

is that wrt performance OR fitting the air cleaner under the screen?

I'll guess the angle is 4 degrees and the lid is 18", that would have one end higher than the other about 1 1/4"

'Slight' angle only means you need different float heights in your carb front & rear- if you're running a carb. And that the tall end end of the air cleaner sticks up more than it needs to. This sometimes causes interference and esthetically looks a bit odd. In a street engine, no effect on how it runs.

I flattened the carb pad on a CHI intake for Pantera, didn't realign holes with Helis, drilled the carb base holes slightly bigger. Works great.

TX team,
building up confidence, as I love straight stuff = flat
unless someone can tell me how much to mill from my Edelbrock down I will go my approache ..put engine it with loose header, then measure the OPTIMUM on hight possible..then mill it.
TX again..
Matthias

quote:

Originally posted by Mat_G:...my approache ..put engine it with loose header, then measure the OPTIMUM on hight possible....

while reading the replies, I had that same thought.

BUT, that would be an inconvience so, I will ASSUME the motor will be installed level and thus parallel with the top screen.

while I didn't ask more details, when I spoke to the guy building my engine, I think he just sets the intake runner flange faces level and cuts what ever angle was on the carb base off.

If it was the opposite, (putting a flat based intake in a Mustang), then measuring the motor installed angle might be a good ideal

quote:

Originally posted by Mat_G:
TX team,
building up confidence, as I love straight stuff = flat
unless someone can tell me how much to mill from my Edelbrock down I will go my approache ..put engine it with loose header, then measure the OPTIMUM on hight possible..then mill it.
TX again..
Matthias

3/8", from 0 in the front, to 3/8" in the back, to get the pad level.

I don't know the total to lower it to use a stock air cleaner though although I DO NOT think that particular manifold will have an issue with not enough plenum volume if you cut it down even another 1/2" beyond that?

You need to talk to someone who does race prep for the heads and the intakes with a flow bench.
They will know for sure how much you can cut it down.


There may and for sure are going to be alternative opinions on this but Edelbrock's are not particularly good flowing manifolds out of the box.

In fact, often the stock iron manifolds flow better. The biggest advantage to the Edelbrock's traditionally have been the lower weight of the aluminum.

I would EXPECT that even the RACE application Edelbrocks NEED individual runner porting to deliver what they were advertised to be.

Matthias, sorry if this is obvious, but since this is a dual plane, watch out you don't get the secondary throttle blades too close to the floor on one side. If it hits, big problem obviously. But even if it doesn't hit, the flow may be changed considerably.
Or add a spacer

(The CHI intake I did it on has a huge open chamber)

Since I chose not to install an engine cover, I decided to mill an aluminum spacer. Worked great.

Team ..Tx for feedback..

quote:
________________________________________
I would EXPECT that even the RACE application Edelbrocks NEED individual runner porting to deliver what they were advertised to be.
______________________________________
I have "adapted = ported" the ports from the Edelbrok intake to match my Trick flow heads, was not much but a bit trick to measure the difference in the opening

quote:
______________________________________
I don't know the total to lower it to use a stock air cleaner though although
___________________________________-
I use the modified modern air cleaner (as it came with the car Ford cromed Air filter) ..which appears lower than the original.. just a guess from pictures), anyone has measures on difference in heights? Original vs modern Crome Air filters?

quote:
__________________________________
but since this is a dual plane, watch out you don't get the secondary throttle blades too close to the floor on one side.
____________________________-
very good point, so I will go the cumbersome model installing engine this Saturday with a loose manifold, measure the hights including Carb. and Air filter..also happy to add one or two shims to the fixtures on the motor cover

There is in the center of the Intake Manifold a cut Window to bridge both intake sides (picture). Any thoughts of the minimal size or should I just copy 1:1 as I mill it down (next weeek)?

TX again
Matthias

quote:

Originally posted by Mat_G:
Team ..Tx for feedback..

quote:

There is in the center of the Intake Manifold a cut Window to bridge both intake sides (picture). Any thoughts of the minimal size or should I just copy 1:1 as I mill it down (next week)?

You really can not estimate the effect of the "balance" port without putting it on your engine and on an engine dyno and running it.

I would think that if you mill the pad flat, it won't have a significant effect on the engine.

It PROBABLY is designed to give you a little better or smooth idle with a bit of a radical camshaft AT IDLE.

I can't think of a wedge spacer that has a divider in the center of it. I think that they all will have an "open plenum" design.

So using that kind of a spacer would negate any effect that the balance slot would have anyway.

I would leave the slot alone and use a wedge spacer.


There are some fiberglass extended carb/air cleaner pans made by Kirk Evans, aka, Ameri Sport made for the Pantera engine screen, to give you more room for the carb/air cleaner assembly.

He made them in stages. Small, medium and very high. Inquire with Kirk about those.

You would use the 73/74 engine screen assembly and just change the "pan" to give you more height if you need it.



Just looking at the picture of that plenum, on the "Ford/Motorcraft) A341 intake manifold, the top of the runners as they connect to the plenum,i.e., in relationship to where they intersect with the plenum, your Edelbrock has about 3/8" MORE distance from the top of the runner to the carb mounting plate.

What that means I think is that in theory you can lower that pad another 3/8".

Having said that I just don't know what effect that will have. It PROBABLY would give you an issue with the "accelerator" pump?

On THAT Edelbrock, milling it an additional 3/8" would most likely only give you the carb accelerator mounting interference issue with little or no advantages?



I would compare the plenum and the runners intersection at the top to the A341 manifold. The A341 manifold is a modified Edelbrock Torker intake so it is not a completely alien device to the Edelbrock that you are using here, so I think that is a valid consideration?

I understand that the A341 is now rare and difficult to find but my feeling is that on a Cleveland a 180 degree intake is a design that has maximum effect using an automatic transmission and a 360 like the Torker would be for maximum power effect with a manual transmission?

They have differences on how much torque the engine makes right off of idle. One is MUCH better for the automatic transmission characteristics. The 180.

I am not suggesting that you should change the intake manifold to the A341. What I am saying is compare the plenum to the top of the intake runners on the two. That will give you an idea how much you can mill down the carb pad on your Edelbrock.

I don't have any pictures of the A341 that would show that relationship of how the top of the ports flow into the plenum though. This is the best that I can do, but the top radius of the intake runners have no vertical wall at the intersection of the plenum like your Edelbrock does.

You can see at the front side of the plenum, the top of the runners is right there in the plenum with NO radius at all?

Maybe Mr.Pence has some pictures that better show this? Just a thought.

The raised mounting area is for a "drag" application, can you return it and get a non-drag intake? It seems to me they sell the majority of their performers without the wedge cut in the manifold. I had a "Blue thunder" Holman Moody style intake with the same rake, I fixed the problem by running a wedge spacer, then a 1" phenolic spacer, that was before they offered a non wedge model.

Hi ..Team
got a language and tech issue "what does Wedge mean"...PLEASE need some explaination
a) sorry missing still detail in my good brain...learned a lot from the team fellows!!
b) sorry .. what is a "draged application".....

AGain have applied:
1)TrickFlow Heads 2V style ..
2) have "ported the Edelbrok Intake manifiold..to the Trick FloW heard.. little work as 2V Heads.
3)I will put Engine in the car this Saturday
3) will measure the MAX hight to see what MAX HIGHT NEEDS TO BE taken of.

PanteraDoug .. the exhaustive comments - ToPPP class - I still need to diguest

Tx again ..4907 looks top, want to run it befor winter comes

Matthias

This is a wedge spacer. They sometimes are called "marine spacers" since boats have their engines installed "level" like the Pantera does and MOST intake manifolds are made anticipating that the engine is installed on an angle and cut the carb pad on an angle to level the carb. Got that?

It is most desirable to install the carb level but not absolutely mandatory.

Hi Team
well engine is in...8 hours work.
did put it on Sailer's rope good for 2000KG/each ..pounds ??
but all fine.!!! No issue, a bit tricky as rope needs to go right into the Blance point/ middle of the engeine, did took us some time to blance the BIG Block..

Ok NOW..clearance Intake/Carb to engine cover:

1) will mill the Edelbrok Performer RPM down ON the LOW side for about 6 mm leaving 4 mm as rest. The upper side as intake has thsi angel hast to go down app 15 mm (0.6 ich ). This leaves anough depth/material in intake for the carb screws..(a bit of drilling and taping extra on the higher side)

2) What can I do on the INTAKE filter hights?????
have today a normal Holley 600..useed (might replace it
BUT can the intake Filter beeen reduced by OTHER Models? I mean to total hight!!! as the Filter on the inner side to fit the Holley is obvioulsy bend in..!!

Any experience ?!!!??
(sure worst case I will bend the engine cover grid, and add adequate Aluminium spacers to have it look top class...).


Tx Team

Matthias

quote:

Originally posted by Mat_G:
Hi Team
well engine is in...8 hours work.
did put it on Sailer's rope good for 2000KG/each ..pounds ??
but all fine.!!! No issue, a bit tricky as rope needs to go right into the Blance point/ middle of the engeine, did took us some time to blance the BIG Block..

Ok NOW..clearance Intake/Carb to engine cover:



2) What can I do on the INTAKE filter hights?????
have today a normal Holley 600..useed (might replace it
BUT can the intake Filter beeen reduced by OTHER Models? I mean to total hight!!! as the Filter on the inner side to fit the Holley is obvioulsy bend in..!!

Any experience ?!!!??
(sure worst case I will bend the engine cover grid, and add adequate Aluminium spacers to have it look top class...).


Tx Team

Matthias

The round filter that you are showing, to my knowledge is the lowest mounting that there is.
The dropped base originally appeared on the L88 big block Corvette around 1969.

I personally would look at the option of changing the engine screen from the early, all screen version, to the later L model that puts the "pan" over the carb/air cleaner assembly.

Try that first, then if you need more clearance, get in contact with Kirk Evans for his taller pan. I think that he has them in three additional heights?

They are cast from fiberglass and look like the original pan, just taller.

You probably could then use the original designed air cleaner assembly.

That, the original, actually is a well engineered air cleaner assembly.

These days if you need to go out and buy one it probably is around an $800 part. Many originally got replaced because people started playing with changing intake manifolds and carburetors.

The original air cleaner can seem cumbersome at that point since it doesn't pop on and off as quickly and simply as something like the L88 does PLUS the chrome on the top lid rusted quickly, especially on the Pantera where the air cleaner is more exposed to the elements if you drove the car in all kinds of weather.

The choices for alternate air cleaners for single 4v carburetors is not good for the Pantera. There are some, but they mostly are weird looking things that obviously were not original to the car.

It probably is more of a situation of what you are willing to accept appearance wise then it is to which one works the best.

I think the original works the best and the ironic thing about it is many now are accepting that it looks the most appropriate and looks the best too?

If you follow ebay, notice that they do not last long when they are posted for sale?