Hi All,

As promised, please find attached our 1st proposal of our 8, 9 & 10 x 15" wheel for the Mangusta. The 8 would give another 1" track on either side (front), the 9 likewise on the back and the 10, a 2" wider track on either side.

It's early days and nothing is set in stone so your imput is welcome and valued.

I'll be able to let you know prices in the next couple of days.


Regards

Jonathan

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Jonathan,

Very nice! I can't wait to see what the cost work out to be. There are several Mangusta owners in the UK and I'm sure it would not be too difficult to connect you with someone so as to verify details that my impact fit, as Patrick has offered for his GR4 project.

I think these look great. One thought would be to narrow the ribs a tad on the 8" wheel because if you compare them to an original wheel they are quite stout. I quite like what you've done as it looks more robust (and matches the 10" wheel more closely) but some may feel it's too much a departure. I realize that you are probably only able to reference the one image posted of the 10" wheel. Here's a stock (later) 8" "Rear" wheel as reference.

I'm looking forward to the numbers when you get that far.

Cheers,

Mark

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Hi Marc
I spoke to Jonathan this afternoon, and we are going to meet in the coming weeks . I will go and visit the manufacturing plant
Should we open a Pantera GR4 wheels topic ? George CowBoy ?
It now is in the pipeline... and I must say , after talking to Jonathan, that it looks serious . We are now considering alternatives between aluminium and magnesium,( pricewise) depending on use ( road or track ) but also an enlightened version of aluminium wheel for race use ONLY.( no sidewalks, no curbs, ... what about rumbling strips ? )
Not suspended weight is a key issue when it comes to racing, and I would appreciate to have further comments on that aspect from " those who know" .
Pantera boyzzzzzzzzzz, put one or two Campagnolo GR4 sest of wheels ( 10 and 14 ) on top of your Santa's list . It might happen this time, unless Cesare wakes up ! Cesare ?
I also must stress that jonathan has full product liability insurance, certificate of garantee, ... and I am sure we'll work something " intelligent, fit for the job,adequately priced ( hopefully ) and appropriate" together
If you look at this wheel it doesn't look so delicate, it looks more "Butch" with what seem to be wider ribs, I think it suits the extra dish, otherwise the ribs could look a little lost....?

I'm not saying ours IS right, there's still work to do and the nice thing is that everyone has an imput.


Regards

Jonathan

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Jonathan,

I agree with you about the more solid look. I'm just anticipating the purist response. Wink Please do whatever is needed to garner the most orders to get the project moving.

Either way, please put me at the front of the line. A nice fancy set of new wheels is just the kick in the butt I need to get my restoration project started.

Patrick, I hope the meeting goes well and that you FINALLY end up with some spare wheels for heavy track use. Exciting times!

Mark
I like the look of the wheel. I also agree with Mark, the ribs should be a bit slimmer and smoother around the edges to better match the original look. As with the Pantera Campy clones a larger diameter would be better to run more modern tire configurations. Perhaps at least a 17 inch diameter would be better. With 15 inch diameter there are very limited tires that can be used. Mostly BFG radial TA which is really old technology and not very sticky or good in the wet. If there are larger diameter wheels count me in for a set. Ben
Jonathan,
The presentation is very nice and the wheels look very good. It is the subtleties and the major theme that make the Mangusta wheelsso perfect for the car as the originals have a "hand made look". The unusual aesthetic part of the original is the I-Beam spoke. Also, as someone mentioned, the original car had deep dish wheels that had a large offset and were great looking, better than the final production wheel.
Having said that. Your wheels can be improved significantly in the spoke area from my viewpoint as a Mangusta purist. The blade on the I-Beam spoke is too wide, the section could be tapered from the base and rolled off at the end on both sides. This would also make it look narrower, like the original. If you executed it like the prototype wheel with a large filet as it blends with the rim it would look fantastic. This could be done on all sizes.
Since you are doing this in CAD, can you try what I have described as a comparison to what you have?
Dick Ruzzin
Jonathon,
My following comparison is to the first Mangusta prototype wheel in the rear, the car was a coupe with a golden tone to the paint, that rear wheel had a fileted spoke intersecting the rim.

Dick Ruzzin
Jonathan,
Looking again there are two other major things, 1) The boss for the emblem is missing. You probably were going to add this.
2)The spokes intersect a flat surface on the hub that the original did not have, making the holes smaller.
Can it be made narrower so that it is not a major part of the theme?

Dick Ruzzin
Jonathan,
One more. The wheels look modern, flat surfaces, corners and milled rather than cast. That is in the execution of the surfaces and intersections. Example, the rim section.
If you can spend a little time looking carefully at the original and softening intersections and slightly curving surfaces it will start to look more in character with it. This is a big detraction as the theme is the same but the wheel character is different.
Dick Ruzzin (+313-824-0539)
Dick is making some great comments to move the subtle details towards the original design. Nobody will have a better eye for the details than Dick does.

I for one will always keep my original wheels and "wear" them when the car is on display. I want to preserve my rare original wheels and, like with my Pantera, having a set of modern wheels/tires on the car when doing long road trips is what I'm looking for. I'm not as concerned if these new wheels don't replicate the originals exactly because I will never present them as such. I just love the original Mangusta wheel design (in the same way I love the original Pantera 10" wide Campys) and want a "modern" version for every-day use.

Keep up the great effort Jonathan!

Mark
Hi All,

I think thanks should go out to Dick for all his work that he is about to embark on!! Smiler

"My" design for the Mangusta wheel if I'm being totally honest was an amalgamation of Mangusta/Fiat 131 Abarth Group 4 and Porsche 911 RSR Campagnolo as it was also an after market wheel, similar in design to the Mangusta wheel.

We had designed the wheel with -12 to +12 ET on the 8". Along with the 9" that I proposed in the first place the 2 sizes would fit several applications and make the wheel more affordable due to it's (relative) bigger market.

The more I have got involved here, it hasn't taken me too long to realise that a stand alone wheel is needed for the Mangusta. This however makes the exercise more costly.

What I propose, after a little reading/research, is an 8 x 17 and a 10 x 17 to make full use of tyre availability. What we would do is to produce a brand new rim form (the wall of the wheel), top core (face back) and bottom cores (face), this way we can produce an enlarged exact copy of the original wheel.

A costing has been carried out for this and a set of 4 wheels in low pressure die cast LM7 alloy would cost £1740, around $2800, these figures are based on 60 front and 60 rear wheels. Wheels are guarenteed for race/rally applications and come with full product liability insurance.

Everyone would be involved in the design process and have their say and see the wheel evolve from CAD and technical drawings, through the production process to finished product.

Your thoughts....?


Regards

Jonathan
The price sound quite fair. Certainly cheaper than an original wheel. Low pressure cast should be cheaper. Forged may be more expensive. As long as the wheel carries more of the original styling, count me in. I am pleased you chose 17" as compared with 15". The tyre choices are far more and better and in my opinion will look nicer yet keeping the stock look. Very similar to how Campy clones look on the Pantera. Looks like they blend well with the original car yet still keeps a bit of the modern technologies so the car handles and drives better. I have a set of 18 inch customs on my car but if you make the 17" Mangusta clones I would far prefer a more original look. The closer the look of the wheel to the styling of the original Mangusta rim the better. I think there should be an option of painted silver vs. a polished look. I personally like the polished look. Ben
Hi All,

Well....it would seem that some people want 15's and some 17's, so the obvious thing to do here is start a list of who wants what.

Just so you know, a set of 4 x 15's, 2 x 8's & 2 x 10's would come in at £1640 sterling, based on 60 fronts and 60 rears.

If numbers are sufficient for both 15's and 17's then they can both be put into production, if youd like both...FANTASTIC!

Can you please put your name down followed by quantity of F (front) & R (rear), eg 1. Jonathan Sage 3f 3r.

Forged wheels by the way are a big NO, NO....a 6 figure tooling set up for starters!

CAN YOU PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME BY COPPY AND PASTE.


15"

1. Stoner: 3f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the final product more closely approximates the look of the original Mangusta wheel
2.
3.



17"

1.
2.
3.
Last edited by group4wheels
Further to my talk with Joinathan two days ago, it appears that the same amount of wheels ( 60 ) would be required to launch a minimum production for Pantera GR4 wheels.
Jonathan is working on pricing right now, so get ready if price is acceptable.
Lead time for delivery would be around 3 months after prototype is validated.
15" Dia. Wheels:

1. Stoner: 3f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the final product more closely approximates the look of the original Mangusta wheel
2. *Mark Charlton: 2f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the same as above
3.



17" Dia. Wheels:

1. Jerry Bruebaker: 3f (17x8); 3r (17x10)
2. *Mark Charlton: 2f (17x8); 2r (17x10)
3.

* = Are somewhat flexible and will likely go with the majority size if only one size is made and are not likely to purchase TWO sets.
(If no "*" and your name is on both lists then you want BOTH sizes).


Mark
What is the story on the GP IV wheels. Jonathan or Patrick - can you update us on these? Are we talking true to form 10 and 13" wide GP IV rims like the original campi's? 15" diameter. Aluminum or Mag. My vote is Alum. for ease of use on the street and price. I would be up for a set for sure (price dependant of course). Please let us all know any updates.

thanks
Jonathan and I are talking about 10 and 14 x 15, aluminium, street or track day, plus an " enlightened " aluminium version for racing use only.
Minimum order should be around 60 wheels front and 60 rears.
As I earlier said, get ready for Santa Claus...
The wheels would be an exact replica of my original GR4 magnesium wheels as seen on Candy 2862 at the Le Mans Classic races in 2008 and 2010.
Wheels would be "product liability garanteed and insured, certified, numbered, ... A professional job.
AH AH AH... Darlin' , we need a 60 wheels (per type firm order... I won't forget you ! Let me get back to you very soon . I'm good for 2 cars ( 8 wheels in total, 4 per type ) that leaves me with just 56 wheels to pay !( per type, of course....that's 112 wheels, more than my small garage can take )Even if it's not overexpensive, it still means ALOT of hard earned cash :>Wink)
Let's put out an all points alert with the clubs, etc. I only stumbled upon this thread today by dumb luck.

If you post another thread above in the pantera section, I bet you will get more interest.

56 wheels on the wall, 56 wheels on the wall,,,

cheers
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
15" Dia. Wheels:

1. Stoner: 3f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the final product more closely approximates the look of the original Mangusta wheel
2. *Mark Charlton: 2f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the same as above
3. JMM3 2f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the same as above .



17" Dia. Wheels:

1. Jerry Bruebaker: 3f (17x8); 3r (17x10)
2. *Mark Charlton: 2f (17x8); 2r (17x10)
3.

* = Are somewhat flexible and will likely go with the majority size if only one size is made and are not likely to purchase TWO sets.
(If no "*" and your name is on both lists then you want BOTH sizes).


Mark
Mark, I may be mistaken, but those 10" 4-bolt Goose rear wheels you pictured in the early part of this thread closely resemble the Campy wheels used on the one-off DeTomaso/Shelby Sports 5000 racer DeTomaso tried to sell in the early '60s. And since that chassis apparently was the basis of the Mangusta, there's no reason those wheels won't fit perfectly. In 30 years, I've only ever seen a few sets of those rare wheels- on Steve Nanny's 'Goose Roadster and the Sports 5000 at the old museum, plus a loose wheel or two for sale here and there. Was the Roadster the source of your photo?
Yes Jack, it was the Mangusta Spyder. What a stunning car it is in person too. Although the wheels look VERY close to the ones on the Sport 5000, it looks to me that the Spyder wheels are wider and have a deeper dish to them (from the spokes back). Without a side-by-side comparison, I couldn't be sure. All I know is they are awesome looking wheels and look perfect on a Mangusta.

I was told there were originally only three sets of those wheels and they will fit any Goose.

I hope more guys come out of the woodwork to make enough ordering volume to get some copies produced.

Mark

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quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Steve Nanny's 'Goose Roadster


Jack, Who is Steve Nanny? Is he the prior owner of 8MA512 / Fred P / Greek .
man I LOVE that racecar! Hey some of you are active on the F-chat 'Mangusta thread', do you think Jon ought to mention this wheel topic there? I suggested it to him, what do you all think? There are a number of Mangusta's owned by serious collectors who are NOT active here, but are there, seems if you want interest - gotta let em know?....just tryin to help Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Denis C:
Who is Steve Nanny? Is he the prior owner of 8MA512?.


quote:
Originally posted by Mang:
Hey some of you are active on the F-chat 'Mangusta thread', do you think Jon ought to mention this wheel topic there? I suggested it to him, what do you all think? There are a number of Mangusta's owned by serious collectors who are NOT active here, but are there, seems if you want interest - gotta let em know?....just tryin to help Smiler


Yes. x 2
Originally posted by Mark Charlton:
15" Dia. Wheels:

1. Stoner: 3f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the final product more closely approximates the look of the original Mangusta wheel
2. *Mark Charlton: 2f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the same as above
3. JMM3 2f (15x8); 2r (15x10) Assuming the same as above .



17" Dia. Wheels:

1. Jerry Bruebaker: 3f (17x8); 3r (17x10)
2. *Mark Charlton: 2f (17x8); 2r (17x10)
3. benchu : 2f (17x8); 2r (17x10)

* = Are somewhat flexible and will likely go with the majority size if only one size is made and are not likely to purchase TWO sets.
(If no "*" and your name is on both lists then you want BOTH sizes).
Hi All,

I've joined up to F-chat and made contact with Daryl who took some pretty good measurements of a wheel for a project, something I need to be able to produce a better rendition.

To do an exact replica in either 15" or 17" (then it wouldn't be exact) we need to spread the word on all forums out there.

I will be introducing myself on F-chat tomorrow and will present something that may appease those wanting 15's...after I've presented it here 1st obviously. Smiler


Regards

Jonathan
quote:
Jack, Who is Steve Nanny? Is he the prior owner of 8MA512 / Fred P / Greek



If it's been sold, then yes- he's also the one responsible for writing the big check for the original CA restoration. Info's in a one-sentence line- pg 92 in Wally Weiss' book DeTomaso: The Man and the Machines, 2nd edition. There's a unique overhead shot of the Roadster, too.
I just re-read my order for 17" 3 fronts and 3 rears,
I don't know what I was thinking about. I need 2 full
sets of 17" wheels if they are to be made. Thank you.
Hi All,

Apologies for the lack of a recent update as I said I would, a change of ISP provider... and I'm still not on line, have had to come to my brothers to type this...but I got fed, so not all bad then.

I was always going to produce a 15" Campagnolo type wheel and my initial thought as previously stated was to make a wheel that would cover many bases and therefor make it affordable. I know that the Mangusta community is a rather small one and getting the required numbers together to produce a "Mangusta" wheel may prove fairly difficult.

I wasn't happy with my initial universal proposal and went back to the drawing board. I decided to put my short arms into my long pockets and realized that a new "rim form" would need manufacturing to produce that large 2nd step, small open section.

What you see below is a 8 x 15 and 9 x 15, both of which will be going into production and will be available for sale in 2 - 3 months. The 8" will be priced at £250 each and the 9" at £275.

Modern Tyre availability is not a problem for these wheel sizes.

There will be various offsets (back space) available so we can make the 9" sit where the 10" would.

Again, could interested parties please form an orderly queue. Smiler

8"

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