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motor options advice please

pantera2040pantera2040Member
I am thinking of selling all of my 351 parts, a complete solid lifter, roller rocker,chamfered crossdrilled crank with hall 180s complete carb to pan, a second short block, two sets of heads open and closed 4v 5 cams, one internally balaced and nitrided, one new set of aluminum screwpin rods one, set of forged rods, a full set of new roller rockers, new lifters, new ss valves, new pushrods, another eddy manifold performer 351 4v, moroso gold stud girdles arp headstuds,one set trw forged pistons new and a new full set of M/T (10) forged pistons and a ton of other goodies in favor of going with a modern 302 stroked to 347 or a modern 4.6 supercharged cobra motor or a FMS cammer motor, or a 5.4. My consideration is the matability of the afforementoed motors to the zf transaxle and parts/fabrication that wouldbe neccesary. I'm sure if I sold/ebayed my parts I would be well on y way to paying for a new motor but want to know how big a canof worms i am getting into before I consider the project and which headers would clear the body. Thanks!
Ryan
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D detom (Guest)
Ryan, IMHO the windsor crate motors are the way to go. It is the most adaptable to the tranny, parts are cheap and plentiful. In fact you can buy several and swap them out as they blow up. You can get windsor crate motors from all kind of race car builder outfits. The drag racing mustang crowd has some of these engines pumping out thousands of horsepower. Some of them can last a good 40 miles or so before blowing up too. Get a copy of a mustang magazine at any newstand and be prepared to be shocked by what is available for cheap dollars. Wink
George PGeorge PAdmin.
Good call Doug!

Although I am a Cleveland die hard, I believe the 4 cam modular motor conversions are the future! 4.6, 5.0 or 5.4. Obviously the 5.4 is a taller motor, so the 4.6 & 5.0 may be less intrusive to your rear view. There is a single four barrel carb intake available now, to reduce hassle, but I've read that EEC V conversions are becoming more mainstream too. Fuel injection should be on everyone's list if they can afford it. That is also the future.

Collector's Choice & Panteras by Wilkinson have specialized in these conversions, they'll have the parts needed. The head castings have to be slightly notched to clear the rear fender tubs, no big deal. The trans is a direct bolt on. The prices of modular crate motors has come way down. Headers are available. A flat firewall is a big benefit.

Go for it, don't look back!
pantera2040pantera2040Member
I've seen a few 4.6 cobra motors around and HCI my builder susally has a line on a few as well complete with injection and computer they bolt up to a tremec t45 trans stock. If I went that route, I'd want to supercharge it since my cobra was built with too high of compression and i'm "forced" to go on the bottle. I guess I have enough parts to build one hell of a cleveland but ful injection and a supercharger would be sikk.
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
Check out these links for more info on the quad-cam motors:

Richard Barklay
http://home.earthlink.net/~rlbpantera/

Kevin VanKnoppen (half-way down the page)
http://www.panteraplace.com/page39.htm

Kris
http://pantera.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2250045562/m/9190078143

Get in contact with any of these owners and I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you what was involved in the conversion. Also, any of our Pantera vendors should be able to tell you what's required, and even supply you the necessary pieces. Call PI, the sponsor of this bbs. I'm sure they can help.

Cheers!
Garth
#4033
D djezcMember
Dude - If you want power and reliability: Dart sportsman block bottom end with CHI or AFD Aluminum Cleveland Heads. The block comes standard in either 4.00 or 4.125 bores, 9.5 deck height. Will easliy make 500 HP in most configurations, after all these heads made 700 HP on a 410 inch small block ford and went on to win the Engine Masters competition last year.

Trans will bolt right on.
pantera2040pantera2040Member
what about the parts i have sees Like i have all the parts to make a sick motor. Another option i have been looking into is a 347 stroker 302. There is one on Cafords for sinificantly less that sean hyland (i have a mustang cobra know about him) the FMS crate. it will produce 380 tp 400RWHP in a 5.0 fox body mustang. How much hp is lost to the transaxle? dohc is the mach one motor (ot a cobra different intake manifold and smaller valves)
Thanks
Ryan
pantera2040pantera2040Member
shoot thats about equal to a sold rear axle car hmmm the 302 based 347 might not be a bad idea. Ive got two 4 bolt main cleveland motors right now and all the nifty parts. I love the relaibility if my hci built cobra motor although the compression is so high and the long tubes suck oil into the pcv and i blow oil on decel. It has embarrassed many porshce owners though even if I m blowing smoke out the back.
pantera2040pantera2040Member
need to decide if Im goin cleveland 347 351w dohc or what.. itall after the first order of business which is body/paint. My bundle of snakes are not hall they are the other ones and not for sale at the moment. I will probably sell off my entire cleveland if as a pantera motor if I go with another mill. thanks for all the advice and links thus far! I appreciate all of it!!!
D detom (Guest)
Well to make matters even more confusing, people have put in small and big block chebbies, Chrysler Hemis and BMW V8s. They have talked about Mazda Wankel engines, Bentley W-12s and Viper V-10s. I have even toyed with the idea of a Bell turbine. I just don't think the ZF would have low enough gearing to support it though.
George PGeorge PAdmin.
from the Sean Hyland web site:


Quote: The Sean Hyland 600 HP Crate Engine utilizes our 6 liter aluminum block, billet steel main caps, forged steel crankshaft, forged H beam rods, forged pistons. The Ford GT 4 valve cylinder heads use SHM camshafts to operate the valves. A 4bbl Demon carb sits on an aluminum intake, and the ignition is provided with a crank trigger system. The engine comes complete with air filter, water pump, and one wire alternator. Perfect for street rods and project cars.

1 year warranty $14,995

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George PGeorge PAdmin.
quote:
Originally posted by jeff6559:
...Sean Hyland Block: do you think that will fit in a Pantera?...


Yes Jeff, it is dimensionally identical to the 5.4 modular V8 block. The Sean Hyland block is a heavy duty version with larger bores.

quote:
Originally posted by lastpushbutton:
...WOW That is one badass 4 valve motor, but for 10 g less you can have this...


Bill, did you ever visit that shop? They are selling that motor for less than the price of the parts they advertise. Something is up, and I don't trust them at all. A big name engine builder can charge much more than that for a motor and sell everyone of them. I agree the Sean Hyland motor is expensive, but that is the normal price for a motor built by a big name company. I trust the motor built by the Sean Hyland outfit, no impossible claims.

your friend on the DTBB
L lastpushbutton (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by george pence:

Bill, did you ever visit that shop? They are selling that motor for less than the price of the parts they advertise. Something is up, and I don't trust them at all. A big name engine builder can charge much more than that for a motor and sell everyone of them. I agree the Sean Hyland motor is expensive, but that is the normal price for a motor built by a big name company. I trust the motor built by the Sean Hyland outfit, no impossible claims.

your friend on the DTBB
George, I never visited the shop. They have 100 % positive feedback! You get a dyno sheet with it. Maybe they buy parts in volume from China?
J jwr2968 (Guest)
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by george pence:

Bill, did you ever visit that shop? They are selling that motor for less than the price of the parts they advertise. Something is up, and I don't trust them at all. A big name engine builder can charge much more than that for a motor and sell everyone of them. I agree the Sean Hyland motor is expensive, but that is the normal price for a motor built by a big name company. I trust the motor built by the Sean Hyland outfit, no impossible claims.

your friend on the DTBB
George, I never visited the shop. They have 100 % positive feedback! You get a dyno sheet with it. Maybe they buy parts in volume from China?

I'd be a bit scepticable on that also.Besides,it's a winsor.Also,what's a dyno sheet mean?How do you know it came from that motor?
davidbdavidbMember
I had my 351C stroker motor built with what I think was a lot of care and fine parts (see details on my web site). I'm know there are bigger badder monsters out there, but I drive the pi%% out of mine regularly and it remains totally 100% trouble free after 5 years. And with 522 hp and 511 ft lbs of torque it kicks the crap out of most other stuff on the road.

Total cost $8,000.

David #9203
http://www.canspan.com/pantera

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George PGeorge PAdmin.
It is as very well done motor David, and pretty too! I've always liked the look the Moroso valve covers lend to the motor. Its all the motor a Pantera needs, in my opinion. But that is just my opinion, others disagree, want more.

The younger guns are more familiar with the modular V8s, hence my earlier recommendation. You know I love the good ol' C myself. I'm looking forward to building a nice one for 6018 once Tod B's new block hits the market. It'll be the last engine I build. I think lol...........

How's oil consumption these days? I'm amazed that synthetic oil had kept the rings from seating, amazing stuff that synthetic oil!

your friend on the DTBB
L lastpushbutton (Guest)
quote:


How's oil consumption these days? I'm amazed that synthetic oil had kept the rings from seating, amazing stuff that synthetic oil!

your friend on the DTBB
George you are right on. I built a 350 for a Corvette I had. Without thinking I used sythetic oil before breaking it in. That motor used oil like crazy. I changed the oil back to non sythetic. The stuff must have been stuck to the engine parts, It used oil till the day I sold it. I never did get the rings to seat properly. I have heard that GM had a bulliten out in 1957 that called for pouring Comet or Bon Amee down the carb with it running to seat the rings. I was scared to do it!
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
Dave,

Your engine compartment is beautiful. I'm particularly interested in your chassis brace (spreader bar?). I have the old Hall-style square tube spreader bar that seats all the way in the fender well recesses, and I was thinking of adding a lower section to this brace like yours. I don't like the new upper rear chassis braces I've seen that place the entire load on the bolt and the little bit of metal they're bolted to.

Did you buy it from a vendor? Or, did you have it custom fabbed? Did you buy someone's rear brace and mate it to the old spreader bar? And, what did it cost?

Thanks,
Garth
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