My new ZR1 Moniker

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This is to go with my new moniker that no one noticed.

Scott,

I noticed, but I didn't want to spoil your pictorial debut.

Chris really saved his money quickly for that engine.

John

Very nice!That should do the trick nicely and seeing as you already have the LS3 in there most of the hard work is already done. Have any ideas yet on heat exchanger location?

I just see $$$$$. Is there something else in the picture?



Lots of power there, with good reliability.

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Have any ideas yet on heat exchanger location?

No, not yet... That is way down the list of items I need to figure out. It is going to be a fun journey!!!

600+ Lbft of torque and all of it available down low. Simply baddass. Congrats! Can't wait to see this come together...

Checkout the size of the Throttle Body!

Okay, sorry to be rude, but I've just got to ask how much that crate motor set ya back?

And just like your LS3 its reverse cooled, thats got to be good for keeping the Pantera cool.
Cubes & supercharger, you can't beat it.

(These engines in crate form are listed on the internet at $21,000.00 USD)

regards,
Tony.

I wanna see how you make this thing fit.

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I wanna see how you make this thing fit.

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And just like your LS3 its reverse cooled, thats got to be good for keeping the Pantera cool.
Cubes & supercharger, you can't beat it.

(These engines in crate form are listed on the internet at $21,000.00 USD)

regards,
Tony.

Hi Tony, The LS3 definitely runs cooler which is a good thing! $21,000.00 is a good price but it could be had for quite a bit less if you wait for the right deal to come along... It is going to be a fun project. I have most of the issues worked out but I am sure there will be some additional challenges that I haven't thought of. But that is the fun of it! Take care, Scott

Scott
This swap mast be amazing, Corvette ZR1 curb weight is 1600kg/3540lbs and my Pantera (LS3) curb weight is 1355kg/3000lbs, your Z06 Pantera must be around 1400kg/3100lbs??
You must get exceptionally performance ZR1 0-100km/h = 3,6s, ZR1 Pantera =? (10-15% lighter)
My concern is how to get the throttle/intake to fit, can you turn it 90 degree to the left?
Can you later on measure the distance from c/c crankshaft or water pump shaft, to top of the charger pulley and air intake, eager to know if it will clear the frame.
Please post more picture during the swap.

Yngve!!!!! Good to talk to you again!!!

Yes, the power to weight ratio should make it quite entertaining to drive!

I will be doing some real world measuring today but I have already mocked it up in CAD. The intake is going to have some challenges BUT, there are several ways to address the issue.

I will be posting pictures as I go... How about you post some pictures of your beautiful LS3 Pantera?

Take care, Scott

what was the inspiration for LS7? There must be less expensive ways to get to that power level?.........

Hi Jon,

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what was the inspiration for LS7?

You mean LS9...

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There must be less expensive ways to get to that power level?

Of course there is!!!

Have you seen or read about the LS9? It is a fricken work of art! It will idle unbelievably tame but the powers is there when you need it. Also VERY reliable. GM had to over engineer the hell out of it to be able to give it a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty.

And there is also the fun of doing it, just because!

I could probably get to that power level for half the cost but that wasn't my goal for this project...

Take care, Scott

Awesome project! Can you flip the intake around backwards so the throttle body comes off the rear? Don't know if that's possible with the supercharger. Worth exploring.
http://edgemansgtm.weebly.com/engine.html

Keep us updated!

Great project, you think your ZF will survive a LS9

keep on going Arno

I did. sorry about that! I have and know that its an extremely potent engine. Can't wait to see the results.

I was just curious. Good luck and I can't wait to see some video!

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GM had to over engineer the hell out of it

Just out of curiosity, what would that mean? Thicker this and that? Different materials? Blueprinting? Or the other way around, the computer keeping the timing and mixture conservative and thereby losing power? Or all of the above?

For sure it's a powerhouse, and any non-bowtie-hater must love it. Still the price tag 5x (?) above a LS3 is a lot? But I guess "Speed is just a question of money, how fast can you go?" -Mad Max

Hi Mikael,

This project is somewhat interesting. I have gotten some really negative comments from some people on some other forums. I guess some folks don’t like the cost of the motor but who cares anyhow? I mean, it is my money, so do people really care that much about my personal finances. Anyway, I digress…

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Just out of curiosity, what would that mean?

It means that they spent a lot of time insuring that it would survive a 5 year 100 mile warranty… reliability! (hopefully)

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Thicker this and that?

Yes

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Different materials?

Yes

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Blueprinting?

Yes

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Or the other way around, the computer keeping the timing and mixture conservative and thereby losing power?

Yes

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For sure it's a powerhouse, and any non-bowtie-hater must love it. Still the price tag 5x (?) above a LS3 is a lot?

Most love it and everyone hates the price… 5x’s an LS3… WOW, I don’t think so…

Thanks for the interest! It is going to be an interesting and fun project.

Take care, Scott

Scott
The LS3 Swap changed the car drivability to be that brisk and with a supercharger it can not be other then Super.
The swap is relative easy to perform, on the minus side It is not a Ford engine but on the other side it is a small engine that fit very well in Pantera, 250-275 lb lighter than cleveland is many "ponys" in additional to the 480 in LS3.
Yngve

One more

Almost flat and "electronics" accessible inside cabin

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Originally posted by Yngve#2483:...............250-275 lb lighter than cleveland is many "ponys"

What is the total dressed LS9 weight including intercooler and dry sump?

Best,
K

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yngve#2483:...............250-275 lb lighter than cleveland is many "ponys"

What is the total dressed LS9 weight including intercooler and dry sump?

I believe Yngve was referring to the LS3...

I would guess that since the dry weight of the LS9 is 530 pounds it would be in the neighborhood of 600 pounds with oil and intercooler plus plumbing. The ZR1 corvette is 10.75 quarts of oil if I recall and oil weighs almost 7 pounds per gallon

In comparison, Ford quotes a weight of 315 KG's (about 695 lbs) for the all aluminum 5.4L Ford GT motor, including dry sump oiling system, although I'm not sure if that's a "wet" weight.

Scott mentions he's taken some critisism over this project, based on the cost of the LS9, however; considering the low weight, compact dimensions, power output, driveability and reliability of the motor, the cost is VERY reasonable. Jeg's sells the LS9 for less than $19,000 including shipping! It pains me to say, my Fontana aluminum block based, injected, "Ford" motor cost me considerably more to build than the "good guy" price of an LS9. The non-supercharged LS7 costs about $5,500 less than the LS9 yet still puts out over 500 HP. Slip in a new cam, tweak the ECU and the LS7 comes close to 600 HP, normally aspirated. If you don't want the complication of the LS9's supercharger or the LS9/LS7's dry sump, GM has an LS3 crate motor that's rated at 525 HP, for $7,500...with a warranty. How can you beat that?

Pretty sure the Ford GT weight figure is the dry weight but includes all the accessories(power steering, ac, alternator etc) and the dry sump tank plus clutch and flywheel. No denying the Ford GT motor is heavier. The Ford GT motor was quite a bit more expensive when it was available somewhere between $34000 and $45000 and if you paid a core charge. One is on Ebay right now for $39000. Plus the GT motor is huge. Ford Parts Direct currently is listing the Ford GT bare block at about $6600.

http://www.fordracingpartsdire...LOCK_p/m-6010-gt.htm

Scott,

I'm curious about one aspect of your LS9 project: are you planning to keep the dry sump oiling system, or will you be converting the motor to wet sump?

It seems to me, if you were keeping the dry sump, you could lower the entire drivetrain a couple of inches, which might buy you a little more room at the front of the motor. I assume you already have CV jointed half-shafts, which would make lowering the ZF a bit easier. You might even be able to lower the motor enough, so that the TB fits into the hump between the seats!

Lowering the drivetrain would also drastically improve your CG. If I recall, Jack DeRyke has lowered the drivetrain in his Pantera by a small amount.

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I'm curious about one aspect of your LS9 project: are you planning to keep the dry sump oiling system, or will you be converting the motor to wet sump?

It seems to me, if you were keeping the dry sump, you could lower the entire drivetrain a couple of inches, which might buy you a little more room at the front of the motor. I assume you already have CV jointed half-shafts, which would make lowering the ZF a bit easier. You might even be able to lower the motor enough, so that the TB fits into the hump between the seats!

Lowering the drivetrain would also drastically improve your CG. If I recall, Jack DeRyke has lowered the drivetrain in his Pantera by a small amount.

Hi David,

I do plan on keeping the dry sump. Good point on lowering the drive train. I will be lowering everything as much as I can. I have already mocked it up in CAD and I believe everything will fit WITHOUT swapping the intake 180 like I did on the LS3. I won't have a flat firewall but it will be flatter than the stock cover...

Take care, Scott

Scott, one more question: will you be using GM's electronics/controller kit or will you go aftermarket? If GM, I guess that means using the "drive-by-wire" throttle pedal that comes with the kit.

Scott, I think that what you are doing is great. I will be following your progress with great interest. Who knows,maybe even following in your footsteps. Ignore the naysayers,you are going to end up with a great car. Just do what Alejandro did and put "Detomaso" plaques on the valve covers. Jim Coyne

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Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:

... I have gotten some really negative comments from some people on some other forums ...

I appreciate the positive comments and support you've received here.

Thanks to everyone

-G

Great job, Scott!
My hat goes off to you and your work.
Again, nevermind the negatives from people. Its your money, dreams and your car. Do as you wish.
I ask only one thing from you....
Videos when you're done.
Can't wait....
Will

Cant wait to see your videos on the track with that beast!

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Scott, one more question: will you be using GM's electronics/controller kit or will you go aftermarket? If GM, I guess that means using the "drive-by-wire" throttle pedal that comes with the kit.

There wasn't a GM controller available for the crate motor until this year. It was announced at SEMA I believe. I haven't seen pricing yet.

Since the GM computer would require I duplicate the ZR1 fuel system(and that system is complex and expensive), I decided to go with an aftermarket computer. Also, with the aftermarket system, I can tune with a laptop and there are a lot of cool features with the software.

The aftermarket kit is also "drive-by-wire"...

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Scott, I think that what you are doing is great. I will be following your progress with great interest. Who knows,maybe even following in your footsteps. Ignore the naysayers,you are going to end up with a great car. Just do what Alejandro did and put "Detomaso" plaques on the valve covers. Jim Coyne

Thanks Jim!

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quote:

Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:

... I have gotten some really negative comments from some people on some other forums ...



I appreciate the positive comments and support you've received here.

Thanks to everyone

-G

This is a great forum, no doubt about it.

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Great job, Scott!
My hat goes off to you and your work.
Again, nevermind the negatives from people. Its your money, dreams and your car. Do as you wish.
I ask only one thing from you....
Videos when you're done.
Can't wait....
Will

Thanks Will, Videos will be forthcoming!!!