NEW PRODUCT – 351C Fast Water Pump Pulley

Comments welcome! ;-)

Scott, Sounds like a good idea to me. Most street cars spend most of their time at idle or at low RPM's. I am curious. Will the water pump over spin if the engine revs to say 6500 RPM? Curious.

Better cooling is the result of good airflow through the radiator and the coolant spending optimum time in the radiator.

Increasing coolant flow may not be the answer.

Just my experience . . .

quote:

Better cooling is the result of good airflow through the radiator and the coolant spending optimum time in the radiator.

Increasing coolant flow may not be the answer.

Just my experience . . .

Running the water pump at the intended speed of Ford Engineers is a good thing. Torinos and Mustangs of the era actually run the water pumps faster than the 11% increase that my water pump pulley will provide. Those cars had crank pulleys in the range of 7 inches.

I agree with your point that airflow is key. However, it is a proven fact that running the water pump faster at idle will help with low speed cooling. This will not correct a car with a cooling system problem. AGAIN, this is for low speed cooling. It's effect on cruise or performance driving will be minimal.

Tony,

11% at 6500 will spin the water pump at 7215rpm. Do you think that is too fast for the period of time your motor will see 6500?

Again, our water pumps are UNDER DRIVEN from the factory. Some of the other Ford cars of the era had 7 inch crank pulleys with 5.5 inch water pump pulleys. That is way more than the 11% my pulley will provide.

I am not reinventing the wheel here folks. I am simply driving the water pump at a closer speed to what the Ford engineers did on the other cars of the ERA.

Others have done a similar change with other pulleys with AMAZING positive results.

Scott

It is easy to throw out statements like "amazing " results. Or 11% faster than stock speed.

Also the Pantera's cooling system is nothing like a standard front engine design.

Where are actual temperature results? Without actual before and after temperture readings this is nothing more than hypothetical.

quote:

It is easy to throw out statements like "amazing "
results. Or 11% faster than stock speed.

Also the Pantera's cooling system is nothing like a standard front engine design.

Where are actual temperature results? Without actual before and after temperture readings this is nothing more than hypothetical.

This has been tested with very favorable results. Sure, this part may not be for everyone, but there are folks here having low speed cooling issues where this will certainly help. And 11% faster than stock speed isn't a number that is THROW out there. It is a fact! Do the math!!!

Actually, faster flow is generally better. The greater the difference in temp between the coolant temp and outside air, the better the rad transfers heat. Thus, keep introducing hot coolant rather than allowing cooler coolant to linger.

opposite for the block. Cooler coolant absorbs heat from surrounding metal better than hotter coolant. if you slow it in the rad, you slow it in the block also. Better to have cooler coolant entering the block rather than allowing hotter coolant to linger that is less efficient at absorbing heat energy.

Flow is the answer. I think Scott is on the right track with the pulley and am glad it is available to Pantera owners. If I needed additional cooling capability and had already invested in good fans, a smaller pulley would be a good approach.

Scott is offering something to the Pantera community that it has needed for 40 years. I shall offer facts & data to support this claim after the holiday, until then everyone have a safe & enjoyable labor day weekend.

Thank You JT and George!!!

Do you need to get a longer belt?

quote:

Do you need to get a longer belt?

Hi Paul,

There may be enough adjustment to use the same belt, BUT, if not, you would need a slightly smaller belt.

The stock pulley is 5.5 inches in diameter. The new pulley is 4.9 inches in diameter.

Take care, Scott

Scott, I know from experience that Ford Racing sells or used to sell an under drive pulley system for mustangs. I have a set on my 67 fastback. It states in the literature that it is only a track part meaning it doesn't circulate enough coolant at idle for street use. As a matter of fact when my fastback idles too long it tends to slowly begin getting hotter. If I hold the gas at a fast idle it tapers off a bit and then after a while it begins cooling. The convertible does not have this issue as it has a standard pulley system.

I too applaud you for continuing to bring affordable aftermarket parts to the pantera community that actually work and at much less cost than the other vendors.

I would be interested in conducting an actual experiment to see just what happens. I wonder what George has in mind?

quote:

I would be interested in conducting an actual experiment to see just what happens

Tony,

I would be happy to supply you with a pulley to evaluate!

Scott

I agree with John.
Nice job Scott!!



Ron McCall

Thanks for the efforts Scott. I had already gotten some info from George on what Ford racing had determined about pulley sizes, and this is one relatively simple area that those who've re-engineered cooling systems might've overlooked.

Since my belt needs adjustment anyway, I ordered both the pump and crank pulley. A little less weight and the chance to move more water can't be a bad thing.

Thanks for your work.

quote:

Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:

quote:

It is easy to throw out statements like "amazing " results. Or 11% faster than stock speed.

Also the Pantera's cooling system is nothing like a standard front engine design.

Where are actual temperature results? Without actual before and after temperture readings this is nothing more than hypothetical.

This has been tested with very favorable results. Sure, this part may not be for everyone, but there are folks here having low speed cooling issues where this will certainly help. And 11% faster than stock speed isn't a number that is THROW out there. It is a fact! Do the math!!!

I applaud and appreciate anyone that develops products for our Panteras.

Just as performance products are dyno tested confirming HP improvements, so should this product.

You are stating that by increasing the water pump speed it in fact reduces the engine’s operating temperature. All I am asking is that you provide actual data from your testing.

Important data would be the “Cleveland’s” water pump as stock or aftermarket? An original radiator or after market? The fan type and their placement.

But most importantly temperature readings (preferably a calibrated aftermarket gauge and sending unit) at various engine speeds before and after the installation of your product.

Assuming you did run these tests on one or more “Cleveland” equipped Panteras supporting your claim of reduced operating temperatures should not be difficult.

quote:

I applaud and appreciate anyone that develops products for our Panteras.

Just as performance products are dyno tested confirming HP improvements, so should this product.

You are stating that by increasing the water pump speed it in fact reduces the engine’s operating temperature. All I am asking is that you provide actual data from your testing.

Important data would be the “Cleveland’s” water pump as stock or aftermarket? An original radiator or after market? The fan type and their placement.

But most importantly temperature readings (preferably a calibrated aftermarket gauge and sending unit) at various engine speeds before and after the installation of your product.

Assuming you did run these tests on one or more “Cleveland” equipped Panteras supporting your claim of reduced operating temperatures should not be difficult.

Thanks 4134. We will provide that data shortly. I actually have offered the pulley to a few owners to do there own evaluation and then report back in order to get a nice mix of different configurations.

My apologies to the members of this community for the written conflict that was made public in this thread. I've removed the posts and I expect those involved to refrain from any further public confrontation. A person only needs to comment they don't agree with the design of a product or request further data derived from testing once.

The mission of this collection of forums is to assist DeTomaso owners and enthusiasts, to make DeTomaso ownership an enjoyable thing. PERIOD. They are never to be used for confrontation or humiliation of another member.

Thankfully I don't have to do this very often, and for that everyone has my gratitude.

-G

Ordered mine, will install and report..........